Slow sync speed

Hi all

I have had nearly a year of issues with my PlusNet broadband due to poor line quality. The DSL worked well initially but the BT line has had various issues (tree damage etc). BTW to their credit, have persisted and it looks like the've finally fixed the various issues.

My *problem* is that although the line is now stable, my sync speed, and therefore throughput is pretty poor.

What is exceptionally irritating is that my neighbour also has a PlusNet DSL and the same hardware as I have yet his DSL is running much quicker than mine, probably due to him NOT having all the issues I've had.

Some stats.

Both of us are just 2 houses in the middle of nowhere, 7km from the exchange which is BTW only. Both PlusNet 2mb DSLs

Here are the stats from my Thomson ST585.

Uptime: 1 day, 0:36:21 (I reset the router last night)
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 1,248
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 16.89 / 126.35
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 16.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 63.0
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 16.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 555
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 32
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 28

My IP Profile is set to 1000kbps and my throughput is 800-900kps depending on whose test I use.

Next door syncs at 448/2176, his IP profile is 1800 and his throughput is c1600kbps. Which is what I was getting before all my line problems started.

My question is this: Will my sync speed restore to 2176 eventually (it used to be this) or do I need to persuade PlusNet (or BT) that they need to do something?

Regards

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 16.0

the latter margin is quite high and hence depresses your speed. If your line is rock solid it should come down and hence give you more speed.

You could try restarting the modem / router at 10am and repost the stats.

If it doesn't shift in a few weks you could ask your ISP to get it reset to 6 dB, which may take some effort !

In theory you maybe retraining where the router needs to be connected with no disconnections for 72hours -10 training period.

If the speed hasnt gone back up automatically after 10 days, then bt may have put you on a fixed profile because of the problems you've had. Then you'l have to call your isp and ask them to remove or reset your profile.

Edited by deleted (Tue 01-Mar-11 21:39:50)

If you are really 7km from the exchange, and you are getting 2mb sync speeds, I would be pretty surprised. On a 63db att, I would be surprised to see anything above 1 meg, which is what you are currently getting, but I guess it depends on the quality of your copper, pairs etc

Maybe covering old ground. but I am assuming the PSTN line is ok (no noise, crackles etc)? If not, that should be your first point of call, especially if the line is a long one.

Lowering the SNR may work... If I were you, I'd contact your ISP, ask them to request an SNR reset (I am also assuming this is on the older 20cn network). That should reset and recalculate the SNR for you.

If that doesn't help, you could ask your ISP to log a long line fault with BT. That will usually result in an engineer who should come and check the line, all the pairs, check e and d side for errors and maybe lift and shift it in the exchange. It should be noted that the ISP may ask you to check your kit before raising the engineer, as it is possible a faulty router can cause the rate you sync at to drop, but it isn't very likely

If that doesn't work, there ain't much more you can do. As DSL is not guarantee'd, it can be a real pain to get BT to do anything, especially if there is only 2 properties on the line. It may be a case of like it or lump it

Hope that's some help

Thanks all for the replies.

We are 7km from the exchange, but the line quality is (when there are no faults) surprisingly good. As far as I'm aware, all the line faults have now been rectified and BTW have just done a cease and re-provide (don't know if this is the same as a lift and shift, which they did a while back too).

My neighbour is less than 20yds from me and I've looked at his (Thomson 510) router stats, hence my post.

I think my current slow sync speed is, as suggested, due to the sheer number of faults we had on this line. At one point it would be a record for the router to remain connected for an hour! Its only worked reliably for 2 months in the last year (yes really).

I'm hoping that a period of stability, may cause a a reset of the BRAS profile and my line speed will improve. Plusnet have made it clear that they are unlikely to be interested in requesting BTW do a SNR reset. Actually, I do have a contact at BTW who is quite senior, so if it doesn't sort itself out, I'll have a word and see if he can do something (it was he who did the last cease/re-provide for me, which finally fixed the issues.

By the way, I used to have an Entanet DSL and it was definitely the best service I've had AND the best tech support. Wish I could get one out here in the sticks

Regards

I used to have an Entanet DSL and it was definitely the best service I've had AND the best tech support. Wish I could get one out here in the sticks

that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, Entanet services are available on any exchange.

I thought Entanet was only available on LLU exchanges?

You can Enta just as you can use any other isp

the opposite, Entanet run over BT Wholesale. They might have a bit of local LLU somewhere but if they do it's incidental.

We don't supply anything over LLU, only BTW network.

So, if your line comes from BT, you can get broadband supplied by ourselves

Our leased lines go over different carriers, but thats it.

