What is this BT box located on my front door frame?!

Hi all.

Could anyone tell me what the BT box is in the picture below? Is that a master socket?

I'm in the process of renovating a house and I would like to replace the front door and frame. However, this BT box is located on the actual door frame which is to be replaced, and the wires which come from outside actually go through the door frame. For those reasons it will need to be moved to a different location. I have a couple of questions which I hope someone can answer for me.

1. What is it?
2. Is it owned by BT?
3. How much will BT charge to move it and maybe replace it for a newer split face master socket (if that's what it is)?

Here is the box:

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/GSDogUK/IMG...

... and the wires which go through the door frame into it:

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/GSDogUK/IMG...


Any help would be appreciated.

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Jun-11 12:02:41)

We have two of those in circuit - they seem to be splitters, so as to split the line in half on entry to the home with one half of the circuit going upstairs and the other downstairs.

If only one pair is used then I'd guess you don't need that box, but you will need a master socket on the end of it to make it work.

In our case here both those boxes plus the GPO kit is all BT owned, so we can't touch it and if we did remove it then I guess we'd be looking at a charge for someone to come round and wire it back in again (though most of the current wiring is actually superfluous)

In such a case it might be cheaper to simply have a "new line" as most places charge between about £49 and £150 to put one in e.g. discontinue service on it then start again as a new customer.

It looks like a straight joint box to me, which effectively connects the external wiring to the internal house wiring. I would assume that the cable on the house side would then go to your master socket in the house and any other extensions would be connected from there.

As for moving it, I would think that the job should be done by BT, although anyone with electrical knowledge can probably disconnect the external wires, pull the cable back through the door frame, replace the door frame and either reroute the cable back through the new frame or drill a hole in the wall and route it in that way, before reconnecting the wires the way they were originally....

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

It looks like a straight joint box to me, which effectively connects the external wiring to the internal house wiring. I would assume that the cable on the house side would then go to your master socket in the house and any other extensions would be connected from there.

As for moving it, I would think that the job should be done by BT, although anyone with electrical knowledge can probably disconnect the external wires, pull the cable back through the door frame, replace the door frame and either reroute the cable back through the new frame or drill a hole in the wall and route it in that way, before reconnecting the wires the way they were originally....

That is exactly correct. It's a "block terminal 78 (or 80). It joints the extenal dropwire to the internal wiring.

As mentioned you could, at your own risk, do it yourself. Simply open take a photo or note what colours joint to one another. When happy that you can "reverse engineer", cut joint down fit door frame, drill new frame or wall, reconnect wiring.

Things to bear in mind.
Will you have sufficient cable length when it's moved?

Are the wires connected with an IDC (insulation displacement connection) only, or IDC terminations and screw terminals? If so you'll need a krone tool (probably buy from maplin for a couple of £)?

Are they connected with little 2-way jelly crimps? Might be more difficult to source. Electriacians terminal blocks would work, but would also be evidence of tampering should you ever need an engineer visit for any reason.

Hope that helps

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

In such a case it might be cheaper to simply have a "new line" as most places charge between about £49 and £150 to put one in e.g. discontinue service on it then start again as a new customer.

Initially sounds like a good idea BUT, asking for a NEW line may well result in a second line being installed (assuming existing line is working) , unless he is very, very clear about what he wants done. Similarly a takeover would not work, he would get a new number and if the existing line is working (I'm assuming it is) then no engineering visit would be needed anyway.

Best bet, DIY OR order a shift from the CP (similar to ordering an extension on an existing line).

If you are still a BT subscriber, you can be a bit naughty and report a problem with you phone. When the engineer sees this type of box, they will usually upgrade it, free of charge! We went through this process about 4 years ago. Basically the engineers regard these old boxes as likely causes of problems and want rid of them.
If you are with another provider, you might get away with the same trick but can't say for sure. Good luck!

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

[Are they connected with little 2-way jelly crimps? Might be more difficult to source. [/quote]

Not tricky, search eBay for "jelly crimp" and you can buy small quantities. Not cheap per crimp, but if you only need a couple it's the way to go.

