Xilo don't know full prices

I have been in contact with xilo and asked about the broadband and phone deal they have.

Well it's £23.99 a month but they can't provide me with a list of call prices and inc VAT.

How the hell do they expect customers to buy services from them, when they can't do simple things like, a call cost list.

BTW is opal still owned by carphone warehouse? I think they are and that is the provider they use.

Can xilo please stop quoting prices + VAT. VAT should be included for all domestic customers. Not many others do this. For pete's sake.

Opal Wholesale is owned by TalkTalk but wholesale services from it bear little relation to TT. In the same was as resold wholesale services from BT are totally different from BT Total broadband.

If you are looking at the Pro 16 and Pro 24 services they are not Opal. Xilo/uno have several wholesale suppliers.

"How the hell do they expect customers to buy services from them". Word of mouth recommendation of the very good service?

When was the last time you checked out the detailed costs of BT phone services? Far from easy in my experience. Vat with them can be tricky as well.

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 13-Feb-11 20:37:48)

RobS all I ask is they do something like this. http://www2.postoffice.co.uk/sites/default/files/Pri...

They can't even do that. I want to know full prices before i commit to anything.

Poor show from xilo.

Is vivacity any better?

Opal Wholesale is owned by Carphone Warehouse

surely Talk Talk after the flotation ? "The business division of The TalkTalk Group" according to web site.

Post deleted by billford

Language filter evasion.

Edited by billford (Sun 13-Feb-11 20:01:44)

Actually to clarify what you have written in the ticket.

You asked for a PDF of all call charges, we advised we did not have such a document as the product was, what we consider a "soft=launch" until a dedicated page was added to the site.

On this basis, it is generally targetted to existing customers on our forum - which is how you found the information as per your initial ticket posting. You'll see others on the thread are asking queries which have not been stated, which we are happy to do - but you were asking specifically for a PDF showing all charges that simply does not exist.

No, Opal (actually now called Talk Talk Business) and CPW are completely independent companies - They split in March 2010, as such, what you were advised in the ticket is also correct.

In regard to the VAT pricing, as has been noted here before, the site is fully compliant.

Matt

You asked for a PDF of all call charges, we advised we did not have such a document

You asked for a PDF of all call charges, we advised we did not have such a document

It's irrelevant in what document format you have it in. I used PDF as an example. Most companies have price lists in that format or another.

No reason why you can't have some document, PDF of all the prices inc VAT. Just like the one i linked to before.

Again on the VAT. You have to charge domestic customers VAT, so please include that in your prices. No other company has a problem with that and we can't claim back the VAT.

Brain short of blood sugar! Fixed. Thanks .

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 13-Feb-11 20:38:45)

I take this as " we offer telephony but we have no idea of the prices we charge"

I am sure this is not the case. Could you confirm that you do actually know your prices for telephony and these prices are available to punters at a particular web address?

I have just had a look on vivaciti and even they can do it better. They do say + VAT but they they show price inc VAT.

Look at this list. http://www.vivaciti.net/prices.php
Plus they even show a separate price for line rental. That is how is should be done.

This is clearly shown on the home page.

The Broadband Complete package includes your broadband and phone line rental
Monthly cost for this package is £22.00 + VAT (£26.40 Inc) with FREE Migrations

http://www.vivaciti.net/

Think they forgot to update the home broadband packages page, with the new VAT though. Lol

20% isnt hard to work out..... shouldnt even need a calculator

I know that but it's not the point. They should inc VAT. I don't want to mess around working out how much it's really going to cost me.

It's harder when you are looking at pence for calls.

BTW I am looking for Vivaciti call prices but have not found it yet. I did find this though and don't look any better than xilo. It is last year, so may have been sorted now.

few minor negatives so far.

I asked for a list with prices for any available phone services, call waiting etc a couple of weeks ago but this ticket is still open. I think info on the phone service is a bit sparse on the website. Had to get call prices mailed to me on a PDF

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/otherisp/3921031-my...

You have to charge domestic customers VAT, so please include that in your prices

if Xilo's primary market is business they're entitled to quote ex VAT as long as it is clear (which in their case it is).

