Planning ahead

Hi all, I have a fibre optic termination box at the end of my drive and am about to get the drive relaid, which would give me an opportunity provide for future installation of fibre optics to my property without digging up the garden or drive at the time.

I currently get 5+Mbps download and 0.7Mbps upload speeds via my 'phone line and Talktalk, which is perfectly adequate for my needs at the moment (no gaming, music or movie downloads). My question is: for the expected changes in the industry, is it anticipated that fibre optics will be a lot better in future than satellite, to the extent that it would be worth the expense of laying a conduit (with pull-through)? Assuming the consensus is Yes:

What minimum diameter of conduit?
What minimum bend radius for changes of direction?
Should joints be waterproof?

Thanks in anticipation.

Ian

My question is: for the expected changes in the industry, is it anticipated that fibre optics will be a lot better in future than satellite, to the extent that it would be worth the expense of laying a conduit (with pull-through)? Assuming the consensus is Yes:

What minimum diameter of conduit?
What minimum bend radius for changes of direction?
Should joints be waterproof?

I think you will find some useful information in the OpenReach Builders Guide.

My personal opinion in reply to your four questions: Yes, Not sure, Not sure and Yes.

Useful document.
I did have a bit of a giggle over the jointing chambers on page 18.
I'd put money on the top picture (the 'how it should be done') being a mock-up and the lower picture (the 'how not to do it') being the real-life installation from a typical British building site

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "a fibre optic termination box". Is this FTTP kit from BT, or a cabinet, or what? Is this a new build estate?

Or is it a Virgin?

Good question .

Thanks for the comments. All I need to know technically is in the Openreach manual, which still leaves me with the decision on whether to proceed (partly dependent on being able to source the duct and accessories and at what cost).

I also posted this on the Virgin Media forum site, looking at some of the thread headers, I'm wondering whether it would be worth the hassle. Fibre-optic-based supply doesn't seem to be very foolproof!

Anyway,

Thanks all for your inputs.

Ian

What on earth is the termination box though? As XRaySpex says, is it even anything to do with BT? If it isn't, then the OR manual irrelevant.

Are you talking about FTTC or FTTP? FTTC comes down your existing phone line to the house. How is that routed?

Same question in a Virgin forum http://community.virginmedia.com/t5/Fibre-optic-broa...

Yes, that was me, too. The reason I sought a second opinion was that I regularly get junk mail from Virgin.

I currently get 5+Mbps download and 0.7Mbps upload speeds via my 'phone line and Talktalk,

Your line most likely is not a fibre-optic line, rather it's probably just a old copper wire with a MaxDSL service. Neither BT nor Virgin offer wide-spread fibre-optic lines to the end-user's premises, in fact the UK is way behind many other countries when it comes to genuine fibre-optic lines.

The op is aware of the fact his line is not fibre etc. He just happens to have a fibre cab outside their property (whether BT or VM, don't know) but was asking about laying duct since they are having their drive relaid.

In reply to a post by Rockh:

He just happens to have a fibre cab outside their property

Does he? Have you ever heard of a Virgin or BT cabinet being called a "fibre termination box", and no clarification despite two requests for such?

For all we know it's just some small chamber under the tarmac where Virgin terminate their cabal ready to pipe it to some property.

..course, what hasn't been mentioned, the OP will only be able to duct to the edge of his property, to run duct direct in to the box, he would need the boxes owners permission, and similar from the council plus liability insurance for whoever does the dig across the pavement.

I seem to have caused a bit of confusion. Here's the history:

Some time ago, a contractor dug up the streets all round where I live and left a small, triangular termination "box" outside each property. As far as I can tell, it's empty.

I'm not planning to change from my copper-based installation, ie broadband via the phone line with Talktalk as provider, any tome soon, but think that it may be a good idea, whilst relaying my drive, to install a duct from the triangular box to a point adjacent to the outside wall of my property. That way, if I decide to go for a supply from that triangular box sometime in the future, whatever it is, I can get it done without digging up my drive or garden.

As reported above, I now have the technical information I was looking for.

Thanks again,

Ian

Even more confusing, I forgot to sign in before making the above post. Silly me!

And another thing! The triangular termination box sits right outside my garden wall, adjacent to the drive. If I go ahead, I'll install the duct so that it terminates on my property, just on the other side of the wall to the triangular box. All I'm looking to do is make it easy for the installer to get from the box to my property without making a mess. If it helps, I'll take a photo of the offending item.

Cheers,

Ian

In reply to a post by adebov:

I'd put money on the top picture (the 'how it should be done') being a mock-up and the lower picture (the 'how not to do it') being the real-life installation from a typical British building site

I've looked into many a footway joint-box in my life and I can say that the original GPO installed, then laterly BT installed and finially OR installed (or installed for . . .) have been to the "how it should be done" standard.