Edited by deleted (Sun 06-Mar-11 19:48:17)

In reply to a post by FarmerGilesUK:

I'm hoping that a period of stability, may cause a a reset of the BRAS profile and my line speed will improve. Plusnet have made it clear that they are unlikely to be interested in requesting BTW do a SNR reset. Actually, I do have a contact at BTW who is quite senior, so if it doesn't sort itself out, I'll have a word and see if he can do something (it was he who did the last cease/re-provide for me, which finally fixed the issues.

Interesting, as a SNR reset doesn't require any interaction directly from BTW. BT have now rolled out capabilites to all ISP's on both 20 and 21CN to request an SNR reset on circuits. This can be done on the standard access portals that BT supply the ISP's. It doesn't really take much to. Probably 30 seconds work

If Plusnet are saying that BT won't do it, they may be telling porkies. The only thing that may be stopping them is if your line is dropping. BT do have restrictions and requirements, that ISPs are supposed to stick to with regards to resetting SNR. The only time you would need to get BT to do a SNR reset is if the SNR gets stuck, and won't lower via the automated system.

Hopefully, if the circuit is stable, and the sync rate remains stable, your profile should increase. You can check your current IP profile by running a BT speed test.

Regards,

In reply to a post by b_bliss:

We don't supply anything over LLU, only BTW network.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/llu/entanet

What you mean is no domestic services are provided over LLU. Some business ones are.

So, if your line comes from BT, you can get broadband supplied by ourselves

Only via a reseller, except for customers taken over by yourselves when a reseller has gone bust.

Our leased lines go over different carriers, but thats it.

Relevance nil.

No RobertoS, Enta provide no services over LLU, only BTW, SamKnows lists Entanet as an LLU reseller but it is incorrect, those 20 locations it lists are the 21CN nodes that make up Enta's network.

The LLU listings were there before 21CN.

Enta provide no services over LLU

I distinctly remember them using LLU for short range (EFM ?) copper based leased line type connectivity.

Sam says "Entanet announced the development of a small LLU network in October 2007. After launching at two exchanges in Birmingham, the network is now expanding to a further 18 exchanges nationwide. The network is used to provide Enta's "Ethernet First Mile" service, which bonds up to 40 copper pairs to produce a single 100Mbps circuit. "

Not for ADSL though, they only use BTW for ADSL. Obviously leased lines and other services can be offered from those nodes but we were talking about ADSL, just wanted to clear up the confusion

You may be doing so.

b_bliss's reply to yarwell was quite categoric. No LLU at all.

Neither yarwell nor myself is confused, just the OP, and yarwell's reply to him was spot on. b_bliss is the confuser here .

Hmmm I don't want to get caught up in forum "elitism" it's not my style, but he was clearly talking about a home user. You say relevance nil on the leased line bit that was mentioned but the relevance that Enta may supply EFM services to business users on an LLU network is NOTHING to do with ADSL to a home user or anything to do with the OP's original question, so you've contradicted yourself there.

Sometimes there is being anal just for the sake of being anal and I find it unneccessary and rude.

on the subject of being rude, "No RobertoS, Enta provide no services over LLU, only BTW, SamKnows lists Entanet as an LLU reseller but it is incorrect" doesn't exactly come over as a gentle insertion into the discussion, even if it were correct. Being so absolute it ends up inevitably being incorrect.

I was just replying in the same manner he had, like I say, there is too much elitism on here which is why I tend not to get involved. But when someone is just trying to help out a user asking for assistance and then another user comes along picking up on all those little bits and being anal for the sake of it then they need to be put straight.

Anyway, I'll leave you to discuss it amongst yourselves! The OP has had his help and we have established Enta provide no ADSL services over LLU, time for me to go do something more productive with my day.

In reply to a post by Jaxx281:

Hmmm I don't want to get caught up in forum "elitism" it's not my style, but he was clearly talking about a home user. You say relevance nil on the leased line bit that was mentioned but the relevance that Enta may supply EFM services to business users on an LLU network is NOTHING to do with ADSL to a home user or anything to do with the OP's original question, so you've contradicted yourself there.

Sometimes there is being anal just for the sake of being anal and I find it unneccessary and rude.

It is not "anal", (an unnecessary rude and derogatory term), to object to something stated as an absolute fact that was and is now confirmed to be incorrect. That can never help anyone. This response to the OP:-

In reply to a post by yarwell:

the opposite, Entanet run over BT Wholesale. They might have a bit of local LLU somewhere but if they do it's incidental.

was broadly correct and served the purpose. For b_bliss to wrongly refute that was almost certainly down to ignorance on his part of his claimed employer's portfolio, as well as not being relevant to the OP, something which seems to concern you.

