It isn't if the issue is with the copper line provided by the VOICE provider, we simply utilise that copper line to put a broadband signal over it.

Matt

That's a strange view of the world for an ISP to have.

Like it or not, the provider of the copper line is Openreach.

Like it or not, Openreach sell the voice capability on that line to the voice provider, and they separately sell the broadband capability to the broadband provider.

In this case Openreach's customer for the broadband capability is C+W and Uno are C+W's customer.

The end user has no cause to contact his/her voice provider (which might not even be BT, but typically will) when there is a broadband problem on the line.

So you're saying that if the user has complete loss of phone line service, which also is loss of broadband too - we can take the fault?

Even if the user could go to the voice provider in this instance, your logic indicates they would not need to.

Simply answer is no. The end user does not pay us for the copper circuit, they pay the voice provider whom are the ones responsible for the "core" service.

Matt

That's called passing the buck!

The copper line is actually provided by BT Openreach who rent it out (WLR, an Openreach product) usually to BT Retail for Voice, who in turn collect the line rental from the subscriber. Nevertheless the line is shared usage between ISP & Voice provider.

When there is a BB Issue, as this is (speed dropped dramatically suddenly), it is responsibility of ISP to commission Openreach to investigate, unless the line cannot maintain a clear voice signal, of which there is no evidence here.

In reply to a post by uno:

So you're saying that if the user has complete loss of phone line service, which also is loss of broadband too - we can take the fault?

Naive! You know he meant a BB fault w/out any Voice fault.

Not naive, an example based on the flawed logic the poster gave.

Matt

"if the user has complete loss of phone line service, which also is loss of broadband too - we can take the fault?"

That is not really what I said, but obviously if you are more willing to take a broadband fault when there is also a voice fault (nothing to do with you) than you appear to be when there is only a broadband fault, feel free to give it a try.

If voice with no broadband kit exhibits fault report to voice provider
If broadband only exhibits issue report to broadband report

Simple

Is that C&W policy then, i.e. if an issue with BB on the copper line they insist it is reported via the voice provider?

Remember if voice is working fine, then a voice provider will generally only test for voice related faults

It's not just C&W who insist on this. BT Wholesale do too, if their automated systems detect an issue, the phrase "report to telephony provider" is output by their systems.

We'll always push a fault through for a human to take a look if required but we follow their own systems with the recommended action, just as anyone would. but with C&W especially, they're a pain in the backside to deal with which is part reason why we're looking at alternatives.

Matt