I'm more confused by "Matt from uno" answering queries about Xilo, maybe uno is going to be their residential brand ?

Yarwell it's irrelevant. All domestic customers have to pay the VAT, so should be rightly included.

Any decent company will do that or show both +VAT and inc VAT.

Xilo i think does more residential than business. So that is not a good excuse.

LOL, go and boil your head you miserable sod!

Xilo/Uno are an excellent ISP and would still be our ISP if Sky hadn't offered the same deal for less. They would do well to not have you as a customer

so should be rightly included.

in your opinion. The law disagrees "Prices may be indicated exclusive of VAT at an outlet or through advertisements from which most of your business is with business customers."

Nothing worse that a fanboy.

I am a paying customer and am entitled to complain about poor service.

If you don't like it, you know where the door is.

But most of what they sell is not to business. So stand buy what I said.

Sorry, ment by.
Think I need a coffee.

I have wondered that for many months!

Still waiting for the "Launch"

uno and uno Broadband are trading names of XILO Communications Ltd.

Edited by deleted (Mon 14-Feb-11 12:42:57)

But why include VAT when its targeted for businesses which do not pay the tax.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

But most of what they sell is not to business.

Unless you've got a list of their customers, that's pure speculation on your part...

Please see my other replies. Xilo are not all business customers.

This is about the only thing they have done correct.
http://www.xilo.net/adsl_broadband/

They clearly show for business broadband + VAT and for residential broadband, inc VAT.

Pro 16 Home

£17.99 inc.
Pro 16 Office

£19.99 ex.
Pro 24 75GB

£21.99 ex

It works both ways then

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I am a paying customer and am entitled to complain about poor service.

The "complaint" you've made is not about your service though... it is simply about a service we might be able to offer you. As you can appreciate, two very different points.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

But most of what they sell is not to business. So stand buy what I said.

That's actually incorrect and I am unsure how you can make such a claim without knowing the full facts as to what percentage of our base is consumer or business? or which type of connections are signed up to the most.

In reply to a post by krazykizza:

I have wondered that for many months!

Granted, a little overdue but things have been really busy here and we're focussing on serving existing paying customers than get a website out the door.

If we don't gain a few users because we don't have a main site, (because it's not a high priority compared to adding new features to services for our clients etc), it's a loss we accept. As I have said before, we're not in a rush to gain customers en-masse and over the last 12 months we've done superbly.

We have new staff on board for serving customers but also an additional dev bod for system and issues such as completion of a site build.

Matt

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

It works both ways then

True.

But from March 1st you'll be able to complain to the ASA about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12435838

Do come back and let us know how you get on.

The "complaint" you've made is not about your service though... it is simply about a service we might be able to offer you. As you can appreciate, two very different points.

The complaint is about your lack of correct information on a product you sell. So it's still a service and a service you are very poor at. I don't know any company that don't know the prices of products they sell.

Xilo are incompetent.

That's actually incorrect and I am unsure how you can make such a claim without knowing the full facts as to what percentage of our base is consumer or business? or which type of connections are signed up to the most.

That is what I see on here with my own eyes. So would you like to tell us, what percentage of customers, are business or residential?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

That is what I see on here with my own eyes.

I doubt if many business users of any ISP use this site for support or information... they've got SLAs and different contact methods for that.

I'd like to correct you. We've never said that we do not know the prices of the products we offer to our customers - I believe it was you that has stated this.

What we did say was that we do not have a list of call charges that we could send you at this time - which is not stating that we do not know prices.

That is what I see on here with my own eyes. So would you like to tell us, what percentage of customers, are business or residential?

That is purely your assumption based on no factual information. No, I am not going to post information that ultimately does not change the fact that you have made many assumptions in this thread based on no actual or conclusive proof.

Matt

BTW I have now received a "PDF" file of all the call prices from vivacity.

This is exactly what you should of done and it has, inc VAT.

See this small snap shot I did.
http://i55.tinypic.com/2v3281i.jpg

[IMG]http://i55.tinypic.com/2v3281i.jpg[/IMG]

Shame on Xilo.

Shame on you for dragging your problems into a public forum when there was never a need!

