BT Account cancelled - now I cant get another supplier

Hi

Just joined as left BT and wanted some advice!

My account has been closed with BT as of 1/3/11, unfortunately I didn't have time to get a new supplier before my contract ended due to there being problems with my address, after speaking to BT they advised that if I dont cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ends then my contract will be automatically re-newed for another 12 months, so I had to cancel.

Now when I try to get broadband and phone from any other supplier there is a problem with the line and they say they will have to re-connect the line, and charge, i have contacted BT about this and have been advised that there is a tag on the line which could take up to 30 days to remove, but that other suppliers shouldn't have a problem with connecting a phone but broadband will have to wait until the tag is removed.

I am now confused as to what to do, new suppliers are saying the line needs reconnecting and BT say it doesn't, where do I go from here?

Any advice/help would be greatly appreciated.

James

If you cancelled both the phone and broadband then you are in the situation where ordering another phone service is the same as ordering a phone as if you were new to the property.

You should have been able to migrate the broadband and move the phone services, rather than a plain cancellation, in short the path is meant to be simpler. Alas as you are part the way down the path you are stuck with it now.

1. Find who you want to provide your phone service
2. If this is the same people as you want to provide your broadband, they should be able to provide the phone first, and shortly after the broadband.
3. What you cannot do is sort the broadband out first, the phone has to be active and running to ensure all the tags get cleared up.

The reason BT say they can reconnect the line, is that they want you back as a customer and waive this connection fee but put you into a 12 or 18 month contract.

I f the line still has a dial tone then no re-connection charge should be applied, have you tried the post office? failing that going back to bt (line rental only) maybe as a option and go from there.

Edited by tommy45 (Mon 07-Mar-11 17:37:38)

Many thanks for your reply

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you cancelled both the phone and broadband then you are in the situation where ordering another phone service is the same as ordering a phone as if you were new to the property.

Yes, unfortunately I had to!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You should have been able to migrate the broadband and move the phone services, rather than a plain cancellation, in short the path is meant to be simpler. Alas as you are part the way down the path you are stuck with it now.

Unfortunately when trying to get a new supplier there was a problem with my address, my postcode wouldn't bring up my address but another up the road, when I used my phone number it just came back with something along the lines of, "we cannot help you online please call...........and one of our advisors will be able to help", even before I cancelled!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The reason BT say they can reconnect the line, is that they want you back as a customer and waive this connection fee but put you into a 12 or 18 month contract.

BT have charged me £30.00 for cancelling, something to do with the work undertaken by BT wholesale to remove my broadband connection and update the records for my line, they have advised a connection fee will apply if I return to them!

Thanks for your reply once again, I shall choose my supplier and take it from there, but should I be able to get a phone line before the tag has been removed, within the next 30 days, for example?

In reply to a post by tommy45:

I f the line still has a dial tone then no re-connection charge should be applied, have you tried the post office? failing that going back to bt (line rental only) maybe as a option and go from there.

Hi, thanks for your reply.

Yes my phoneline, through a normal phone, straight in to the socket, gets a dial tone, as does my BT Homehub, funny that though, PlusNet advisor asked me that the other day when I called them to try and get a phone n broadband with them!!

Yep tried the Post Office, it says, "We cannot confirm availabilty for this number"

Yep thought of going back to BT, but after charging £30.00 to cancel and an unknown fee to re-connect, I really want to stay away!

The tag is referring to just the broadband a phone line should be possible, BUT if getting both from the same company their internal procedures may be the issue

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The tag is referring to just the broadband a phone line should be possible, BUT if getting both from the same company their internal procedures may be the issue

Thanks MrSaffron

I seem to be having problems with both, I understand the tag now, but its the phone line I don't understand, all the suppliers are saying theres a problem with the phone line, like the statement above, I have a dial tone and BT assure me that the line is fine for other suppliers to provide a phone line!

i seem to be stuck in a corporate loop!

Suspect it is down to the address issues and things not tying up, classic computer says no

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

Yep thought of going back to BT, but after charging £30.00 to cancel and an unknown fee to re-connect,

If you have a dial tone, then there should be no phone connection charge.

What happens if you dial 1470 17070?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

If you have a dial tone, then there should be no phone connection charge.

A few people have said this now, and if you read below.....

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

What happens if you dial 1470 17070?

It gives me a completely different number to any I have had at this address, bizarre!!! I shall go and try this number on the supplier sites again and let you know what happens.

Thanks for the reply

Just been on to post office site and it is saying, "We cannot confirm availabilty for this number", again!!! AHHHHHHHHH

Right, BT have just phoned me and advised the following: The line goes from "Active Live" to "Active Cancelled", so it should be seen as that by all other suppliers, for some reason I feel inclined to beleive BT on this occasion, any thoughts?

They have said they will forward it in an email so will post up if required.

Yeap they try and avoid doing the physical disconnection.

The phone number as cancelled goes into the available pool, so you may or may not get the same number back.

Below is what BT have said in their email:

The line is now stopped and will show to any provider as a stopped line and they will be able to place a order to you to reactivate it. The only problem may be with broadband connection as it may show as a tag is on the line. This is where the 30 day clearance may be necessary. The new provider should be able to deal with this for you.

Correct,

When trying to order you should be doing the following:

1. Ordering a phone line just as if you did not have a phone line in the property
2. In effect the firms are looking you up based on address
3. NOT by asking them to transfer service from your old number to them - this old number is yours no longer

Some firms charge/some dont for the new provide.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Correct,

When trying to order you should be doing the following:

1. Ordering a phone line just as if you did not have a phone line in the property
2. In effect the firms are looking you up based on address
3. NOT by asking them to transfer service from your old number to them - this old number is yours no longer

Some firms charge/some dont for the new provide.

Thanks MrSaffron, so basically I need to act as if I have just moved property and haven't had a phone or broadband account before? So the dialling tone thing about if you have a dial tone you wont be charged is rubbish? Does it all depend on the supplier? Also I don't understand how I still have a number associated with my line, thats different to any I have ever had? Have BT removed my original number and replaced it with this one to keep the line "active"?

if you dial 17070 on your phone it will read out the number if it's on BT exchange kit.

The £100+ fee isn't payable when you have a dial tone although some will not confirm this until it's ordered (in case you wait 3 weeks and someone nicks your line in the meantime).

