New user asking about Orange Broadband and Netgear Router

Right where to start.

I used to be a BT broadband customer, never had much trouble with the internet, when with BT, but costs where to high so I changed Broadband provider to Orange, as my Blackberry is orange and the package I have is cheaper than BT for the speeds I was receiving.

I have been a orange broadband customer for approx 8 months, at first I had no problems with my internet, but over the last few months( I have the Computer broadband from hell), I could pull my hair out and as you sometimes do, I have wanted to throw my computer out of the window.

My platform is XP, wired, I run AVG free internet virus software and have the usual gizmos to keep my computer running as smoothly as I can make it.

I have been in touch with orange as I was wondering if my router was faulty, ( I am quite new to all this tec stuff but I do try and understand it).

The problem being I was getting internet access at different speeds through the day, and my green lights where flashing as they should be then it started, I was getting online no probs, and then I could be searching on websites of doing my usual thing, I would then get periods of 2/5/10/15 minutes where the green lights on my router where solid, my computer freezes until I get the flashing green lights back, cannot even do a speestest to see that the problem is.
The speed test I have done through the last week, are not that bad

1801 Kbps 371 Kbps lowest
5137 Kbps 373 Kbps highest

After speaking to orange 2 /3 months ago, all they could suggest is that my firewall was the problem as my speeds where ok - I in my wisdom removed my firewall, tested still no difference removed antivirus soft wear still no difference.

It got so bad last week that I rang orange again and the have supplied my with a new router, I thought I had resolved the problem as day time speeds where not bad I had one or two slow times but I put that down to exchange use.

This evening however, from maybe 9pm till this post 2pm I have got periods of 20 mins that I have solid green lights, I can jump up and down move my mouse and my computer is still frozen until I get my green lights flashing again and hay presto I can work and do what I want and then it goes again.

I have done all the uninstalling of firefox and goole chrome, and I have clean out cookies and several other things including uninstall some software, none of this has mad any difference.

What I have been keeping a eye on is my Task manager, I am not sure how it really works but here goes.

On the networking Local area con I have Realtek RTL81 for operation- when there are solid green lights on my router I get in Local Area Connection 0% and a solid green line, when I have got green flashing light it goes up and down.

On the preformance table CPU usage I have even with solid green lights a graph showing red and green lines going up and own.

On the preformance Page file usage history I have a solid yellow line when I have solid green lights on my router, when I have flashing green lights this yellow line move up and down depend on usage.

I not sure what else I can say, it is a bit long winded, but I are doing my nut here.

Oh one other thing - II thought I might replace is my Ethernet cable as it is quite old as the one orange or BT supplied was not long enough. (is it worth a try) If so what is the best Ethernet cable to buy?

Can anyone HELP out there please thanks, I do not want orange going into my computer, as they always seem to muck up something else.

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Nov-11 03:04:24)

Orange package is

speed upto 20mg
unlimited no extra cost for downloading
12 month contract

I am 2.24 kilometres from my exchange

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Nov-11 02:56:22)

Which Netgear router?

By joining Orange you have effectively gone back to BT cuz BT Wholesale now supplies Orange's BB.

Since beginning Nov. we have been bugged by this issue: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/f/4065230... . It's been clear and rock solid for a week for me but others are still reporting it.

Perhaps your solid green Internet light is an indication of this, as you may remain synced but unauthenticated. Can you get into the Web interface of your router when this occurs? Does the Sync speed remain reasonable? What are your router stats? Is there any indications of "LCP Dpwn" in the log?

Nowt to do with Firewalls!

On another tack try killing your Browser and starting it again.

Which Netgear router is N150 Wirelkess ADSL2+Modem Router


Can you get into the Web interface of your router when this occurs? No I cannot get into anything screen freezes, and cannot use computer as that freezes as well until the flashing lights come back on.

On another tack try killing your Browser and starting it again.
Tried this in both Firefox and Chrome, have also turned of router and left it for 10/20 mins no difference have turned everything off, and reboot computer nothing still the same.

Thanks for replying

Can I cancel contract if I am not getting what they say?

Doubt it!

From what you say it now sounds like it's the PC not the BB. The solid greens could indicate that the router is not being asked to do anything by the PC. However doesn't the wireless flash at all? Mine does all the time, even when I have no wireless devices on.

Can't you even do CTRL-ALT-DEL when this happens?

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Orange package is

speed upto 20mg
unlimited no extra cost for downloading
12 month contract

I am 2.24 kilometres from my exchange

Hi, My Orange WBC 20 Mbps connection was good until 04/11/2011, I then started to get intermittent connection dropping, when it first happened I could not believe it, I had such good stable service on Orange LLU and at first on the WBC 20 Mbps service.

I think BT is carrying out intensive work on their 21CN WBC networks and at times they unplug customers from one MSAN (Multi-service access Node) and overload another MSAN which causes all this instability until they rectify it by putting it all back to normal. Right now my connection is back to normal until the next time they work on the network.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSAN

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_21CN

My problems stemmed from about the same date and lasted till 18 Nov.

In reply to a post by E7er:

at times they unplug customers from one MSAN (Multi-service access Node) and overload another MSAN

I don't think my issue occurred at local exchange but at some remote authentication server, like that national incident in Oct due to a fire in Brum. Did your logs show "LCP Down"? I remember, you had "The Broadband Link is Currently Not Available".

