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BT is starting to sell a new service that is likely to prove controversial because it gives broadband providers the tools to create a two-tier internet, where some video content would reach consumers in a better condition than other material.
The service devised by BT�s wholesale unit gives broadband providers the opportunity to charge content owners for high quality distribution of their video products to consumers.
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Anyone silly enough to pay for these 'higher quality' services has more money than sense.
Why pay for something which can be free? If no one subscribes to the services, and many complain about the quality, suppliers will be forced to rethink their business model.
~~~~~~~~~~
© Camieabz 2002-2011 - Quote this post and I'll sue.
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whats the point linking to a paywall site? you selling the service for them,? 
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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What paywall?
Pick some key words from the article (there's already a quote so you can easily do that), go to Google News and search for them, Google News finds the article, click Google's link, you read it for free (for now).
e.g.
http://news.google.co.uk/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=al...
[there are doubtless geekier ways of achieving this, but this one works for me]
Anyway, it's a BTwholesale offering, so just like BT CentralPlus etc, it's probably just another attempt to make it look to the unbelievably halfawake Ofcon as though it's not developed specifically for BT Retail.
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What paywall?
the one in the link, duh !
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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What paywall?
the one in the link, duh !
The link works for me...
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The link works for me... Are you registered to the site though? Requires free registration for 10 articles per 30 days.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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"FT.com articles are only available to registered users and subscribers." on a pop-up in front of it.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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The Content Distribution & Delivery platform will be placed in the broadband network so that content by-passes the ISPs backhaul.
so it isn't a two tier internet, its a parallel service.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Or it's just the moving of content closer to the consumer - very sensible when distributing large amounts of video. And if people want to provide content via your (BT in this case) caching servers then they have to pay for it.
LLU suppliers (and potentially anyone else licensed to provide services in BT exchanges) could actually place their own video content servers within exchanges (assuming there is room) and deliver direct to the customer - same sort of solution. Nothing at all to do with a two tier internet.
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Isn't as dramatic as you make it out, more of a point of view really.
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The Content Distribution & Delivery platform will be placed in the broadband network so that content by-passes the ISPs backhaul. so it isn't a two tier internet, its a parallel service.
Ouch!!!!
I haven't read the article, but unless that is out of context, (and also noting the earlier quote that it is a BT Wholesale product), it means LLU ISPs can't use it.
Hmmmm.
Secondly! It means BTW will have direct information on user content access rather than being just a carrier.
Third, what happens to ISP users' allowances? Is this traffic to be ignored for that purpose, or is the usage to be fed back to the ISP? Nice space for arguments there.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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The link works for me... Are you registered to the site though? Requires free registration for 10 articles per 30 days.
Does this work? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12112389
Edited by deleted (Tue 04-Jan-11 14:05:44)
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Does this work? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12112389 Yep. Beeb not FT though  .
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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Why is it an issue if it is not available as a service to LLU providers? As noted by another comment, they can provide their own solution if they wish, do I don't really see this as a problem.
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That's one point out of three, and yes LLU operators could do something similar. The benefits of scale available to BTW though mean the cost per user to non-LLU ISPs could for once be considerably lower than to LLU.
We already have Infinity being offered at what appear to be kill the competition prices, but that is a separate issue. Just things are pointing towards BT as a group being allowed to undercut the alternative suppliers, both LLU and non-LLU, with predatory pricing.
In my view much more important in the context of this thread are my points about BTW having detailed user access information going far beyond site IP addresses visited, how the usage is going to be accounted for, and the overall question raised by the Subject.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk
My domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost. Internet connection - O2 Standard.
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Suggest you look at existing practice for BT Vision, which has dedicated bandwidth allocated on BT retail broadband services and does not count towards the usage allowance.
I don't follow your point about "BTW having detailed user access information going far beyond site IP addresses visited"? All they would potentially have is an indication that certain traffic, presumably from a specific site or streamed from a dedicated server, should be carried differently in some way? Hardly on a par with, for example, the current Talk Talk malware site scanning "service".
I don't agree with the premise in the title that this is creating a two-tier net, simply seems to be offering an optional service feature that ISPs can take up if they believe that it will add value to their offering to their customers. If it effectively uses quality of service parameters to give me a better user experience when using a premium streaming service then I'd say it is a good thing.