Enjoy Vivaciti they will tell you exactly what you want to hear, it may be complete gonads, but they will tell you

Edited by Finguz (Mon 14-Feb-11 13:52:40)

There is a need and shame on you for supporting xilo.

Why would you say that about Vivaciti? do you know something I don't?

Anyway I am no longer interested in having phone and broadband with incompetence companies like xilo, who can't even give it's customers, a price list.

I don't recommend xilo/uno for any other services, other than broadband, which is ok.

a recommendation from an anonymous poster. Valuable.

Very funny. My comments are just as valid as yours are.

Are you a xilo cutomer? if not, then you can't complain

"you" could be 5 different people, including Xilo competitors, and as anonymous your comments carry no reputation to add (or subtract) credibility.

He is an ISPs worst nightmare, next thing he'll be ringing up tech support every 5 minutes because his calls to Lagos are being charged at Xp a minute instead of Yp a minute.

Yes "could" but i am not and you can't prove that.

What I have said here is true and is my own experience.

Most people have a brian and can except or not except,whatever they like. So lets just leave it there.

I have said what i need to and made my point. Xilo can learn from it or they can lose customers.

Now enjoy arguing amongst yourselves.

I often find it useful to find a piece of information that I can ask to be clarified on the phone as a route to assess the phone support from a company prior to placing business with them. The most comprehensive website in the world is of little use if that is all there is to a company.

But then the whole thread seems a little strange...

Never had to phone support. Read my last reply.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

I don't know any company that don't know the prices of products they sell.

Aks BT how much it costs to get an old style master socket replaced by a modern NTE5. Depending who you ask, and excluding it being for someone with disabilities, you will get various answers from £25 to nearly £200.

Xilo are incompetent.

Probably making more money from satisfied customers than you are from any source.

That is what I see on here with my own eyes.

Errr, no?

You see a lot of recommendations to residential customers and joiners on this site. As you do for nearly all the ISPs generally discussed. Business customers, other than SOHO, rarely come to these forums for advice.

Are you the same anonymous poster as the OP? If so, you've actually called us a few times, I myself have even spoken to you on at least one of those instances!!

Matt

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

There is a need and shame on you for supporting xilo.

Why would you say that about Vivaciti? do you know something I don't?

Anyway I am no longer interested in having phone and broadband with incompetence companies like xilo, who can't even give it's customers, a price list.

I don't recommend xilo/uno for any other services, other than broadband, which is ok.

I was with Vivaciti for several months before moving on. I know all kinds of things about them that you don't know. However, I'd rather iron my John Thomas than do you any favours!

Enjoy!

Edit: I defend Xilo/Uno because they earned my respect with their excellent service and painfully polite staff.

Edited by Finguz (Mon 14-Feb-11 14:33:19)

Most people have a brian and can except or not except,whatever they like.

Who is Brian ?

Except ?

Most people have a brian

I don't. Can I have a brian??

Now you take to attacking me on a spelling mistake becaus eyou have nothing else to use against me. Very very said

I ment Brain.

Can I suggest to mods that, if I keep being attacked about thing like spelling or the fanboys keep trying to provoke a confrontation, that this topic is locked. Thank you.

trying to provoke a confrontation

isn't that why you're here. Sorry, my mistake.

for what its worth matt I usually dont like to do business with companies that cant include vat on prices, as I see it as a way of deliberatly misleading people. Obviously I did sign up to xilo so I went against that but I really think you should do prices with vat inclusive.

whats interesting is in other parts of the eu the practice's here in uk of not showing vat inclusive is illegal.

I'd like one Brian, please.

I'm on a budget as a young Apprentice so do Amazon sell one?

Your not understanding are you? Your just a joke.

next thing he'll be ringing up tech support every 5 minutes

what percentage of customers, are business or residential?

Your wanting commercially sensitive information and Xilo have no obligation to provide you with this. i suggest you desist.

I think any self respecting ISP would decline your custom, you're more than a jobs worth.

On a side note, when we get customer requests (for power reservations anyway) They come in as Opal, and equipment in the exchange is labeled as Opal

I don't know if his Brian can do it.