You can get a simultaneous provide of phone line and broadband to try to reduce downtime, might be worth trying. Not everyone does them.

In reply to a post by yarwell:

if you dial 17070 on your phone it will read out the number if it's on BT exchange kit.

This circuit is defined as (phone number here)

In reply to a post by yarwell:

The £100+ fee isn't payable when you have a dial tone although some will not confirm this until it's ordered (in case you wait 3 weeks and someone nicks your line in the meantime).

some sites are requesting this, for example, PlusNet want £49.99 to re-connect the phone line

In reply to a post by yarwell:

You can get a simultaneous provide of phone line and broadband to try to reduce downtime, might be worth trying. Not everyone does them.

I cant seem to get anything at the moment, phone line or broadband

EEEEEEEE what a joke, just tried with Sky, they are saying 5-7 weeks just for the phone line and a further 5-7 weeks for the broadband, this is getting beyond a joke now, would mobile braodband be any good for xbox live gaming?

None that I've seen.

In reply to a post by Finguz:

None that I've seen.

Thanks for your reply, and thanks to everyone else for the help!

Might aswell close this thread now

In reply to a post by yarwell:

The £100+ fee isn't payable when you have a dial tone

FYI: Even if you don't have a dial tone, BT will only charge £30 providing you take an 18 month contract for line rental.

In reference to www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerOrders/control/termsandcondi...:

Engineer visit: This may be required if you have an existing line that needs additional work (i.e. if the wiring/socket is damaged). The charge for an engineer visit is £130.
If your home has had a telephone service from BT in the recent past, the wiring and socket is undamaged and the line still has a dial tone, it's likely that this connection charge/engineer visit will not apply to you.

...

*£30 Connection Offer. Customers who require a new line will benefit from a £100 discount on the standard line connection charge of £130.00. Customers who are benefiting from this offer are not eligible for Line Rental Saver and must agree to an 18 month contract

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by yarwell:

The £100+ fee isn't payable when you have a dial tone

FYI: Even if you don't have a dial tone, BT will only charge £30 providing you take an 18 month contract for line rental.

In reference to www.productsandservices.bt.com/consumerOrders/control/termsandcondi...:

Engineer visit: This may be required if you have an existing line that needs additional work (i.e. if the wiring/socket is damaged). The charge for an engineer visit is £130.
If your home has had a telephone service from BT in the recent past, the wiring and socket is undamaged and the line still has a dial tone, it's likely that this connection charge/engineer visit will not apply to you.

...

*£30 Connection Offer. Customers who require a new line will benefit from a £100 discount on the standard line connection charge of £130.00. Customers who are benefiting from this offer are not eligible for Line Rental Saver and must agree to an 18 month contract

Ye BT have now said that they can connect FOC, but to be honest I dont want to go back to them due to numerous problems

But the info I have received on here has confused me even more, a lot of conflicting info and to be honest I am no further on than when i initailly posted!

Hence why I said close the thread! lol

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Mar-11 14:22:25)

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

But the info I have received on here has confused me even more, a lot of conflicting info and to be honest I am no further on than when i initailly posted!

Hence why I said close the thread! lol

I still don't know why you canceled it in the first place. when I was with Bt I was in a renewable evening and weekend contract, just before it renewed I got in touch with Bt and changed it to line rental only. No more contract. then I moved to another provider.

Thank goodness renewable contracts may disappear, not that it will help you at this moment

Thank goodness renewable contracts may disappear

Auto-renewing ones for phone/broadband services. Nothing to stop opt-in ones at the moment, as (without having read the OfCom document) I don't see Option 3 in John Hunt's article winning the day.

People will and do deliberately often enter into unwise renewals of expiring contracts in all sorts of fields.

isn't there a downtime for ceased numbers (3 months ?)

The problem being that BT is regulated has to do things, that other providers can refuse.
Thus what one provider says does not apply to all of them.

To be honest it is time to balance cost of downtime versus getting back up and running.

If BT can do you basic line rental that does not cost an arm and a leg for the calls, then go there initially, and review once minimum term has completed.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Thank goodness renewable contracts may disappear

Auto-renewing ones for phone/broadband services. Nothing to stop opt-in ones at the moment, as (without having read the OfCom document) I don't see Option 3 in John Hunt's article winning the day.

People will and do deliberately often enter into unwise renewals of expiring contracts in all sorts of fields.

The government is really scared of upsetting big businesses, that is how Murdoch got the go ahead to buy Sky and now the government is too scared to act on renewable contracts,


Sometimes it is not made clear about renewable contracts and other times if you want a service you have little choice.I wanted evening and weekend calls, so I had to go into a renewable contract. thankfully I make sure when the dates are coming up for it to be renewed and stopped it happening.

Renewable contracts should be banned, full stop, no ifs and no buts

Renewable contracts should be banned, full stop, no ifs and no buts

Agreed!

How about on your car insurance? What if you forget to renew after getting a reminder, then have a smash?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 09-Mar-11 14:09:42)

My car insurance doesn't auto renew. I pay it annually and they generally send me the new documents about 2 or 3 weeks in advance. If I am considered grown up enough to drive a car, remember to put fuel in it, remember to tax it, etc then I should be able to remember to insure it.

But, on the original issue of auto renewing BT accounts I don't have an issue with this either. They send me a letter, again in advance, to tell me it is going to auto renew. I either let it happen or I stop it (which is my plan when it comes up in a few months). Again, most people ought to be able to manage this and if they can't then they probably have larger issues than auto renewing accounts.

In reply to a post by Finguz:

Renewable contracts should be banned, full stop, no ifs and no buts

Agreed!

I find a renewing monthly contract on my mobile phone quite handy. Also our gas and electricity.

The quarterly one we have for the landline is no problem, and the annual one for the evening and weekend package , as it is a legacy one, only incurs a payoff of the remaining months at £2.something for the package, not the line rental.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 09-Mar-11 14:16:40)

I find a renewing monthly contract on my mobile phone quite handy. Also our gas and electricity.

I would suggest that these are not auto-renewing monthly contracts, but are just "contracts". They have a notice period and may or may not have had a minimum term, but they don't auto-renew they just continue on until terminated.

It is the renewing and adding a new minimum term that is the apparently controversial area, as the marketing and setup costs ought to have been recovered by then. But as OFCOM also did something about early exit fees the impact is probably much less now anyway.