In terms of your point about "predatory pricing", don't forget that the many service providers are able to query this if they wish with Ofcom, which can then investigate to ensure the same pricing is being offered by Openreach and BT Wholesale to all service providers, including BT. I think you need to give an example to stand up your point - I'd be surprised if any real examples of predatory pricing went unnoticed by the many service providers.
If you simply mean that BT Wholesale is offering new features to its customers (ie the non-LLU operators) then welcome to the free market! Surely innovation is to be encouraged? As stated in an earlier post, the LLU operators have the option to invest to add these features too.
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It is two tier because:
a) It allows ISPs to "charge content owners for high quality distribution of their video..."
and b) It ensures for payment "that bandwidth-hungry video can be streamed to consumers without interruption, even at peak web usage times".
BTBroadband
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"FT.com articles are only available to registered users and subscribers." on a pop-up in front of it.
They also seem to be currently available free, without registering and afaik on an unlimited basis, if you get to them direct from a Google News search, hence my posting earlier beginning "What paywall?". Maybe I should have included a suitable smiley?
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I agree it seems to not directly be a 2nd tier thing (ie QOS), however it may lead to 2 tier retail products.
decent isp's wont need this as they can deliver youtube iplayer etc. without the need of things like QoS and shaping.
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As I understand it, the main advantage seems to be that it can deliver content from cached servers to avoid the vararies of the Internet for IP TV etc. It seems to have been developed for services like YouView etc, so no doubt some o fthe LLU operators will be providing their own versions soon (Talk Talk given its involvement in You View?).
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interesting but this isnt new, my cable STB has 4OD and and iplayer.
however it appears to be more then that, this is what concerns me.
Content Connect, as it is known, allows Internet Service Providers (ISPs) that use BT's network to charge content firms for high-speed delivery of video.
I am a strong believer isp's should just be dumb carriers of traffic. ISP's already have consumers paying for the traffic, so they effectively selling it twice as well if doing this.
Edited by Chrysalis (Wed 05-Jan-11 05:49:37)
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I don't see what is different about the BT solution of caching video on edge servers to the practice of ISPs hosting news group servers that has been going on for donkeys years. The ISP hosts newsgroup servers to reduce the amount of bandwidth required to the Internet. In the new case they just rent a service from BT that does the same thing for media.
If that is a 2 tier internet then any ISP using local newsgroup servers should obviously shut them down because otherwise there will be an uproar. Or not... 
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my cable STB has 4OD and and iplayer
that's on the CATV side of life, rather than the broadband, isn't it ?
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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what happens to ISP users' allowances?
they are primarily used to limit demand placed on the ISP interconnects to BT, which this traffic will bypass. So it could mean an effective increase in allowance for other things, in the same way I think BT Vision isn't in the GB allowances of BT Total Broadband.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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"they are primarily used to limit demand placed on the ISP interconnects to BT"
And as a side effect of that, these allowances also limit demand placed on the BT interconnect between the exchange and the BT backbone. So unless this really is a content server per exchange (I'm expecting a content server per WBC interconnect site or whatever but I could be wrong), it will more likely *add to* rather than reduce the demand on that piece of network. Still, BT never allow the network between exchange and backbone to get congested, do they.
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It is two tier because:
a) It allows ISPs to "charge content owners for high quality distribution of their video..."
and b) It ensures for payment "that bandwidth-hungry video can be streamed to consumers without interruption, even at peak web usage times".
You mean like the current traffic shaping appliances installed in networks for years have been able to?
It's a Content Delivery Network, content owners have long had the option to pay more for better quality distribution, CDN providers sell their service on the quality they provide to end users, in the case of Akamai this service is ensured through making deals to host clusters on the networks of ISPs themselves.
It also requires PTA, which is only used by BT Broadband.
That's the real story here to be honest, this is a service produced by BT Wholesale with BT Retail in mind. It'll allow BT Retail to purchase CDN services from BT Wholesale, keeping it 'in the family' and if they save enough bandwidth on their MSILs allowing BT Retail to spend less on expensive wholesale bandwidth it may make PTA more attractive to other operators which in turn increases BT Wholesale's revenue further, however the volumes of traffic that need to be shifted to make this pay are huge. As in the kind of volumes that exactly one company shifts over BT Wholesale at this time
That's the story, nothing at all to do with network neutrality but the usual zealots that make the most noise piped up and diverted attention from the real story.