The details have only been posted because of you won unnecessary and rude intervention in support of him. What dragged you out of your permanent home in "Gaming", apart from a couple of non-gaming posts in the Entanet forum, one of which was telling a reseller they didn't know their own business?

I would also point out that the only person here indulging in personal abuse is yourself.

Just to avoid confusion (which I may have inadvertently created), my Entanet connection was a business DSL.

WRT my currently (home user) issues, PlusNet have, under duress and rather reluctantly, reset my connection profile and I'm currently going through the 10 day training period again. Its probably a worthwhile exercise as I'm using a different router to when I first signed up with Plusnet. Initially I was using a Draytek Vigor2800 router which is reported to be rather intolerant of long/noisey lines. I then experienced a 9 month spate of line problems and exchange problems before BT finally fixed all the faults. I've tried a variety of routers and the Thomson Speedtouch seems the most stable with my line.

Like everyone, I would ideally like the fastest and most reliable connection possible on my line. I'm OK with interleaving to help with this as the additional latency this introduces does not affect the applications I use.

Regards and thanks for all the help and advice.

Let us know how it goes . For some reason it can take a couple of days before the SNR reset/retraining happens.

Hi all

Been in training period now for 5 days. Sync speed started at 2,400 and line stayed up for more than a day, now however, even though the line has a decent (9db) SNR margin, the line keeps dropping (or is it dropped deliberately at the exchange?) and syncs at a lower speed, including when the router was accidently rebooted. Is this normal for the sync speed to keep dropping despite fairy good SNR during the training period or does this indicate that I still have a line fault?

Should I power off/on the router or leave it alone during training period?

Latest stats below.

Uptime: 0 days, 5:59:34
Modulation: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 1,664
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 1.48 / 9.89
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 17.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 63.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 7.0 / 12.5
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 1 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 3,655
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 5
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 5

Regards

Have you any idea what time of day it loses connection? Overnight, or any time?

Do you have a fixed IP address, (static IP), or does it change every or most times you reconnect, (dynamic IP)?

Have you seen the Routerstats Lite tool? This is very useful for diagnosing your sort of problem. Scroll down this page past the full product.

Don't worry too much about the 10-day training - it isn't really tuning anything. See my explanation.

Looses sync anytime of day or night. Initially it synced at ~ 2.400 for nearly two days then dropped the connection, next sync was at ~ 2.176 for about a day etc etc. Sometimes the PPoA connection stays up so the IP address doesn't change. This is typical of what my line is like and looks to me like random noise events (REIN?) as the SNR appears steady. The longest time its ever maintained the connection is 5 days. I leave my router on 24/7. Have tried Draytek Vigor 2800, 2600, BT Business hub and Thomson Speedtouch 585v6. The Thomson has proved the most reliable.

I have used the routerstats tool - typically it'll show a more or less steady SNR, then bang the line drops.

Its pretty annoying...Last April I had a good connection, syncing at 2.048, bRAS profile of 1800, and seeing throughput at about 1600kbps according to various checkers. Then we had the trees rubbing through the line, new cables/poles, then another fault further up the lane, then an exchange fault. BTW The neighbour's line is steady at 2.176 sync, throughput at 1600kbps, he's been monitoring it for me. His line uses the same cable all the way to the exchange.

tbh I knew broadband wouldn't be great in the countryside but this has been a really frustrating experience (

Thanks for the replies.

I had similar but worse problems after a recent pole change. The cowboy contractors had made a complete mess of the new joints as it seems that the only tools that they had besides picks and shovels were a hammer and a pair of pliers. Some cables were apparently just loosely twisted together.
O2, my ISP didn't want to know even though they were presented with a ream of very convincing data, but luckily for me, lines to adjacent properties attached to the same pole soon failed completely and BTo fixed the lot while they were there.

Another bonus for me was that my dropwire, which was previously clipped to an incoming noisy mains, was moved. My connection has seen a vast improvement in both throughput, latency and overall stability since this was done. My router has now been continually sync'd for 24 days - It couldn't hold sync for longer than around 18 or 20 hours before.

I do feel for you but you are in a much better situation than me. This BT line drops randomly at inappropriate moments as many as 40 times a day, can almost tell the weather.
On ADSL up to two years ago with various ISP's the best i could get was IP 1250 with 63.9db att.
Spent many years hovering anything from IP250 to IP1000, it was only in the demise of Enta i could get over 1.4mg throughput. Even going LLU two years ago best achieved intitially 1.9mg but stable at 1.75mg with Att 75db.