isp paranoia need help please

Sorry if this has been covered, I did a search on dpi and phorm but couldn't find the help I need.

I was about to sign up for virgin media broadband when I noticed their acceptable use policy this lead me to the discovery of phorm and dpi which I had no idea about, I'm a novice when it comes to these things and can't believe they are legal.

I've been trying non-stop for 3 days to try and find an isp that do not use either phorm or dpi and the best I could find are Aquiss and Vivaciti.
I was about to sign up with aquiss untill they told me that as of Jan 2011 ofcom are to make all isp's have a faire usage policy. I'm not sure if this cap on data transfered means that they can view it aswell also I cant find any info on this new law that ofcom are bringing out which makes me not sure if its even real.

Can anyone help me in regards to an isp that do not use dpi or phorm as all of this has left me a little paranoid about the safty of what I use the internet for i.e. bank details passwords etc.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Edited by stevie_bear (Thu 04-Nov-10 13:59:27)

In reply to a post by stevie_bear:

I was about to sign up with aquiss untill they told me that as of Jan 2011 ofcom are to make all isp's have a faire usage policy.

A bit of cross information or our information has not come across right for you. There has been some talk for a while from various industries bodies, including the like of OFCOM and ASA to introduce some clarity to speeds and caps, and in turn present these to customers with more clarity.

Whilst we already do alot of this well, we are aware of a couple of products in our portfolio that need clarity as they currently list usage as unlimited. We are doing this from January onwards. I believe this the information you referring to, but appears to have come over badly from staff.

Phorm is long dead, but DPI is used by many ISPs to help manage traffic.

Edited by aquiss (Thu 04-Nov-10 14:10:18)

It would help if you post the link to what samknows says about your exchange.

What you say Aquiss are saying about Fair Use Policies doesn't sound correct to me. At least one of the major players removed the one they had on their top package some while ago, and I'm sure it would be back by now if it were required by OfCom.

I think there could be a misunderstanding between yourself and Aquiss about both your question and the answer.

I don't think any (Typo edited out - it used to say "and". Some may agree about me, but the "any" ia what was intended re ISPs) UK ISPs are using Phorm.

I do believe many are using DPI for the purpose of traffic management. I think that extends purely to the packet headers, to determine the type of traffic, and not to the content. I wouldn't worry too much about DPI if I were you. Phorm is a much worse level of intrusion.

Bank details and such should be encrypted by the site you are sending them to. Check for the URL having https rather than http on the relevant pages, and also some sort of lock symbol in your browser. IE8 shows a padlock icon.

You are far more likely to fall prey to scam emails or phone calls asking you to confirm your login details as a security check. Never even click on any links in those emails, and never answer security questions on the phone from unexpected incoming calls. Only if you initially rang what you are absolutely sure is the right number for a purpose that needs the question(s) asking, and perhaps if you then get a call back on that issue with the caller already knowing what you had rung them for.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 04-Nov-10 15:02:25)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I don't think and UK ISPs are using Phorm.....

Now there's an admission..........

Suspect if we change the word 'and' to 'any' then that would be more correct.

Phorm has dissappeared from the UK broadband landscape as far as I am aware.

No-one is using Phorm (or a similar company) - BT tried to attempt a secret trial, but failed.
Indeed, Phorm would likely be banned by the EU - presently it has tried both Korea and Brazil, but things look bad for them in both those countries.
Phorm is actually running low on cash, the share price has collapsed and it will be goodbye soon.


Many (all?) ISP use DPI (Deep Packet Inspection) to prioritise or rate limit different types of traffic, where limits are imposed they are usually dependant upon time of day.
This allows web pages and streaming to take priority over email and bit torrent etc.

Fair usage are weasel words that means we say that your connection is unlimited, but if you use too much we will cause you problems.

I suggest you choose a usage fixed limit which doesn't have a fair usage limitation.

Certainly NOT ALL UK ISP's use DPI

Many use traffic management techniques, but many of these fall short of DPI, i.e. a lot are simple single thread limits, or port based throttling.

DPI will mean that if torrent traffic was sent over TCP port 80 it would still be spotted as torrent traffic. While HTTP protocol would remain unaffected.

This can be achieved by looking at the headers for each IP packet a router sees,.

GIven the amount of usage some people want, getting a fixed limit that allows this then it can be expensive...hence why people still chase the odd unlimited deal, which usually survive a few months or a year or two.

In reply to a post by Stevenage_Neil:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I don't think and UK ISPs are using Phorm.....

Now there's an admission..........

LMAO - I will edit it . Thanks.

wow, thanks to everyone who replied here's the samknows link:
http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/LSUWAR

Are there any recomendations ( If that's allowed not sure ) of isp's that do not use dpi or that you think are safe to use bit torrents on. Feel free to send me a private message.

Thanks again.

Post deleted by MrSaffron

Define safe to use torrents on.

If refering to possible legal action due to uploading material without copyright holders permission, no ISP is immune to this.

If referring to simply which ones do not traffic management torrent traffic then its a very different matter.

Post deleted by RobertoS

On that exchange your best ISP by far is Be. The package to choose depends mainly on what their speed estimator comes up with. You can also get £40 cashback by signing up through TopcashBack or Quidco so long as you do that correctly. More info on cashback if you decide to go that route.

They do not use traffic management and their FUP (covering excessive use degrading the system for others) has never been invoked barring when there was a major cable fault causing significant capacity problems, when we know of one user receiving a polite request to cool it.

As MrSaffron says, no ISP will ignore a court order that says they have to supply details of the user of a specific IP address. On the other hand I'm not aware of any who supply such information without a court order.

Be do not supply email or web space facilities. I recommend against using ISP-supplied ones anyway. See my ISP-independent web/email page.

I was refering to ones that do not traffic management torrent traffic is possible.

I was going to go with BE but their website was not working properly, I typed in my postcode and it say the service was not available. Thanks for the advice much appreciated I'll give them a call.

but DPI is used by many ISPs to help manage traffic.

I'm no expert on DPI but any use of DPI is very bad. The government is going to use DPI as part of it's, Intercept Modernisation Programme. That means, when the government want's to, any data from your internet connection, can be reconstructed.

This is big brother. So I would avoid any ISP that uses DPI but in future all of them will be using it. Because it will be law. So at that point, time to ditch the net.

Shame BT will waste billions on upgrades, then for everyone to stop using it, because of internet spying.

http://beusergroup.co.uk/?id=446

If you go into the BE Usergroup IRC, that may be able to give you an estimate
http://irc.beusergroup.co.uk:8080/?channels=Be