Sky -v- TalkTalk

Hi Guys,

[Firstly, many thanks to Mr.Saffron for putting me onto the ring wire tip! Well worth doing.]

Here's the situation. I'm with Sky Connect (BT Badged product) on their 8Mbs package.

I've decided to move to TalkTalk as it's the only LLU on my exchange and my current speed with Sky really drops off in the evening. (Can't really work out why - whether it's congestion or DLM nobody's able (or willing!) to say. Up to then I was getting about 3Mbs during the day, dropping to 1Mbs after 6pm.

TalkTalk reckon I should get 2.8Mbs, so roughly the same.

That was before I disconnected the ring wire from my master socket.

My sync speed has gone from 4.1Mbs to 5.7Mbs and I'm getting speed test results of 4.5Mbs which I'm really happy about.

So, if I go with Talk Talk will I get the 2.8Mbs they're predicting or will the benefit of removing the ring wire increase the speed to the same level I saw with Sky?

My router stats are:

NetGear DG834GT [Sky Firmware] V1-White

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5760 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 40.0 db 24.5 db
Noise Margin 12.0 db 22.0 db

My attenuation and noise margin have not changed since removing the ring wire some 15 hours ago - but am I right in thinking they will change as the router goes through the 5 day "training" period?

You should get the same speeds, and if they use a lower target margin it may go faster.

www.farina1.com/adsl

Suggests 7370Kbps under ADSL is you had a target margin set down to 6dB.

TalkTalk use ADSL2+ for their LLU, capped to 8Meg, which you may actually manage, and if you paid for their £4 boost you might stretch to a 10Meg connection speed.

The attenuation is a fixed figure, it wanders slightly but the training period does nothing to it, since it is a function of maths and physics.

The noise margin, if the line is uber stable and low errors may lower by 3dB after 14 days, note MAY not will.

The IP profile takes between 1hour and 5 days to improve, so based on speedtest results it looks like this has happened already.

NOTE: TalKTalk LLU has traffic management (which I think you call DLM), so some things may run at line speed, and others not. P2P is the one they acknowledge slowing down.

Many thanks for replying - and thanks again for your ring wire tip.

SamKnows lists my exchange (SDLSLNT) http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SDLSLNT

as having:

ADSL status:
Enabled as of 29/10/2003
ADSL Max status:
Enabled as of 31/03/2006
SDSL status:
Not available

Is ADSL2+ in there somewhere?

The fact the exchange has the TalkTalk LLU service means they are doing ADSL2+, capped to 8Mbps usually and have been since 2006, what is new is the £4 option to unleash the speed, which can see some people going faster than 8Meg.

The unknown is really how good it will be for what you do,

If your usage is under 20GB a month then probably fine, but if you are someone in the 30-40GB area, then I'd suggest not for you, since you are probably going to grow to use more and find you need to buy the £4 usage boost

You should really put some serious research in before making this move.

So long as you can accept a limited volume of download there are still some decent IPstream based ISPs around who will give you reasonable speeds. If you need a lot of download then the price you'll pay (in the absence of of of the good LLU ISPs) is a slowdown in speeds at peak times.

I don't really have many choices.

We don't have cable in our street and TalkTalk are the only LLU on our exchange.

My exchanges's details on SamKnows are here: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/SDLSLNT

I am nervous about moving to TT as it's an 18 month contract and I have heard some horror stories. But the reduction down to 1Mbps after 6pm from 4.5Mbps (which is happening with my current ISP) is doing my head in!!

Thanks Andrew - I tend to use 15Gb per month and will be happy if I get anywhere near 8Mbps so here's hoping with TT.

100's of other providers can provide service, if the problem is exchange based it may stay with you i.e. the slow downs, but you may get similar with TalkTalk even though it is LLU, since many will have a made a similar choice to you.

Look at other BT Wholesale based providers and see if they have the slow downs on your exchange.

Moving off of TalkTalk full LLU can be costly and take longer, so it may be worth moving to a provider who has a short contract just to find out if the problem goes away or not, and if it does not then try going to TalkTalk

Thanks Andrew - Food for thought.

> I don't really have many choices.

With the 15GB average download you mentioned elsewhere the world is your oyster. IPstream providers offering big download caps or even unlimited in some cases will inevitably suffer slowdowns but there are others who cater for low use users - NewNet Plusnet IDnet to name just three - do some research - for instance I've seen recent moans about IDNet who always used to get good press - that just shows how quickly things change and why long contracts should be avoided like the plague.

I don't want to bad mouth TalkTalk as I've no personal experience but I've seen far more criticism of them than praise on BB forums.

As kwikbreaks says. I would say of the three best to consider - IDNet, Zen and Newnet - that Zen 8000 Active may be the one to look at. IDNet have a 30GB package at a similar price.

Your cheapest "good" one is Newnet Home S but they count upload as well as download. The other two only count download.

However, as long as you went for the monthly contract then Newnet may be the best choice and see how it goes with regard to usage. I found speeds with them were 70%-90% of profile nearly all the time, the evenings actually being quicker than the week day-time. (Due to businesses going off-line).

Go to talktalk! i moved from Sky Conect to talktalk, im on 24meg, i see speeds around 15meg ALL THE TIME, and pings are over 20ms lower, from over 50ms down to 23-25ms

Are Sky shedding staff then?.....

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showprofile.php?Use...
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Email [email protected]
Name Ryan Arbuckle
Title fountain of knowledge
Total Posts 1122
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Registered on Sat 11-Oct-03 00:35:32
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In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

Are Sky shedding staff then?.....

Ouch.

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

im on 24meg, i see speeds around 15meg ALL THE TIME

To be fair, you've only been on TT for TWO DAYS

yeap and anytime of the day theres no slow down, unlike when on sky i hit 5pm and it went to 30k/sec

I work for an outsourcer, and i cannot get LLU here, and everyone knows their connect is rubbish now

In reply to a post by BuckleZ:

yeap and anytime of the day theres no slow down

Is this a joke?
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/showthreaded.php?Bo...

Also try plugging router directly into the test socket to see if you can squeeze out some more signal thus greater sync rate.