A product by BT, for BT, offered to everyone as required but priced and implemented to ensure that BT Retail are the only likely customer.
Cunning
Edited by deleted (Wed 05-Jan-11 18:29:09)
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whats different is the charging to content provders to ensure adequate delivery.
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I am a bit confused, the link given to me was for a STB which I assume goes in a tv.
every broadband connection in the country can access 4od and iplayer so on broadband its not new either.
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VM supply iPlayer to cable TV customers, not via broadband. Obviously cable broadband customers can access it via the web as well.
"BBC iPlayer on Virgin Media � Internet or TV
The difference between BBCi red button iPlayer & internet iPlayer @ bbc.co.uk
BBC iPlayer is now available in two places with Virgin Media � from the internet at www.bbc.co.uk and also via the BBCi red button from BBC TV & Virgin Catch-Up-TV. Each of these has different content, which is delivered to the customer by different systems."
http://www.virginmedia.com/customers/bbc-iplayer.php
effectively a VoD platform.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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One thing to note here is that 4oD and iPlayer content when viewed on a computer is already streamed from the caching/content storage servers of either Limelight Networks or your nearest Akamai caching cluster.
Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen Lite 8000 (I'd like to get in on the FTTP trial)
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
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Has everyone forgot that HomeChoice did this for some years, since 2000, i.e CDN per 3 exchanges if I recall.
Also the BT Wholesale product is a newer version of what is used for BT Vision really, i.e. rather than inject a regional node it is injecting at a local node.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In which case why is it any different to Virgin Media cable TV services?
You can broadcast for free (not really free of course) over the internet, or give users a proper HD - no jitter - feed by buying capacity (i.e. Virgin cable channel). Similiarly with Sky satellite channels.
If BT wholesale/retail were saying, hey YouTube, you can pay us for this CDN, or otherwise only your 500Kbps streams will work at peak times. Then that would be two teir.
This product is about delivering TV channels to a set-top box for TV viewing
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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TVOIP perhaps?
~~~~~~~~~~
© Camieabz 2002-2011 - Quote this post and I'll sue.
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Did HomeChoice ever work over IP or did it stay with tried tested proven and desperately untrendy guaranteed-speed ATM delivery (which required a rather more specific set top box than the $20 stuff from the ebuyer value range, and something similarly non-commodity at the server end)?
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Homechoice was ATM based, but what Tiscali and TalkTalk are doing with it now, no idea.
Which $20 ebuyer kit works with BT Vision then?
IP vs ATM is pretty irrelevant, as VLAN's allow for decent delivery of IP data
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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As others have pointed out what this does for the consumer is nothing new.
What is new is how the content is been treated in terms of cost and QoS, So an isp could take this up and they gain by not routing these services over expensive BTw backhaul however this wont be free so what they spend on it would go out of their generic capacity budget. Would they then deliberatly reduce available bandwidth to 4od etc. to sell new premium services? and we also come back again to this thing about charging content providers. Internet transit is neutral, once the traffic leaves the content providers own network thats it, its no longer their traffic.
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Content providers invariably do not own their own network, they buy a service from a hosting provider. That is not net neutral, since a hosting service will offer service A better service if they pay more, e.g. may allow them to use their more expensive peering links.
Net neutrality, as in slowing down website A because they don't pay the retail ISP is not good. The issue really is that video streaming (particularly VoD - i.e. no multicast) is expensive to handle for millions of viewers.
Providers can size their networks to cope and handle things in a neutral way, but that would put up prices to us the end-user. A lot of the net neutrality argument is centered on US networks, and the lack of retail choice for consumers, i.e. inability to vote with feet and go elsewhere.
At end of the day the internet is not free, a lot of stuff is available for free on it, but much of that content cost money to produce. Maybe people think you can start a YouTube competitor up on a $4.95 hosting deal.
Lets see what happens, chances are this will simply be a BT Vision product, and no-one has moaned about net neutrality before. i.e. the fact that some video may work better over that platform, than going direct to the providers website.
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I didnt say they own their own network, I said once the traffic lieaves whatever network they on it is no longer their traffic, it is just data passing around the internet.
Some contnt providers may own their own network (google do) others may rent transit. That is how they pay for their data been shared, it is how the net works. This is trying to change how it works.
eg. how would the owners of tbb feel if isp's told them they had to pay them for speedtest traffic to pass through their network even tho you already pay for your transit at the datacentre.
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