That's what puzzles me. Here, we don't use the line at all, as it can't carry a broadband service (3.6km line, so the internal wiring may or may not be a factor in that) - it can have ADSL but only at 2meg so it's useless. That may or may not be thanks to the ancient GPO/BT wiring.

We're not telephone subscribers. So I can't see why I can't just remove all the BT/GPO equipment on my premises and pop it in a bag undamaged, invite them to come get it if they want, and then later on sign up for a new line - which would indeed have to be a new line - and fork out the £85 or whatever it is for the aforementioned new line.

I thought lines belonged to subscribers; they cannot "belong" to properties.

So that's what I thought the OP could do, especially if the line is "stopped" anyway. After all if it's going to cost £85 to get it "activated" you might as well have someone spend half an hour at the house putting in a new socket for the money.

In reply to a post by shtu:

In reply to a post by polemonkey:

[Are they connected with little 2-way jelly crimps? Might be more difficult to source. [/quote]

Not tricky, search eBay for "jelly crimp" and you can buy small quantities. Not cheap per crimp, but if you only need a couple it's the way to go.

Fair enough, I've never had to buy any myself of course

Removing to where, cable dangling outside in street?

Oops!

Forgot to ask the really obvious question. Is it even active, for all we know the OP could have cable!

If it ain't active just rip it out, BT will never know or care. It's their property but your house. Legally a grey area to be honest.

If you ever (in future) order a line then you'll be charged an install fee, but this would apply whether or not wiring existed anyhow.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong anyone who knows better, but my current understanding is that no discount is given for pre-existing wiring on installations, possibly forced charge by OFCOM?

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Jun-11 13:38:00)

In both instances you'd only need to strip the wiring back to the drop wire.

If removing that too, that's surely up to BT to come round and uncouple it from the pole, it's their equipment and if you're not a subscriber then I can't see what automatic right BT have to insist their equipment stays in, or attached to, your home.

My point is: if it's going to cost £85 or some fee to get the line activated regardless, then you might as well get a new, free master socket into the bargain. It's daft, but then surely so is charging an ISP something like £60 to activate a piece of old obsolete kit without even visiting the property and making the assumption that it will work for the broadband service that was ordered.

^ what he said

I'd assumed it was inactive and it'll cost to reconnect anyway.

Grey - but if you cause damage to the telephone network they are able to pursue costs incurred etc etc e.g. someone re-uses the phone wiring for some other LV system that is really still connected to the phone network and destroys kit outside their property.

Thanks for the help.

The line is active. I'd be happy if it could be moved just to the right of the door frame with the cables going through the wall instead of the frame. It looks like there should hopefully be enough cable to do that.

So does the internal wire which comes from the joint box lead to the master socket?

I had mine left with some slack in the cables on both sides and not fixed to anything, so it just sits on the ledge above the front door

When OR came to replace my dropwire, the engineer was quite pleased as it meant less to unscrew and plenty of slack to move things whilst the work was being done

Really? We had one on our door and when it (the door)was replaced a few years ago we ended up with essentially some stripped wires running through a hole.

FTTC engineer neither noticed nor cared.

Everything still works a treat too.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

When the engineer sees this type of box, they will usually upgrade it, free of charge!

To what?

To what indeed - that box is current issue! lol but OR don't supply the stuck on flaky paint.

If its not in use just remove the box, pull the external downlead out of the door frame and just neatly tuck it away outside, if you ever go back to a BT/Openreach based phone/broadband setup it may come in useful. But I certainly wouldn't advice detaching the overhead from the property and wrapping it round the phone pole, that opens all sorts of safety issues should it get caught on a passing vehicle or a child gets caught up in it etc.

Or you can call BT and ask them to remove the unwanted line-plant - last I checked they were obliged to get that organised for you at no cost.

However if the line is still in use you need to call your service provider and explain about the cable, the renovations and that you need it moved - they should raise a 'shift' job to move it but it is chargeable since someone at somepoint agreed to have it in that location and when you move in and 'takeover' a line you pretty much take it over as it is (with a few exceptions - door frames not being one of them).