The BT ones though are about getting something for free. You agree to stay for another 12 months and you get evening and weekend calls free - otherwise you don't. That is enough incentive for most to let it renew.

My auto-renewing 12 month Gas contract is even better. Just let it renew and you get free evening and weekend gas. Hope OFCOM don't ban that.

You should try the new unlimited evening and weekend beer offer...

mine does unless I specifically stop it as do most i'm guessing and that's with 3 different insurers in the recent past

In reply to a post by ian72:

You should try the new unlimited evening and weekend beer offer...

I'm not sure I'd like the same beer every night for a year.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by Finguz:

Renewable contracts should be banned, full stop, no ifs and no buts

Agreed!

I find a renewing monthly contract on my mobile phone quite handy. Also our gas and electricity.

The quarterly one we have for the landline is no problem, and the annual one for the evening and weekend package , as it is a legacy one, only incurs a payoff of the remaining months at £2.something for the package, not the line rental.

Each to his/her own. I find that I prefer to decide for myself and not run the risk of getting tied into another 12/18/24 month contract because it may slip my mind

Of course, for perfect people like Ian up there, who never make mistakes or forget anything ever, I suppose it doesn't matter either way

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

But the info I have received on here has confused me even more, a lot of conflicting info and to be honest I am no further on than when i initailly posted!

Hence why I said close the thread! lol

I still don't know why you canceled it in the first place. when I was with Bt I was in a renewable evening and weekend contract, just before it renewed I got in touch with Bt and changed it to line rental only. No more contract. then I moved to another provider.

Thank goodness renewable contracts may disappear, not that it will help you at this moment

I am sure if you read the whole thread you will see, but if you can't be bothered.......

There was a problem with my address and no other supplier could get me changed over before my contract ended with BT, I did try numerous suppliers a month or so before, thinking there wouldn't be a problem!! BT said I had to cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ended or the contract would be auto re-newed, I was told this on three seperate occasions by three different advisors!

Any way I have gone back to BT for my phone line, with unlimited calls, and even then getting Virign's top broadband, for example, it is still less than with BT, how ever now my new phone line is active every supplier, apart from BT, wants an activation fee, is this standard practice or is this because I may still have a tag on my line?

Now I just need to find a decent broadband provider, that shouldn't take long then!! I wanted to try BE but there "can I get it" thing is broken, I have emailed them asking if they can supply me on a couple of occasions now but as yet haven't had a response so they can go B@ll@cks!

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Mar-11 10:26:56)

Scrap that, just found out that BT haven't released the exchange yet, so all other providers have to rent stuff off BT, is this right or a load of rubbish? If this is the case then surely no other supplier can provide me with broadband cheaper than BT can, is this the case?

Dont think you've posted exchange name but a quick lesson on uk broadband

BE use LLU their own hardware in the exchange.

BT Total buy a service from BT Wholesale and then add their own rules on top e.g. traffic management etc to meet the price points and pay for TV adverts.

Firms like Zen, Plusnet and 100's of others also buy a service from BT Wholesale, but the quality of service varies from what you get from BT Total. Some better some worse.

You have fallen into the trap that you think BT have total control, BT Total does not, it is not another broadband provider who has the same access as the others to the exchange and services.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Dont think you've posted exchange name but a quick lesson on uk broadband

Exchange is Skelton, NESK, I can't get BE as there are no LLU services at that exchange and the guy from BE said, never or in many many years!!!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Total buy a service from BT Wholesale and then add their own rules on top e.g. traffic management etc to meet the price points and pay for TV adverts.

So are BT Total and BT Wholesale the same company/group of companies?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Firms like Zen, Plusnet and 100's of others also buy a service from BT Wholesale, but the quality of service varies from what you get from BT Total. Some better some worse.

So these companies all charge an activation fee? I have just been on to plus net and they want £25.00 activation fee, BT advised that there won't be any activation fee's, is this just an "admin" fee for them to press a button as they don't seem to do anything for £25.00? Also every other company has said i'll be lucky to get 1.5 MBPS, when with BT it was constantly above 6 MBPS, even during peak times.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

You have fallen into the trap that you think BT have total control, BT Total does not, it is not another broadband provider who has the same access as the others to the exchange and services.

No offence but it seems BT do have total control, I can go back to them and be activated within 5 days, free of charge and at the lowest price, could you explain how BT don't have total control given that information?

BT Total buy a service from BT Wholesale, just as Zen buy a service from BT Wholesale. They buy slightly different things, and the quantity that they buy varies too. i.e. peak time congestion.

BT Wholesale charge all the providers an activation fee, just that some pass this on, others absorb some of the cost, some absorb it all. But in the end you end up paying for it, e.g. signing up for longer contract etc

If you went to someone like Zen then you could probably be up and in running in 5 days - NOTE when BT says 5 days they mean if you order today, probably up and running by next Friday. Sales people are good at saying whatever gets the sale, and no penalties apply if the date is missed. BT Wholesale probably tells all the providers an activation is 10 working days, you can bypass this and pay around £100 for an expidited install that means it will happen in a very fast time frame.

BT Wholesale has the control, just that BT Retail has sales staff who are good at saying what you want to here, feel free to return to them, but then why did you leave and cause all these problems for yourself?

So in your opinion, MrSaffron, knowing the exchange what would you advise I do, the only thing I can think of as being the best and cheapest way is to return to BT? The only thing that annoys me is the connection, I do a lot of XBL gaming and the ping times are dissatrous sometimes and it makes the game unbearable, and that is my only gripe, you pay for unlimited and they throttle it back!!

Even the "comparison" sites come up with great deals, like from Orange, only to be told they cannot supply this line/area!! So every one I try either can't supply, or want an "activation" fee, which in all fairness I refuse to pay, unless they do actually earn their fee, which in my opinion they don't!

On your exchange avoid

TalkTalk
O2
Orange
Sky

BT Total can be OK, but suspect you are seeing local congestion plus the traffic management. Thus you need to accept paying more than people do in other parts of the country.

Consider Plusnet, yes they have traffic management, but it is predictable.
Otherwise looking at Zen and IDNet

Have ran a webserver off the end of a Zen ADSL line for some 10 years now, and hardly had any down time. So provider does make a difference.