I have also been shown a photograph of a Virgin installed (or installed for . . .) joint box that is just like the "how not to do it" image. To be fair to Virgin a number of joint-boxes they now control were built in that silly phase in the 1990s where "one man and his dog" seemed to be cashing in on the CATV cabling infrastructure boom.

In reply to a post by iancol:

And another thing! The triangular termination box sits right outside my garden wall, adjacent to the drive. If I go ahead, I'll install the duct so that it terminates on my property, just on the other side of the wall to the triangular box. All I'm looking to do is make it easy for the installer to get from the box to my property without making a mess. If it helps, I'll take a photo of the offending item.

I think I know exactly what you mean. I had one of those put outside my previous house in the early 1990s by a "cowboy contractor" working on behalf of a now defunct CATV company, the plant of which Virgin inherited. Essentially that is the end point of a duct which will lead back to a Virgin cabinet. If you were to take Virgin's cable services -- TV, telephone, broadband -- they would use that duct for their co-axial feed and, possibly, copper pair to your house.

Please do take a few pictures. I know I'm not the only one who likes to "have a look".

I'd be glad to supply a photo, but can't find out how to do it on this forum. Please advise.

Ian

Host it elsewhere - such as Photbucket.com and provide a link.

Thanks - watch this space. I hope it's worth the effort.

Perhaps I should have started with this!

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/iancol/Term...

I'm guessing this is in Virgin's control, based on the content of recent circulars from them.

Ian

Yes, that's Virgin. Ours were installed by Nynex, which was bought by NTL, which is what I believe Virgin Media cable is - just licensing the use of the brand-name from Richard Branson's companies.

Ours doesn't have the fancy triangular cap. The tube you see just has/had a green plastic cap - of which very few remain.

As I understand it they push a hooked rod down and lift the cable up to joint the cable(s) from the premises to it. Then push it back down.

So to install a duct from near there to the premises, preferably with some sort of pull-through inserted, may be a good idea, as you were thinking. That's if you might ever want to go to Virgin cable. It could also be useful to the next occupier so long as they are made aware of it's existence.

With regard to BT installations, how does your phone line get to you already? The reason I ask is that for an FTTC installation there is nothing to install to get it to your house; it comes through the existing phone line. With FTTP then again I suppose it could be useful.

I haven't followed the link to the OR document, but have seen the Builders' documentation before and that seems to be green-field stuff for underground phone cabling. If your line is underground then that will be in place and I expect is what OR would use in the event of FTTP.

Hi again,

Thanks for that. I'm still looking for a source of the ducting. I've seen one product that's flexible and comes in 25m rolls, which would be ideal, once I locate a UK agent.

So, I know what to do, will soon know where to get the stuff to do it, but am still uncertain as to whether I would need to bother. The objective would be to future-proof my installation.

My current broadband supply is through my BT-installed land line, put in about 17 years ago. I'm about 2 miles form the exchange, but don't know whether there are any intermediate fibre optic cabinets. My account's with Talktalk and broadband speed's gradually increased since I signed up, from 2Mbps/0.4Mbps to the 5+Mbps/0.7+Mbps now. I don't expect to it to get much better with the current set up as I have a 5m 'phone extension between the incomer and the router. I can't put the router at the incomer and connect to the PC with ethernet, because I don't have power adjacent.

I already have coaxial cables between the loft and a suitable, powered location, thanks to an earlier occupier having installed a satellite dish. I could thus go for a satellite-based installation instead. On the other hand, I understand that the new Freesat HD kit works direct off the TV aerial. Would that be enough?

Thanks again,

Ian

If you are thinking about the flexible corrugated ducting - don't. It can be a real pain pulling cables through as they can often snag repeatedly unless it has a smooth lining.

You should be able to source some 50mm internal diameter rigid green ducting with a fixed 90^o bend at each end. It wil be a lot cheaper too.

http://i825.photobucket.com/albums/zz176/iancol/Term...

I'm guessing this is in Virgin's control, based on the content of recent circulars from them.

It certainly is.

Unlike the "hook it out, make connection and stuff it back down" scenario that RobertoS has described, at my old house that triangular plate covered the duct-seal (essentially a rubberised plug) and, for each individual property, the duct ran back to to footway joint-box and then from there to the Virgin cabinet.

When the service was provided to a property, a coaxial cable was fed from the cabinet via the footway joint-box and each individual property's duct, then finally buried underground from the triangular plate into the property itself.

Thanks again, all.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yes, that's Virgin. Ours were installed by Nynex, which was bought by NTL, which is what I believe Virgin Media cable is - just licensing the use of the brand-name from Richard Branson's companies.

NTL bought/merged with Telewest, and the combined NTL:Telewest then bought Virgin Mobile, which gave them the right to use the Virgin name - so they renamed the whole group Virgin Media.

I sometimes wondered if Branson's holding company Virgin Enterprises actually wanted to let their name be used by the NTL:telewest lot, but I suspect given the purchase of Virgin Mobile, they had no choice.

Are you saying this is either incorrect or has been superseded?