Edited by deleted (Thu 02-Jun-11 19:01:48)

In reply to a post by Zildjian285:

Thanks for the help.

The line is active. I'd be happy if it could be moved just to the right of the door frame with the cables going through the wall instead of the frame. It looks like there should hopefully be enough cable to do that.

So does the internal wire which comes from the joint box lead to the master socket?

A decent fitter of the new frame should be able to remove the old frame without damaging any wiring, plonk the wiring up against the brickwork, (maybe with a thin bit of something keeping it off the actual brick), put the new frame in, and weatherproof the cable entry.

Got something like it here, but it got G.P.O on it, which I presume means General post office shows how old it is.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Got something like it here, but it got G.P.O on it, which I presume means General post office shows how old it is.

Are you saying you can't remember the day you had it installed?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

Got something like it here, but it got G.P.O on it, which I presume means General post office shows how old it is.

Are you saying you can't remember the day you had it installed?

I only been here for 12 years. i just about remember when my parents had their phone installed, well it was not my parents phone it was my brothers, he got it for his Disco.

My other brother, my sister or myself was not allowed to use it. until we got older. i did answer it a few times.

When my brother got married the phone went into my Dads name.

I do miss those old phones, the proper ring they had and not this beeping and rubbish phones have now.

You can buy them converted to plug in, but not sure how they cope with other phones as the REN used to be pretty high on them

They work fine if converted properly, either by using a 4k bell or by putting a 3.3k resistor in series with the original 1k bell.
CONVERTING OLD TELEPHONES TO the UK PLUG AND SOCKET

In reply to a post by FRS_Plunderer:

If its not in use just remove the box, pull the external downlead out of the door frame and just neatly tuck it away outside, if you ever go back to a BT/Openreach based phone/broadband setup it may come in useful. But I certainly wouldn't advice detaching the overhead from the property and wrapping it round the phone pole, that opens all sorts of safety issues should it get caught on a passing vehicle or a child gets caught up in it etc.

However if the line is still in use you need to call your service provider and explain about the cable, the renovations and that you need it moved - they should raise a 'shift' job to move it but it is chargeable since someone at somepoint agreed to have it in that location and when you move in and 'takeover' a line you pretty much take it over as it is (with a few exceptions - door frames not being one of them).

Never cut off at the fixing this is very dangerous, in the early days when people were leaving BT to cable wires were just cut off and left at the bottom of poles. Only moved after accident or when eng visited on another fault. Just pull back and leave safe.
Callout people on Openreach just put plastic tape round the pole to hold the D/W "SAFE" as a TEMPORARY but in most cases they are just left in there for ever!.

The last point someone agreed to that location, not necessarily. Looking at OP photo it looked like D/W10 which has been in us about 25 years before was D/W6 you can see lead lug used to fix old wire Would have been Post Office days when fitted and most were fitted in hallways or where the eng said it had to go.

Why not claim for new door due to rot caused by ingress of water where wire enters

David

In reply to a post by Zildjian285:

Hi all.

Could anyone tell me what the BT box is in the picture below? Is that a master socket?

I'm in the process of renovating a house and I would like to replace the front door and frame. However, this BT box is located on the actual door frame which is to be replaced, and the wires which come from outside actually go through the door frame. For those reasons it will need to be moved to a different location. I have a couple of questions which I hope someone can answer for me.

1. What is it?
2. Is it owned by BT?
3. How much will BT charge to move it and maybe replace it for a newer split face master socket (if that's what it is)?

Here is the box:

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/GSDogUK/IMG...

... and the wires which go through the door frame into it:

http://i587.photobucket.com/albums/ss317/GSDogUK/IMG...


Any help would be appreciated.

i got one too, inside my bay window it is a simple joint box, get yerself a couple of those gel crimps and disconect the incoming pair for the box and relocate it to somewhere that is suitable , if the cable will be short inside, you may as well by some proper twisted pair and a bt master socket available on tintrernet, won't cost ya much ,if done correctly with genuine bt line box they will be none the wiser , should they sometime in the future visit to find a fault ect