BT FTTC - router and faceplate

I've just seen that my exchange is due to be upgraded to FTTC by the end of September, and been reading more about what's involved in upgrading from ADSL2+.

I see it requires a new faceplate and a BT modem. Re the faceplate, I currently have an ADSL faceplate on my master socket, so that my telephone wiring and broadband are separate (and I don't use microfilters on my extensions). My current router connects to this with an RJ9 connector. Will I still need a new faceplate, or will this be sufficient? (As far as I can tell, all the new BT Infinity plate does is separate the two circuits, as my current setup does).

Re the modem/router - I currently use a Netgear DG834, which has the modem built in. Is it possible to get a modem/router combined like this one for the FTTC service, or would I be forced to have a separate modem?

Openreach fit a new face-plate (new, rather than a different type of face-plate).
For the same reason, you can't use the Netgear as the modem (it's not vDSL compatible), so Openreach supply their own vDSL modem for you to use.
If you go with Infinity, BT supply the Home Hub v3, which has a port for connecting into the Openreach modem.
If you go with another provider, you have to supply your own "cable" router (basically one which can take it's internet connection via an Ethernet port, rather than the phone line plugging directly into the router).

There are combined vDSL modems with routers (apparently), but they're reportedly very expensive and you get the OR one and the Home Hub for free (so why not use them).

It's possible (depending on whether you have a Netgear firmware, or a patched one) that you may be able to use the Netgear as a router, but you still need the OR modem.
I've heard of people being able to re-configure regular ADSL modem/routers so they act as a "cable" router and take an Ethernet connection into one of the normal RJ45 ports.
But why faff around doing this, when the Home Hub does it for you?

Edited by adebov (Sat 27-Aug-11 20:21:07)

Thanks, Ade.

In reply to a post by adebov:

Openreach fit a new face-plate (as the FTTC based system uses vDSL, so needs a different type of face-plate).

In what way is it different, though? Isn't it just an RJ9 connection? I really don't want BT fiddling with my wiring - it took me ages to install decent quality cabling and it made a massive difference to my connection speed on ADSL2+. Moreover, I can't put the router at the master socket, and I don't want a surface wired extension (my current extension wiring is under the floors).

In reply to a post by adebov:

But why faff around doing this, when the Home Hub does it for you?

Because I don't use BT, and even if I did, I wouldn't use a Home Hub. I have a separate access point for wireless, and want to keep it that way, so that I can turn it off when I'm not using it, without turning off my router. Most of my computers have wired connections, so I don't need the wireless on all the time.

But haven't you got your existing router at the master socket , or fairly close? That's the way you describe it.

In reply to a post by garywood84:

In what way is it different, though? Isn't it just an RJ9 connection?

Well it's not different, just new (edited my post as it did read that way) - don't know why - just is.
I'm sure someone will come along if there's a technical reason (rather than a commercial reason) as to why it's changed slightly.

Edited by adebov (Sat 27-Aug-11 20:24:07)

No, sorry - I didn't describe it well enough if that's what you understood!

I have this modified faceplate on the master socket:
http://www.clarity.it/xcart/product.php?productid=16...

From the rear terminals of this faceplate, I have cables running to my extensions. Most of my extensions connect to the phone connections on the rear of the faceplate, which is filtered, so none of the extensions needs a microfilter. One of my extensions connects to the broadband connections on the rear of the faceplate, and my ADSL modem is located on this extension (upstairs).

As far as I can see from information online, the BT faceplate is basically a repalcement for the microfilters on your line, and has an output for ADSL and a standard phone on the front. If that's the case, and the output for ADSL is a standard RJ9 socket, then I think I already have the right wiring setup for FTTC broadband.

Sorry, Ade - our posts crossed.

In reply to a post by adebov:

In reply to a post by garywood84:

In what way is it different, though? Isn't it just an RJ9 connection?

Well it's not different, just new.

So I wouldn't need it, then?

Edited by deleted (Sat 27-Aug-11 23:02:20)

That's actually a useful face-plate for ADSL (as it allows you to send the ADSL signal, or a filtered voice only signal around the house).
I don't believe there's a technical reason (unless one of the OR guys comes on to correct me) as to why you couldn't keep an existing face-plate (except you probably wouldn't want to send the unfiltered vDSL signal around the house, as it would degrade the signal).

My guess is the main reason OR fit a new face-plate is most ADSL connections (certainly over the last 7 or 8 years) have been home install jobs, so most people only have micro-filters.

In reply to a post by adebov:

...except you probably wouldn't want to send the unfiltered vDSL signal around the house, as it would degrade the signal.

Why? Isn't that what BT would do, if they installed an extension, which they will do as part of the install service, if required?

Edited by deleted (Sat 27-Aug-11 20:40:21)

In reply to a post by garywood84:

In reply to a post by adebov:

...except you probably wouldn't want to send the unfiltered vDSL signal around the house, as it would degrade the signal.

