Connection Drops Same Time Every Day

Hi, First time poster here,

I am having a problem with my isp connection where by, it drops at roughly the same time every day and then reconnects at the same time. This has only started recently (within the last month) prior to this, we have not had any internet problems with the house since we finished its construction 3 years ago.

Disconnects: 16:30
Reconnects: 19:00

Unfortunately, my ISP (IdNet) have been less than helpful. We have had 2 x BT Engineers out, both coming at 10:00 where the net runs fine. Now my ISP are saying it must be interference and its nothing to do with them or BT and if I request additional BT services, we will be directly charged call out fees!

My Belkin router stats are as follows:

Data Rate: 7616Kb Down, 448Kb Up
Noise Margin: 11 Down, 25 Up
Output Power(dBm) 119 Down, 198 Up
Attenuation(dB) 23 Down, 12 Up

The Router is running through the BT master socket with all other connections on Microfilters. I have been through all automated timers in the house and nothing comes on in this time period.

During disconnection, the router cycles connection (drops, then reconnects, then drops etc) and comes back up within 10minutes each day.

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated as this is causing serious working problems.

Many Thanks,

-W

Nothing to do with the ISP, probably noise on the line. You should monitor with routerstats and a MW radio.

As it appears to stick to a fairly set schedule it could well be something like a street light starting up which is causing RF noise. Getting it sorted is another kettle of fish.

It sounds as they are washing their hands of it,not good,the problem yoiu have is the time it occurs, the isp should be able to see you disconnect & re-connect, although that would not be sufficient to them as proof that it's something outside your control causing it,What have to tried in order to reconnect during this longish period of downtime,?

Output Power(dBm) 119 Down, 198 Up has to be a bug surely

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 01-Dec-10 21:43:50)

More likely a typo from the op missing decimal point.

Looks like a standard BT Max Adsl up to 8 meg connection, interleaved.

May I suggest you download and install RouterStats Lite and monitor the noise margin display just before it disconnects.

You don't live next door to someone who does arch welding during those times by any chance?

I can confirm they are the noise levels showing on the router, I will download advised programs and check tonight.

Regarding location, I live 200yards from my exchange (hillington) in a fairly rural area.

Theory lies with my neighbour, this started at the same time as he left for Antigua and I wonder if he logs into his office computer from there causing possible interference (or fax for example) although could not be certain.

If it is your neighbour logging in, he has very precise habits. Particularly if he is on holiday

More likely he has left something running on a timer. Do his house lights come on during those hours or something like that? Try the AM radio trick and tune it down to something like 600kHz and find a spot on the dial without a broadcast station then listen for an increase in background noise.

edit: Just had a thought! Neighbour's Christmas tree lights on a timer?

Edited by Andrew_W (Fri 03-Dec-10 13:42:16)

Hi Will,

Nice to know I'm not alone!! I've had exactly the same problem both this year and last, starting coincidentally with the reversion to GMT in both instances. The only difference is, that this year I have slightly better kit and instead of dropping out completely, my BB slows to a crawl. This year's thread - http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/3934657-tim...
and there was also one starting on 23/12/09.

However, the collective wisdom of the board hasn't come up with a diagnosis. As the problem is almost certainly external to my house, it's probably unreasonable to expect that it should - but if it's caused by BT network management practices (as I strongly suspect), I had hoped someone might know.

So: no help, only tea and sympathy!

Phil Harrison ('anonymous!')

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

However, the collective wisdom of the board hasn't come up with a diagnosis.

Maybe you haven't provided enough information to diagnose anything?

In reply to a post by Will_WJ:

....I am having a problem with my isp connection where by, it drops at roughly the same time every day and then reconnects at the same time....

RouterStats or similar should show any changes in noise levels etc.
If there is nothing inside your premises that coincides with these times (Central heating boiler etc), is there anything along the path that your telephone line takes, if traceable, that happens between these times? Maybe machinery switching, air conditioning, a chip shop's spud peeler etc etc?

Out of interest, what happened with your "electrical shop" problems after?

Right, I have downloaded RouterStats Lite and having ran for a couple of hours, prior to disconnects, there is not a single drop in my noise margin or connection speed, it literally drops instantly, then reconnects (cycling this until stable again).

I will run the software for 24hrs to provide a stable set of results, hopefully providing some info.

If anyone else has any other info, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

W

p.s NM is 11

Try disconnecting Pin 3 from the back of your BT master socket and ALL extensions in the house.

