Return to Donor

Is this "Return to donor" regarding migrating a line from Full LLU back to BT's network a BT Retail thing, BT Wholesale or an Ofcom thing.
Or is it just a phrase that's come into common usage describing a line conversion which BT retail absorb the normal cost for ie. £40ish but other WLR3 providers can do but not call it Return to Donor (Conversion of Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) Metallic Path Facility (MPF) to a single Wholesale Access line £34.86 + VAT).
Can't find any "official" docs for it or does it have a proper name.

RTD put's the voice side back under BT control - Openreach. It is AFAIK returning full MPF back to the exchange switch. It's a name for the process and pre-dates Openreach. Doesn't apply to WLR where line remains with Openreach.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/products/llu/mpfsmpf... covers the territory, you'll find phrases like "donor circuit" meaning the original exchange switch to EU connection and "target circuit" as the LLU MPF equivalent.

I'm not doubting what you say, but surely in effect it means Return to BT Wholesale?

but surely in effect it means Return to BT Wholesale

Openreach run the switch and provide exchange services to Wholesale. "Wholesale Line Rental" is an Openreach product. BT Wholesale use it to provide call & rental services to others (eg O2).

Ah! Thanks . I thought WLR was BTW.

I thought WLR was BTW

it was pre-Openreach, and W for Wholesale the business entity can be confused with wholesale the type of trade (witness the Be fibre LOL )

Still trying to get this straight
Is "Return to donor" the same as a line conversion MPF to BTW @ £40?
Is there any reason BT do it for free or is there no charge anyway (not the same as above)?
Can any provider do a "return to donor"?
Reason I ask is so many times you see people saying that you can only move back to BT Retail for line rental under "return to donor" to switch between LLU providers or indeed just migrate away from full LLU back to BT based broadband.

Looked at the Openreach docs but too much of it is over my head.

Edited by deleted (Wed 01-Sep-10 15:21:12)

Is "Return to donor" the same as a line conversion MPF to BTW @ £40?

where do you get that from ? RTD would be to Openreach who provide WLR.

MPF to MPF transfer is in Openreach price list, but I don't know if LLU providers use it. They have in the past been quite lame for example not providing new lines.

I think he is asking about different CPs prices for getting back to WLR.

I don't know the answer, except that Plusnet certainly do take lines back from FMPF. So it isn't just BT Retail.

http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/pricing/loadProductP...

Could easily be missunderstanding what it means, happy to be put right.

That's the price they charge CPs.

"That's the price they charge CPs."

So is that the same thing as a "Return to Donor"? Sorry if these sound daft questions.

Edited by deleted (Wed 01-Sep-10 15:47:45)

Conversion of Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) Metallic Path Facility (MPF) to a single Wholesale Access line.
£34.86 + VAT

that is the return to donor charge to a CP by Openreach.

Got you so far.
In that case any CP can get Openreach to do a "return to donor" = "Conversion of Local Loop Unbundling (LLU) Metallic Path Facility (MPF) to a single Wholesale Access line" and pass on the Openreach charge or not.
Currently then BT Retail don't pass on the charge.
It's just a case of your chosen provider knowing what to do and not just arranging a new line if you move from MPF back to BTw.
So far so good?

sounds about right. It's the equivalent of paying to have a new line put in but obviously cheaper as the line exists but is in someone else's control.

Thanks to all, much clearer now.