Don't just look at the initial cost to connect, look at the cost over 12 or 24 months.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If you went to someone like Zen then you could probably be up and in running in 5 days - NOTE when BT says 5 days they mean if you order today, probably up and running by next Friday. Sales people are good at saying whatever gets the sale, and no penalties apply if the date is missed. BT Wholesale probably tells all the providers an activation is 10 working days, you can bypass this and pay around £100 for an expidited install that means it will happen in a very fast time frame.

I haven't tried zen yet, so will give them a go.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Wholesale has the control, just that BT Retail has sales staff who are good at saying what you want to here, feel free to return to them, but then why did you leave and cause all these problems for yourself?

I am now asking the same question to myself, and I have answered by saying, "you had a lot of problems with BT, they throttle your line speed and ping, on the surface they seem the most expensive, sales staff try bullying you, (glad im not a completly useless person as with the sales calls i'd have signed my wife away for 8MBPS broadband!!!). There are a few reasons, also when you look for other suppliers they seems great on the surface, but with hidden charges, charges because BT haven't released the exchange, other charges for button pressing etc. The cost just escalates, and the length of time from order to connection with some of the others is a disgrace!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

On your exchange avoid

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

TalkTalk

Wont just do broadband

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

O2

Cant supply

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Orange

Cant supply

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Sky

5-7 week lead time

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

BT Total can be OK, but suspect you are seeing local congestion plus the traffic management. Thus you need to accept paying more than people do in other parts of the country.

Yep thats the problem, traffic management their peak/off-peak times, great if your an insomniac!!! Is this not a form of discrimination? Having to pay more because of where I live?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Consider Plusnet, yes they have traffic management, but it is predictable.
Otherwise looking at Zen and IDNet

I shall have a look at these two

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Don't just look at the initial cost to connect, look at the cost over 12 or 24 months.

I work it out on a monthly basis, so plus net is £17.99 per month plus £25.00 activation fee, altough it is £11.49 for the 1st 3 months, but, they can only offer up to 2MBPS, which in all fairness is rubbish, 1/3 of the speed I got with BT, so may be a little cheaper but alot slower!! And that is the problem I am having, also plusnets has a 60GB limit, where as BT's is unlimited!

Right, even more problems! Zen: Phone number not recognised, postcode not recognised! So this again seems to be a problem with my address. IDNet, far too expensive and still limited downloads!!!

It looks like BT are the only ones who can supply at a reasonable rate, oh well, this has been a time wasting exercise!! lol

MrSaffron, the BT advisor said there may be problems getting broadband within 30 days of 1/3/11, cancellation day, because of the tag, will this be stopping other suppliers even giving me a quote/testing the line etc? As Orange and 02 both say they are not in this area!

Are you paying voice line rental anyone at this time?

I thought you were not, or if only just got connected then this is usual for websites to not recognise the number. The BT Wholesale database they access takes time to resolve itself.

The tag will be causing you issues YES, but it is not insurmountable, usually means you have to talk to people rather than rely on the web based ordering systems.

Orange and O2 cannot supply their cheapest products, but they do resell the BT Wholesale service, but cram so many people onto it you dont want it.

If BT is saying you will get 8Meg and Plusnet are saying 2Meg, and you used to get 6Meg then they are both wrong, and the 8 suggests the BT sales are very close to lying.

With no active phone line there is nothing to check and postcode checks are notoriously difficult.

Get your phone line up and running again, and then consider the broadband, you are going to suffer some time without broadband no matter what you do now.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Are you paying voice line rental anyone at this time?

Yes, I am now paying BT again, £18.60 a month inclusive of all calls

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

I thought you were not, or if only just got connected then this is usual for websites to not recognise the number. The BT Wholesale database they access takes time to resolve itself.

Line went live again this morning, was up at 7:30am, checked the line and it was live, so didn't even take 48 hours to get re-connected with BT on the phone, and, no charge what so ever!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The tag will be causing you issues YES, but it is not insurmountable, usually means you have to talk to people rather than rely on the web based ordering systems.

I have spoken to most and they all seem to have problems, even before I cancelled my BT account, they were having problems, mainly with the address not matching what they had, having said that, I have just received my census form, or should I say forms, and they all have a different address on them, 3 census forms delivered through the same post box, to the same house, 3 different addresses, so there is clearly a problem somewhere with this!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Orange and O2 cannot supply their cheapest products, but they do resell the BT Wholesale service, but cram so many people onto it you dont want it.

I have spoken to both these suppliers and they have both said the same, they can't supply me with any broadband products, again not sure if this is a problem with address or the fact they just don't want the hassle involved, as it seems to be a lot of hassle!!!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If BT is saying you will get 8Meg and Plusnet are saying 2Meg, and you used to get 6Meg then they are both wrong, and the 8 suggests the BT sales are very close to lying.

I dont get this, 6Meg is closer to 8Meg than 2Meg is, BT just say up to 8 Meg though, so how are they close to lying? I would prefer 6Meg unlimited for £25.60 a month than 2Meg 60GB for £17.99 per month!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

With no active phone line there is nothing to check and postcode checks are notoriously difficult.

Phone line is now active again

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Get your phone line up and running again, and then consider the broadband, you are going to suffer some time without broadband no matter what you do now.

Phone line up and running, ordered BT option 3, activation date 18/3/11, so hopefully up and running by next Friday, and, no connection/activation fee!

Well what have I learn't????? Don't believe everything you read on comparison sites, make sure you can move to a new supplier before cancelling and if it seems too good to be true then it usually is!! lol

Thanks for all the advice/info etc.

Phil 'The Badger' Marshall

A lot of providers do basic credit checks and the address is what will be causing the issues with many of them.

Generally takes a couple of days now for the database updates to proprogate now, but can be up to 2 weeks.

What do you think up to 8Meg means?

The truth is they can give you 0.1Meg and it fits that definition. Your phone line has not physically moved so speeds the same as you had before should be possible

2Meg is the default figure given out by checkers when the postcode/telephone lookups don't work.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

What do you think up to 8Meg means?

anywhere from 0.01Meg up to 8Meg

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The truth is they can give you 0.1Meg and it fits that definition. Your phone line has not physically moved so speeds the same as you had before should be possible

this is what I thought, but when checked while still with BT the best line speed I could get with the checker, using phone line and postcode was 2Meg, and that was with PlusNet, all others were from 0.75Meg to 1.5Meg, that was with an active phone line and broadband! BT, how ever, have come back with an estimated line speed of 4.5Meg, this is all I can go on and although I thought the speeds would be the same, I didn't want to end up with a 12/18 month contract on a rubbish connection speed, should've stuck to what I know!! lol

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

2Meg is the default figure given out by checkers when the postcode/telephone lookups don't work.