Why? Isn't that what BT would do, if they installed an extension, which they will do as part of the install service, if required?

Well they will send the vDSL signal elsewhere in the house, but your extension wiring would have to be top quality, and you'd still need to understand the speed could be significantly affected (vDSL drops off at a much faster rate than ADSL, so the length of wiring in your home could make a huge difference).
OR will obviously fit this extension for you but the vDSL signal will degrade over the length (whereas an Ethernet connection will not - unless you live in a really big house!).

It really is best to put the OR modem next to the master socket, and extend either the Ethernet (which can go up to 100m fairly easily), or use wireless.

It's the quality of the extension cabling that matters. Apparently even BT-installed extension cabling from years ago isn't brilliant for VDSL2. The "Data Extension Kit" the OR engineers carry is good stuff, that's all.

Although what adebov says is technically as per what the engineers are told to do - ie fit the VDSL faceplate, if your extension wiring is CAT5 and looks OK then several posters on here have managed to get them to leave things as they are. There have also been several others, (more I think), who have successfully asked them to alter things so the current master becomes an extension, and the extension you currently use for ADSLx becomes the master. That second possibility is probably the one for you.

It all depends on how experienced and helpful the engineer is and what he thinks of your wiring.

A final possibility, if persuasion, pleading and tea/coffee and biscuits fail, (more than one engineer visiting these forums crave Jaffa Cakes), let them install the modem in the hall, hopefully on your Clarity faceplate, and move it when they have gone!

Edit - typo.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 27-Aug-11 20:57:50)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There have also been several others, (more I think), who have successfully asked them to alter things so the current master becomes an extension, and the extension you currently use for ADSLx becomes the master.

That is exactly how my very first ADSL line was configured (back in September 2001). The engineer argued (saying the extension cable wouldn't be good enough).
Obviously it worked fine, because I was only around 2km from the exchange (back then) and it was fixed speed 512kbps (so would probably still have worked, even if I'd have had a couple of km wiring inside my house).
vDSL is a very different ball-game and will need much better quality cabling if the signal isn't to degrade too much.

Yep. I hope I stressed enough to Gary how important the quality of his cabling is to whether or not he gets agreement. I may be wrong, but I don't think CW1308 qualifies.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I may be wrong, but I don't think CW1308 qualifies.

Or burglar alarm cable, which I'm sure is what the idiot electricians used in my new house (can't think of many other reasons why I should get 4.8Mbps in the master face-plate, and less than 2Mbps in a filtered extension - removing the filtered face-plate first, obviously).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There have also been several others, (more I think), who have successfully asked them to alter things so the current master becomes an extension, and the extension you currently use for ADSLx becomes the master.

How do they do this without changing the wiring? There must still be some internal "extension" wiring to extend the line from where it comes into the property to where the new master socket is to be located.

I've got CAT5 cabling from my master socket to all my extensions, including those that are only for phones, so I reckon they are already good quality.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

(more than one engineer visiting these forums crave Jaffa Cakes)

Thanks for this tip - a good excuse to buy some Jaffa Cakes and I'll certainly enjoy them, even if the engineer doesn't!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

let them install the modem in the hall, hopefully on your Clarity faceplate, and move it when they have gone!

That's what I'd do - at least as a test. It would all depend on them leaving my Clarity faceplate installed, though. If they did that, then I'd have a backup plan: if the router was slower/didn't work on the internal extension upstairs, then I could disconnect my extension that goes upstairs from the faceplate and put an RJ45 connector on it, to make it into a network cable, and leave the BT modem downstairs by the master socket, and connect it, using the wire that I've re-purposed to the router, which could be located upstairs.

don't know why - just is.
I'm sure someone will come along if there's a technical reason (rather than a commercial reason) as to why it's changed slightly.

Nope, commercial only, they are cheaper than the 'original' faceplate filters.

Hi Zarjaz .

Am I right thinking CW1308 isn't satisfactory for the purpose? (Although we now know the OP has CAT5 it would be nice to know whether I'm right or wrong for the future).

In reply to a post by garywood84:

How do they do this without changing the wiring?

Phone line (unfiltered) only needs two cores (there are eight in CAT5 cable), so they'd join the incoming pair to one of the pairs in the CAT5 cable serving the socket you'd like to be the new master (connecting that pair to the A & B input of the master) then send the filtered voice-only signal back down the same CAT5 cable, to the old master location (now just a regular extension socket) and join them to the cables serving the other extensions.

Basically: -

Incoming pair >>>>joint (at old master location) to CAT5 >>>>>>>>>> new master location >>>>>>>>>>>(same CAT5)>>>>>>> old master location>>>>>>>remaining extensions.

(more than one engineer visiting these forums crave Jaffa Cakes),

Come now Bob, you know it's Fig Newtons that do the trick......