Pin 3 was used by old fashioned phones for the ringer and is no longer required. The wire just picks up interference. Expect 2 or 3 days for your line to settle down if this is what is causing the problem.

Alan Wood

Hi Alan,

Not sure that is the problem, as the house was only built a few years ago and the disconnections are isolated to certain times.

Having said the above, tonight I have experienced multiple drops throughout the evening, over and above the normal 16:30 - 19:30 problems. RouterStats Lite is still not showing any variables, just the drops and reconnects. Noise is staying the same.

I agree the Pin 3 (ring/bell wire) connection is probably not the problem, but it coud very well improve the connection in general to disconnect it as suggested. Don't cut it though.

Re RouterStats Lite, are these drops blue throughout, or is the down-line red? For better diagnostics I recommend a sampling interval of 5 seconds as well - that helps identify the type of drop.

Hi RobertoS,

Just an update, the DB jumps from 11 to 12 at the same time slot as the drop, all drops on the graph are showing in a blue line with no red lines shown in 24hrs.

Edit** Another Update: It appears that RouterStats Lite is showing a connection as the router has the following information:

Data Rate- 7516kb down, 448kb up
Noise Margin- 11 down, 26up
Output Power- 119 down, 198 up
Attenuation- 23 down, 12 up

However, now I can monitor the router software it self (as I am at home), it appears that an IP is not being issued at all times. Therefore I believe that some of the time frame RSL is showing a connection, it may infact be down.


Any more info or solutions would be great.

Thanks,

Edited by deleted (Wed 08-Dec-10 21:35:23)

Another update, over the past 48 hours, I have not had any period longer than 35minutes with a solid connection.

This is becoming incredibly frustrating at the moment.

So, can you get RSL to plot both upstream and downstream noise with readings every 30 seconds (or less) with a plot width of 3000 samples which will give a full day of data and then host them image.

If you have been plotting and small intervals you should already have image files stored.

please see linked images:

I have included a large snap shot, a reduced copy and the nm.

[IMG]http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/619/log1y.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6141/log2u.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/5198/nm1012.jpg[/IMG]

Edited by deleted (Thu 09-Dec-10 12:40:29)

Can you repeat the last one, using maybe 20 second intervals and a better scale on the Y-axis from 10 to 13

update with requested images:

[IMG]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3476/nm3n.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://img602.imageshack.us/img602/4991/nm20.jpg[/IMG]

Can you get the upstream noise figure on a graph?

Gut feel is that:

1. there is an external impulse noise source, so powerful that it kills the connection immediately, but then goes away

2. both legs are disconnecting at the same time (ADSL) will work on a single leg

3. router has a problem, either on the modem side, or the power supply.

How do I set it to show upstream noise figure?

Regarding the noise source, I cannot pick anything up on a mw radio (although doesnt mean there isnt a problem).

I can also go out and buy another new router from PC World. Might be worth a try.

With RSL running, Right-Click on the graph area and select "Plot Upstream Noise"

If the noise is just a "pulse" then you may/maynot find it on MW.

Try to borrow another modem and trying it on just the incoming pair with nothing else.

There is something drastically wrong, somewhere and you need to prove where it lies - in your house, in the street or at the exchange.



One thought - when it next drops - immediately (Within a second or two) try to call your neighbours phone number and see if it rings/engaged.

In reply to a post by MHC:

With RSL running, Right-Click on the graph area and select "Plot Upstream Noise"

D'oh!

Very intuitive. Useful - thanks .

And if you know how to drive RSL you can tweak it quite easily.

For example the 2wire2700HGV gives sync speed as do most others but unless there is a resync the number is not really much use. The 2wire also give forecast sync speed for the current SNR and that could be higher or lower than the actual. RSL can be set to read that value and it is possible to see it going up and down and noise varies.

I use the forecast value along with current SNR to time a resync to ensure I am just over a BRAS threshold and not at the other extreme where the SNR will go -ve overnight and then resync significantly lower causing a 500kb/1Mb drop in profile which then takes days recover. Currently I need to resync at around 17:30 or 05:00 or 07:00.

Or it is possible to get the upstream speed plot too.

Edited by MHC (Thu 09-Dec-10 18:02:42)

Turn off self healing in belkin routers.. It is usually turned on for factory default. It will reset your router every so often. I don't know WHY belkin added this feature, as it causes problems...

I'm guessing the OP has probably solved the problem (given it was 18 months ago)