So they could even supply less than the default figure, once the order has been placed, then I would be stuck with a rubbish connection, oh well I shall just have to wait another year and see if anything changes

Rolls over and dies...

Broadband is a best efforts service - you get what you get in a location, so if on a BT Wholesale service all the providers will provide the same connection speed.

Performance as in speed you see on computer at peak times is a different matter. The estimates you get now are basically the different firms following their own rules and picking numbers from the air, based on two or three figures from a BT wholesale look up database.

if you told us the line attenuation that you had before you started this game, then we could give you an estimate that is more accurate than the checkers.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Rolls over and dies...

Broadband is a best efforts service - you get what you get in a location, so if on a BT Wholesale service all the providers will provide the same connection speed.

Performance as in speed you see on computer at peak times is a different matter. The estimates you get now are basically the different firms following their own rules and picking numbers from the air, based on two or three figures from a BT wholesale look up database.

if you told us the line attenuation that you had before you started this game, then we could give you an estimate that is more accurate than the checkers.

You see this is what really winds me up, why can't there just be a universal standardised set of rules in which all companies follow, I mean I think they would get more business and the for the likes of poeple like me and probably millions of others we wouldn't have to go through all this to find out whats best etc. Not sure of line attenuation now. So could BT Wholesale be "lying" to these other companies so it seems BT Retail have the best speeds, when actually no matter who I go with should show speeds of a BT level? I mean over the last year my average has been around 6.5Meg, which isn't too shabby, and the average for my area is something like 3.6Meg, I did 6 test's a week 3 off peak and 3 peak, my peak average was around 4.9Meg and i saw speeds of around 7.2/7.5Meg a lot of the time off peak, so, are you saying ALL other suppliers using the BT Wholesale, IE, renting lines from BT Wholesale, could and should be able to provide speeds at this level?

http://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

See what BT wholesale is telling them.

I am saying you should CONNECT at the same sorts of speeds no matter which ISP you pick on your exchange. How each of them copes at peak times is another matter, i.e. if BT Total was giving you 6.5Meg downloads at peak time, then begs question again why are you in the jumble you are now.

CONNECTION SPEED DOES NOT EQUAL SPEED YOU SEE WHEN DOWNLOADING STUFF

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

http://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html

This is what they say:

For Telephone Number 01*******91 on Exchange SKELTON

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 1Mbps. However due to the length of your line the 1Mbps service may require an engineer visit who will, where possible, supply the broadband service.


Our initial test on your line indicates that your line may not support a reliable ADSL Max broadband service, with current technology. However, an order for 250Kbps broadband speed will still be accepted, but an engineer may need to visit who will, where possible, supply the service.

Our initial test on your line indicates that your line may not support a reliable ADSL2+ broadband service, with current technology. However, an order for 250Kbps broadband speed will still be accepted, but an engineer may need to visit who will, where possible, supply the service.

If you decide to place an order, a further test will be performed to confirm if your line is suitable for the service you wish to purchase.

Thank you for your interest.


Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Note: If you have already placed an order for Broadband and now wish to change to a new supplier, then you will need to cancel the existing order with your service provider or your new request will be rejected. If you do not know who the current Service Provider is, please contact your new Service Provider, who would be able to help you to resolve this issue.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

See what BT wholesale is telling them.

I am saying you should CONNECT at the same sorts of speeds no matter which ISP you pick on your exchange. How each of them copes at peak times is another matter, i.e. if BT Total was giving you 6.5Meg downloads at peak time, then begs question again why are you in the jumble you are now.

So they are saying even less, hmmmm bizzare, so even BT wholesale aren't giving me the correct figures. The main reason was because of XBL ping times, sometimes it was like playing on a 20Meg cable line and others it was like playing through a dial up connection, and I mean like empty a clip in to someone only to be killed by them, watch the killcam and I don't even fire a shot!!! I know this also depends on the host, their connection, what they are D/Ling etc. But I'v been in games that are lightning, next game, same host, and rubbish speed/ping. I mean when doing a ping test it would come back with say 35 m/s, then do another one immediately after and its gone up to say 90 m/s, then do another and another etc. and each time it is hugely different, this is the main reason, you need a stable line for gaming which BT couldn't seem to provide. But if what your saying is true, and I don't disbelieve you, then no supplier could provide a stable connection, so yes, if i'd have known this before, then I wouldn't have cancelled!!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

CONNECTION SPEED DOES NOT EQUAL SPEED YOU SEE WHEN DOWNLOADING STUFF

Ye i know this

I'v just done the same test on my address and it has come back address not recognised, so even BT Wholesale are having problems with my address, I wish my landlord couldn't find this address, then I wouldn't have to pay rent or council tax!!! lol

So are BT Wholesale and BT Retail part of the same company?

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

BT said I had to cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ended or the contract would be auto re-newed, I was told this on three separate occasions by three different advisors!

They were saying that you had to cancel the renewable contract during that time, not cancel your services. You could have gone onto a standard non-renewable contract with no minimum term.

No, they are separate companies, part of the same group.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

BT said I had to cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ended or the contract would be auto re-newed, I was told this on three separate occasions by three different advisors!

They were saying that you had to cancel the renewable contract during that time, not cancel your services. You could have gone onto a standard non-renewable contract with no minimum term.

Ah right, the way they came across didn't seem this way, I told them I wanted a new BB supplier, when I had trouble getting one I thought the only option was to cancel and avoid another 12 month contract! I have learn't now though, but like MrSaffron said, I could have and should have avoided this, oh well, here liath the lesson, lol.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

No, they are separate companies, part of the same group.

Many thanks for that BatBoy, so in all fairness the details they hold for address should be the same, yes?

Why?

Why is that?

There are rules that control what BT Retail can see about you and vice versa, i.e. to ensure fair competition

Deleted - wrong post

Edited by ian72 (Thu 10-Mar-11 16:18:06)

Did you understand what I said about the databases taking time to update? The data returned will be dependant on whether the databases have been updated to reflect the location for this number.

