PO, Vodaphone, Orange

I believe these are all White label BT services. What I want to know is whether that is BT Wholesale or BT (Retail) Broadband.

I used to think it was BT Wholesale but couldn't understand how that would work in practice. These days I'm swinging to thinking it is a wholesale service from BT (Retail) Broadband, in the same way as Entanet and Daisy provide services to virtual ISPs.

Can anyone clarify this for me please?

As far as I am aware, my Post Office Broadband & phone service, is managed and maintained completely by BT Wholesale, this leaves providers free to focus on the sales and marketing of products.

White Label Managed Services remove the need for communications providers to build, support and maintain their own networks, products, office systems and customer support facilities.

Wot about Orange LLU?

In reply to a post by Banger:

Wot about Orange LLU?

The question arose precisely because I was thinking about exactly what is replacing Orange LLU.

Or weren't you aware that that is dead? Orange LLU customers are at currently being transferred to the White Label service I ask about.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 27-Apr-11 21:38:26)

I wasn't aware of the transfer with my own exchange just recently getting Orange LLU on Samknows so guess that is now incorrect.

Yes, there does seem to be a degree of confusion wrt what samknows is reporting. Several recent newly-LLU'ed exchanges, which has to be rubbish.

It could be some sort of auto system in samknows that hasn't been killed. So a non-Orange-LLU exchange where the Orange non-LLU service is transferred to BT may be getting notified by an auto system as now LLU'ed, as it is no longer a standard non-LLU connection.

I'm not sure how clear that is. The point is that Orange as a true ISP with its own BT Centrals and LLU service is no longer. So the fact customers on a given exchange such as yours have been moved off Centrals to another service may be being construed by samknows as that exchange having been LLU'ed.

SamKnows is not SamProphesies!

Sorry for confusion somewhere in the back of my mind I remember Orange getting Tiscali or was it Talk Talk. Talk Talk LLU already on my exchange and Orange LLU quite recently. I think I'm getting myself in a muddle with LLU owners.

You are indeed confused.

Orange is Orange, actually belonging to Telecom France IIRC. Nothing to do with Tiscali or Talktalk.

Tiscali bought several companies such as Nildram and Pipex, and recently got bought by TalkTalk. Tiscali customers are being or maybe now all have been moved over to TalkTalk.

Orange is giving up its LLU operation and customers are being moved to a BT service. Plus I think its non-LLU customers are going onto the same BT service instead of their current one.

& they are not even the same type of LLUs.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Plus I think its non-LLU customers are going onto the same BT service instead of their current one.

Orange non-LLU customers will either remain on IPStream or be moved to WBC if their exchange is 21CN.

It is highly unlikely anyone will be moved to IPStream for any length of time. I don't know if BT still have any Centrals or Central Pluses, but I can't imagine they will not be phasing them all out in favour of IPSC for non-WBC exchanges.

All BT Wholesale based, nothing to do with BT Retail

Thanks Andrew.

That raises a question about how Orange will be handled for the non-WBC exchanges. Whether it will go using IPStream to "returned" Centrals, or new WBC MSILs under IPSC.

Any idea?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It is highly unlikely anyone will be moved to IPStream for any length of time.

I said nothing about "to IPStream"; I was talking about from existing IPStream. Or is this just confusion of terminology?

I would expect them to be moved off their existing connection to Orange BT Centrals which use IPStream, so that those can be decommissioned. Though I could be wrong about that.

You do though raise the possibility that BT Wholesale will just stop charging rental on them, but that then raises the question of who pays for the space they occupy. If that is the route adopted then we will never know. The contract is no doubt complex!

It's all incidental to my main query of course, which Andrew has answered.