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

commercial only

Sounds about right

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

(more than one engineer visiting these forums crave Jaffa Cakes),

Come now Bob, you know it's Fig Newtons that do the trick......

Cool; opportunity to show off.......
Who else has been to Newton, the town in Massachusetts from where Fig Newtons (aka Fig Rolls) get their name?

CAT5 between the existing master and the desired extension is fine. Remember the VDSL 2 signal is coming from the cabinet on copper, so a few metres of CAT5 won't make much difference. Poor stuff would.

What they do if willing is within the existing master wire the incoming line to the extension, (I don't know if they disable the "Master"), and connect another pair in the CAT5 back to make the old master an extension.

As you have CAT5, he may just say "Fine", and install the modem at the extension. The ones I seen reported where that has been done have all had filtered faceplates at the extension pre-installed.

Hmm, it ain't quite as fussy as that. I'd surely be saying that when this all goes self install, and it surely will, we will be awash with with folk finding they have lost umpteen meg over their extension wiring. As long as you pick up the incoming point, fit an SSFP there, then all will be well. I have no doubt the OP's existing set up will work as they have it. The only proof will be a test at the NTE, and one at the end of the current 'data extension'. Who knows, when this goes up to 80 meg, then it'll be even more sensitive.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

(more than one engineer visiting these forums crave Jaffa Cakes),

Come now Bob, you know it's Fig Newtons that do the trick......

Ahhh! Indeed so. I do remember now.

Just there are so many mentions of Jaffa Cakes as well., which I loath in fact.

Now fig biscuits ....droooooool!

Cool; opportunity to show off.......smile
Who else has been to Newton, the town in Massachusetts from where Fig Newtons (aka Fig Rolls) get their name?

Nope Ade, but I do have 40 meg BB for free ........ [smug icon]

In reply to a post by garywood84:

I've just seen that my exchange is due to be upgraded to FTTC by the end of September, and been reading more about what's involved in upgrading from ADSL2+.

I see it requires a new faceplate and a BT modem. Re the faceplate, I currently have an ADSL faceplate on my master socket, so that my telephone wiring and broadband are separate (and I don't use microfilters on my extensions). My current router connects to this with an RJ9 connector. Will I still need a new faceplate, or will this be sufficient? (As far as I can tell, all the new BT Infinity plate does is separate the two circuits, as my current setup does).

Re the modem/router - I currently use a Netgear DG834, which has the modem built in. Is it possible to get a modem/router combined like this one for the FTTC service, or would I be forced to have a separate modem?

When I went to Infinity a couple of months ago the BT engineer tested the ADSL Nation faceplate I already had and left that, saying it was as good (or better than) the BT one...........

Edited by Garyilka (Sun 28-Aug-11 10:44:12)

Thanks, everyone - I hope BT will agree to leave my faceplate in place - I'd rather stick with ADSL2+ than have them fiddling with it (I've had experience of BT engineers when I had a fault before I got he CAT5 cabling...)

The first hurdle, though, is going to be for the exchange AND my local cabinet to be ugpraded. The exchange RFS date is showing as 01 September 2011 in some places and 30 September in other places. Either way on that, does anyone know how/where I can find out which cabinets are due for upgrade?

CW1308 is essentially the cable used from the exchange/cabinet to the premises, only an external version of it. So yes it is suitable, however BT are using VDSL2 for the FTTC offering and will be using a wider range of frequencies when they start offering 80Mb. CAT5e cable may therefore be marginally better for the purpose, but remember you are probably only running a few meters compared to hundreds meters on BT's side so don't expect miracles.

Yes you can keep your existing faceplate and in the Case of the XTE-2005 it has been tested with VDSL2 connections a works fine. I would however make sure that you ask the BT engineer to leave the openreach filter as you may need it in the future to prove to BT that any problems you have are not caused by your not using their standard (v.basic) filter.

There are A&B terminals of the BR Openreach interstitial filter.

In reply to a post by Garyilka:

When I went to Infinity a couple of months ago the BT engineer tested the ADSL Nation faceplate I already had and left that, saying it was as good (or better than) the BT one...........

The problem though is that the OP wants to run the modem off an extension which is wired unfiltered from the back of the Clarity faceplate he has.

So he does - I overlooked his post expaining that and still had his first post in mind which seemed to describe a straightforward faceplate installation! Sorry about that

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions on this so far. Assuming that my cabinet -- and not just the exchange -- are upgraded this September, I'll keep my fingers crossed for a helpful BT Engineer who's prepared to take a sensible approach to this and not change things for the sake of it.

In the meantime, does anyone know where/how I can find out if my cabinet is on the list to be upgraded?

Given your post code several of us can check cabinet(s) for it as at April, and if that looks dubious there is a later list as well.

Thanks, RobertoS - I've PM you my postcode.