NOTE: I am not saying that no provider can provide a stable connection, you might find that Zen who has less customers and offers a generally better quality of service might provide a stable latency.

The observed performance of BT Retail DOES NOT EQUAL what you will observe from other providers, it might be worse it might be better.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Why?

If they are part of the same company I would have thought they would use the same database? If BT Retail have my address correct and have done since I moved here I would have thought BT Wholesale would have access to the same information?

They're different companies as I said earlier.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Did you understand what I said about the databases taking time to update? The data returned will be dependant on whether the databases have been updated to reflect the location for this number.

Yes I understand, but the problem with my address and other suppliers arose before I cancelled, before the database needed to be amended, unless it just hasn't been updated since I moved here 2 years ago, in which case the information will be incorrect no matter who I want to use.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

NOTE: I am not saying that no provider can provide a stable connection, you might find that Zen who has less customers and offers a generally better quality of service might provide a stable latency.

For a much more expensive price, but like you said earlier, because of where I live if I want a stable connection I will have to pay through the nose!!

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

The observed performance of BT Retail DOES NOT EQUAL what you will observe from other providers, it might be worse it might be better.

Ye, I will just stay with BT now and put up with the unstable latency, it didn't happen all the time but more times than it didn't, the problems with the address, ridiculous cost's and other problems I have encountered over the last 7 weeks or so aren't worth the hassle of trying to move, I suppose it the price one pays for living where I do

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

They're different companies as I said earlier.

But part of the same group of companies, thats why I thought they would have access to the same data, but obviously not, that would be far too simple!

They don't BT Retails billing database is a different system to anything BT Wholesale has.

Very strict rules govern all this, and exist to try and encourage firms to unbundle exchanges in the name of competition.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

They don't BT Retails billing database is a different system to anything BT Wholesale has.

Very strict rules govern all this, and exist to try and encourage firms to unbundle exchanges in the name of competition.

Fair enough, so is my exchange unbundled then, as Virgin, for example have told me it isn't and thats why its more expensive, because they have to rent it from BT and therefore can't pass the savings on, this was told to me by a Virgin Media advisor?

Your exchange is not unbundled, some 85% or so of UK homes have access to at least one LLU provider, so you are in the other 15% or so.

Virgin rent from BT Wholesale, or more correctly from Cable and Wireless who rent it from BT Wholesale

This thread would seem to illustrate that there can still be a (conceptual) steep step in the learning curve when it comes to UK broadband.
I did find the diagram illustrations of TBB (or ADSLG as was) very useful in the early days.

OP problems have clearly been compounded by some confusion about the postcode / address / phone number associated with the connection. I would not be surprised if this area has had its postcodes revamped recently (many people do not realise they are using an old postcode if the post still arrives).

When you add the experience of the OP that the databases held by the suppliers are not always in sync, and that the line checkers are interpreted differently by businesses trying to make a sale, and that the implied sales pitch is headlined as "we can provide you a better speed than the competition", I can't say I'm surprised at the mess the OP has found themselves in.

I think more people understand the "speed" of your electricity does not change when you change your supplier (billing) , and perhaps it would be helpful to imagine the reselling of the line (at least to the exchange) as a similar concept.

Only once that is understood can one introduce concepts such as LLU and differences in quality / investment in ISPs networks.
(edit) do you think schools ICT lessons should introduce something on History and Development of UK Broadband services?

Edited by prlzx (Thu 10-Mar-11 22:14:32)

some 85% or so of UK homes have access to at least one LLU provider

AAMOI where do those stats come from?

TalkTalk annual reports

"55 exchanges are currently in the process of being unbundled whilst 700 are in the pipeline to reach the target of 93% of the population" currently at around the 85% mark.

NOTE This is not 85% of exchanges, but 85% of households

Post deleted by RobertoS

This one should make you all laugh, just out of curiosity I am still checking other suppliers just to see how long it takes for them to recognise my number etc. Just put my number in to Orange, yesterday it wouldn't even entertain my number and today..........There is an order on their system for my phone line, which I haven't placed as I couldn't!! lol

Does anybody know how this could have come about? I mean theres pushy sales teams but putting an order through when no one has ordered it is a little too pushy for me!!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How about on your car insurance? What if you forget to renew after getting a reminder, then have a smash?

I don't have a car, but I did ride a motorbike and the insurance did not renew, I was sent a letter to remind me to renew it, but they never di it unless I said so

In reply to a post by ian72:

The BT ones though are about getting something for free. You agree to stay for another 12 months and you get evening and weekend calls free - otherwise you don't. That is enough incentive for most to let it renew.

Yet the land line provider I am now with is doing the same thing with no renewable contract, after 12 months I will still be able to get evening and weekend calls, pay less than I would with BT and can move when I want, if I want to.

Renewable contracts is just Bt way of keeping people, if their service was that good they would not need renewable contracts.
Nothing about incentive, most of it is laziness. Bt knows most people will just let it carry on because that is what people do, only a few will say no and find another provider.

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

I am sure if you read the whole thread you will see, but if you can't be bothered.......

There was a problem with my address and no other supplier could get me changed over before my contract ended with BT, I did try numerous suppliers a month or so before, thinking there wouldn't be a problem!! BT said I had to cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ended or the contract would be auto re-newed, I was told this on three seperate occasions by three different advisors!

Any way I have gone back to BT for my phone line, with unlimited calls, and even then getting Virign's top broadband, for example, it is still less than with BT, how ever now my new phone line is active every supplier, apart from BT, wants an activation fee, is this standard practice or is this because I may still have a tag on my line?

So Bt got their way after all.

You could have just downgraded to a lower level and not cancel, that is what I did, I went form a renewable contract for evening and weekends, to just a normal line rental package that had no contract, that then gave me time to sort out another provider. then BT started bugging me to stay with them.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

BT said I had to cancel atleast 14 days before my contract ended or the contract would be auto re-newed, I was told this on three separate occasions by three different advisors!

They were saying that you had to cancel the renewable contract during that time, not cancel your services. You could have gone onto a standard non-renewable contract with no minimum term.

that is what I was trying to say, I done it myself that way and then changed to another provider after a few weeks

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

So Bt got their way after all.

they did yes, but other suppliers couldn't supply or wanted more cash because they rent the lines, so in a way im glad because I have learnt a MASSIVE lesson and I aint getting ripped off by no one, which is what i think the other companies are doing, "we rent the lines so therefore you have to pay more", fine ill just stay with BT, pay less and have less stress!! lol

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

You could have just downgraded to a lower level and not cancel, that is what I did, I went form a renewable contract for evening and weekends, to just a normal line rental package that had no contract, that then gave me time to sort out another provider. then BT started bugging me to stay with them.

Aye I could, which I now know, but the way the BT sales guy came across that wasn't an option, sales at its best!! lol

> to just a normal line rental package that had no contract

Of course there is a contract! Otherwise you wouldn't have to pay any money and BT Retail wouldn't have to provide you with any service.

Thought experiment: if you decided not to pay for line rental this month, would BT Retail be able to initiate recovery action? If the answer is yes then there is a contract.

About the only way that I can imagine receiving broadband access without a contract is sitting outside a library and using their free wifi spill-over...

--
Broadband Cynic

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

So Bt got their way after all.

they did yes, but other suppliers couldn't supply or wanted more cash because they rent the lines, so in a way im glad because I have learnt a MASSIVE lesson and I aint getting ripped off by no one, which is what i think the other companies are doing, "we rent the lines so therefore you have to pay more", fine ill just stay with BT, pay less and have less stress!! lol

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

You could have just downgraded to a lower level and not cancel, that is what I did, I went form a renewable contract for evening and weekends, to just a normal line rental package that had no contract, that then gave me time to sort out another provider. then BT started bugging me to stay with them.

Aye I could, which I now know, but the way the BT sales guy came across that wasn't an option, sales at its best!! lol

How wrong can you be?

You were being ripped off before because the important bit of the service to you, the gaming, was utter rubbish.

You are getting ripped off now because you are going back to it.

You have completely failed to understand the speed question. There are four (sort of) separate things:-

(a) Estimated connection speed, which is what the ISPs and the checkers are telling you, (and by the way there are a few different BT checkers giving different incorrect answers);

(b) actual connection speed to the exchange which will be the same for every ISP as the ones available to you use the same wholesale service. In respect of that, from what you have said yours would appear to have been 8128kbps. With luck, but not certainty, your new one will be the same;

(c) observed download speed which will vary 24/7 at different times of the day. This depends on the amount of capacity per customer the ISP budgets for and how many are using how much at any given time. So, (putting it crudely and with lots of other factors involved), 5 million signed-up customers at 100kbps from one ISP is 500,000Mbps capacity. If 2 million try to download at the same time then they get 250kbps each, compared with a connection speed (in your case) of 8128kbps.

If the ISP budgets for 300kbps per customer then they would get 750kbps each at that time.

At a time when only 500,000 try to download at the same time the throughputs above become 1Mbps and 3Mbps.

Because of all the other factors, basically the way the internet works technically and the way people use it the effect isn't as bad as that, but the principle remains. Some ISPs give lousy peak time throughput - like BT can, and others give almost perfect.

If you can handle percentages, a really top-notch ISP will give you over 80% of connection speed 24/7, a good one vary between 50% and 80%, and so on downwards. (84% is about the technical maximum due to packaging overheads - like the weight of a jar of coffee compared to the weight of the coffee).

As an illustration of the real world see this comparison of thinkbroadband users' opinions.

(d) latency/pings are affected by the same capacity budgetting but in a different way. If at certain times of day, (the popular gaming times?), your "packet" is having to queue to get through the ISP's gateway to go out to the gaming host, and the same coming back to get to you, then up goes the time taken.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

How wrong can you be?

About what exactly?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You were being ripped off before because the important bit of the service to you, the gaming, was utter rubbish.

Not all the time, but there is no guarantees that any of the more expensive suppliers could provide a stable connection, so in all fairness that is a bit of a silly statement, its like saying BT are rubbish but if you pay a little more you could gamble on a different supplier, I know BT's speeds are good here, the latency isn't always great, they are the cheapest, so in all fairness I am only getting ripped off now in your eyes, if I had known what I know now then I wouldn't have cancelled or even contemplated moving suppliers.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You are getting ripped off now because you are going back to it.

Like I had a choice not to go back???? What other choice did I have in your eyes?? I think we have been through them all during this thread!!!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You have completely failed to understand the speed question.

Really? Could you explain how you have come to this conclusion please?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

Of course there is a contract! Otherwise you wouldn't have to pay any money and BT Retail wouldn't have to provide you with any service.

Thought experiment: if you decided not to pay for line rental this month, would BT Retail be able to initiate recovery action? If the answer is yes then there is a contract.

About the only way that I can imagine receiving broadband access without a contract is sitting outside a library and using their free wifi spill-over...

--
Broadband Cynic

Ye I thought this but didn't want to say anything as I have seen some companies offering 30 day contracts, which is a joke in itself as there is a cancellation charge, how ever, a no contract phone and broadband package from BT wasn't offered to me and I haven't been able to find one, they would be great though as if they dropped your connection or it slowed right down you could just pay them like £5 and say thats all you think its worth!! lol Are you listening broadband suppliers!!! lol

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

To quote MrSaffron

Rolls over and dies...

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 12-Mar-11 11:29:45)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

To quote MrSaffron

Rolls over and dies...

One thing to say to you RobertoS, TJ!

I know you probably won't like this, but I've read the 1st 6 pages of this farce, and farce it is!!

I hope for your own sake and sanity you've learned some lessons from your mistakes, and there's one mistake that, up to page 6 at least, you still seem to have done nothing about!

From what I've read, up to page 6, there is a huge problem re your address, which has been confirmed by the fact that you've received 3 census forms. You've mentioned this time after time, it's staring you in the face, yet you appear to have done nothing about it!!!

Obviously, in your case your precise address won't have any effect on the technicalities of phone lines and broadband service, but it can and will impinge on various aspects of your life, so quite frankly, you need to get it sorted, and sorted asap!

Stop fannying about man and get the basics sorted first.

In reply to a post by Supatramp:

I know you probably won't like this, but I've read the 1st 6 pages of this farce, and farce it is!!

I hope for your own sake and sanity you've learned some lessons from your mistakes, and there's one mistake that, up to page 6 at least, you still seem to have done nothing about!

From what I've read, up to page 6, there is a huge problem re your address, which has been confirmed by the fact that you've received 3 census forms. You've mentioned this time after time, it's staring you in the face, yet you appear to have done nothing about it!!!

Obviously, in your case your precise address won't have any effect on the technicalities of phone lines and broadband service, but it can and will impinge on various aspects of your life, so quite frankly, you need to get it sorted, and sorted asap!

Stop fannying about man and get the basics sorted first.

I have learn't some big lessons, yes. R.E. my address, I have done the best I can with that, the post office have confirmed my address as it is, the local council have it down as a different address, I have spoken to them and as far as they are concerned the address is correct on their systems and there is nothing they can do, I guess if thats the case they may think I am trying to pull a fast one, on most of the other suppliers sites they have a different address again, but alas, I don't have time to contact these people just to try and get a "better deal", which I can not anyway due to my exchange not being unbundled. Any how we shall see what happens on Friday when I, hopefully, get re-connected. Its all good though, all now saying my line speed should be around 7.5Meg, better than they were saying before hand!

Over and out

BTbroadband connections are attrocious for gaming and until you've tried some of the better alternatives you won't appreciate just how bad BT is in that respect

In reply to a post by Finguz:

BTbroadband connections are attrocious for gaming and until you've tried some of the better alternatives you won't appreciate just how bad BT is in that respect

Aye and when I can I will let you know what I think, but at this time I only have the option of BT!

LOL?

BT own the network and charge others to use it, but your choice is much wider than BT. Try some good ISP's like AAISP and Zen if gaming is important to you. If it isn't then BTbroadband will be fine.

But don't make out that you have no choice other than BT because you have a huge choice. You may be limited to BT's network, but not all ISP's using BT's network are equal!

In reply to a post by Finguz:

LOL?

BT own the network and charge others to use it, but your choice is much wider than BT. Try some good ISP's like AAISP and Zen if gaming is important to you. If it isn't then BTbroadband will be fine.

But don't make out that you have no choice other than BT because you have a huge choice. You may be limited to BT's network, but not all ISP's using BT's network are equal!

Zen too expensive and limited, as posted before! Just looked at AAISP, again limited and expensive.

Oh and I wouldn't say 2 is a HUGE choice!!

Thanks for your input though! Is there a line checker for AAISP?

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

Oh and I wouldn't say 2 is a HUGE choice!!

Try this list. You can get the vast majority of those, plus many that aren't listed, plus probably as many unlisted resellers such as ADSL24, vivacti and xilo/uno that we know of here.

No, two isn't a huge choice but I picked the first two that popped into my head. Hence my saying "Try some good isp's like..."

Have a look at Robertos list to see the huge choice!

Besides, you only need one

Edited by Finguz (Thu 17-Mar-11 13:34:28)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by TheBadgerUK:

Oh and I wouldn't say 2 is a HUGE choice!!

Try this list. You can get the vast majority of those, plus many that aren't listed, plus probably as many unlisted resellers such as ADSL24, vivacti and xilo/uno that we know of here.

Ye thanks for the list, how ever, I have checked most of them out on there, previously, and the problems I am having are: Can't supply to my phone number/address/postcode, too expensive and not unlimited.

As I stated earlier in this thread: I am not willing to pay "over the odds" for a connection that has no guaratees to be faster or more stable than BT, I am not saying there aren't other suppliers I can use, its more of I won't because they are too expensive or limited, the only companies I have found to be cheaper than BT can't supply me with broadband, so until I find a supplier that is a) cheaper or on a par with BT, and B) unlimited, then yes I am stuck with BT.

Any how, my broadband is back on tomorrow, with BT, so i'll just wait and see what happens with the connection then.

Getting decent speeds and ping times, gaming is great, how ever, it has only been up 6 days so will wait till after the 10 days settling in period before singing BT's praises too loud!! lol I do have a query though, when testing the speed with speedtesters, they are all giving me between 5.9Mbps & 6.9Mbps, how ever, when using TBB speed test it is giving much lower speeds, like 4.5Mbps and lower, it has given me above 6Mbps once but the speed seems to be alot lower on this test, oh and on channel 5's the gadget show speed test which I see is help from TBB, is this a cause for concern as the test's I have been doing have been done straight after one another and the difference between the other test's have been minimal?

Getting decent speeds and ping times, gaming is great

Given that, speed tests are irrelevant! They are really only for interest/fun in normal running, or diagnosis if there seems to be a problem in real use.

There are basically only three commonly used speed testers.

The BT Performance tester which is the only one they accept for diagnostic/problem reports, the tbb one which on ADSLx I have always found corresponds closely to the BT results, and the Ookla-based ones such as speedtest.net which in general report higher speeds.

Ookla takes a sample of speeds observed during the test and discards a lot of slower ones. It is biased towards the peak speed attained.

tbb and I think BT take a given amount of download and average out the speed overall. The BT one is multi-streamed so can give better results than the single-stream tbb one, but in real life it is debatable which is more appropriate. Torrents multi-stream so the BT one is right. A lot of websites probably single-stream so tbb is more representative.

If you download something like NetWorx you can get a real-time graph showing the peaks and troughs during the above speed tests and get a better feel for the quality of your service.

Back to the quote above and the first paragraph of this reply .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

tbb and I think BT take a given amount of download and average out the speed overall. The BT one is multi-streamed so can give better results than the single-stream tbb one, but in real life it is debatable which is more appropriate. Torrents multi-stream so the BT one is right. A lot of websites probably single-stream so tbb is more representative.

That explains a lot, cheers RobertoS, BT Speedtester has been consistent and TBB has been up and down, I have put this down to the 10 day period though,

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you download something like NetWorx you can get a real-time graph showing the peaks and troughs during the above speed tests and get a better feel for the quality of your service.

Back to the quote above and the first paragraph of this reply .

Champion, I shall have a look at this now

One other thing, previously I was using BT's Home Hub 2, they have sent me out a "new" router that doesn't deal with calls, could this be why I am seeing better pings and a more consistent speed?

No idea, but I think the HH3 is supposed to be better than the HH2 for wireless.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

No idea, but I think the HH3 is supposed to be better than the HH2 for wireless.

I haven't tried the HH3 yet, so can't comment on that, how ever, everything bar my laptop is hard wired, so wireless isn't really an issue.