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 24-Nov-11 12:29:21)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

My problems stemmed from about the same date and lasted till 18 Nov.

In reply to a post by E7er:

at times they unplug customers from one MSAN (Multi-service access Node) and overload another MSAN

I don't think my issue occurred at local exchange but at some remote authentication server, like that national incident in Oct due to a fire in Brum. Did your logs show "LCP Down"? I remember, you had "The Broadband Link is Currently Not Available".

Oh, so there was a fire in Brum in October, I did not know there was a fire in Brum that affected the telephone networks, which would explain my situation the reason for all this disruption and unstable broadband service.

When my connection fails on my 2Wire 2700HGV router, the [Internet] connection neon goes from green to red, indicating the connection has dropped out and the [Broadband] sync green neon starts flashing, indicating it is trying to re-sync the lost connection. At present everything is back to normal and running just fine.

When my broadband failed I switched over to dial-up, I have just had my Orange phone bill, it cost me £2.50 for 30 minutes of dial-up.

3rd Oct. Sorry, it wasn't a fire but a "power issue": http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/4049660-b... . I got same "LCP Down" events.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

3rd Oct. Sorry, it wasn't a fire but a "power issue": http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/f/4049660-b... . I got same "LCP Down" events.

Maybe the cause is 21CN and is an ongoing situation�

In late 2009, British ISP Andrews & Arnold is still reporting severe issues with 21CN, citing multi-hour outages due to single points of failure, and opining that 21CN is still not "fit for purpose" due to this and numerous other problems.

Hi ya,

Well have received the new router from orange, after running it for a few days it has not made much difference.

I have run all the test I can think of for bugs Trojans etc., and nothing showing up.

I have actually received a info booklet this time with the router and it says I can have flashing or solid green lights on the router. When I get the solid green lights even the wirless light is not flashing and I get a lag on the computer, I sometimes can get up the Windows task manager but not always. This can last for up to 20mins.

Getting very frustrated as if it happen all day I could understand it, I get a lag sometimes but nothing much in the day time.

It seem to affect me in the evenings the most from 9pm upto 3pm when I sometimes go to bed late.

Has anyone got any other suggestions, if they thin it is my computer.

Edited by deleted (Sat 26-Nov-11 13:25:41)

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Hi ya,

Well have received the new router from orange, after running it for a few days it has not made much difference.

I have run all the test I can think of for bugs Trojans etc., and nothing showing up.

I have actually received a info booklet this time with the router and it says I can have flashing or solid green lights on the router. When I get the solid green lights even the wirless light is not flashing and I get a lag on the computer, I sometimes can get up the Windows task manager but not always. This can last for up to 20mins.

Getting very frustrated as if it happen all day I could understand it, I get a lag sometimes but nothing much in the day time.

It seem to affect me in the evenings the most from 9pm upto 3am when I sometimes go to bed late.

Has anyone got any other suggestions, if they thin it is my computer.

Hi, If everything is running okay in the daytime then it will not be your computer at fault, it sounds like it could be congestion but not at 3am so it could be your line at fault. Ask Orange to get your line checked out for faults, tell them at three o�clock in the morning when the network is quiet you still have this fault and it starts a 9pm. Maybe a line lift and shift will rectify the problem.

What do your Netgear DGN1000 router stats give?
To find them� Go > Maintenance > Router Status > Click on Show Statistics.

My DGN1000 router stats�
ADSL Link��......Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9725 Kbps 1215 Kbps
Line Attenuation 31.5 dB 10.7 dB
Noise Margin 12.0 dB 6.1 dB

Thanks for replying

Netgear DGN1000 router stats are

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6336 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 34.6 dB 20.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.5 dB 22.0 dB

Will ring orange tomorrow and ask them to check the line- good idea-I just assumed they would do that when I rung up.

Well this morning everything is working hunk e dorry, this morning 2 speed test show

27/11/11 12:41 Sun 3336 Kbps 374 Kbps 95.147.103.22 Orange
27/11/11 12:11 Sun 1623 Kbps 367 Kbps 95.147.103.22 Orange

yesterday evening when I could do a speed test showed this

26/11/11 14:56 Sat 3124 Kbps 374 Kbps 95.147.103.22 Orange
26/11/11 14:01 Sat 3129 Kbps 373 Kbps 95.147.103.22 Orange

Last night could not even get on to do a speed test.

So when is the best time to ring orange, they are not available when the router is problamitical, so will it show up as it is running fin at the mo??

Orange have checked my line asn router settings and files, and find that my line is not holding the speed it should be running at, but cannot find a fault on the router or telephone to get a engineer out, I have now got to ring them in the evening when the problem starts so they can try and find the fault to get a engineer to check from the exchange to the house oh joy

Well here is the update so far.

Spoke to orange Sat was on the telephone on hold for on and of for nearly 6 hours all told, kept getting cut off after 60 mins of waiting to speak to a superviouser, shoved from piller to post, but my persitiance paid off, as in the evening I got through to the second good adviser I had in 10 days.

I actually got to oranges second stage process and still not better.

In the evening I spoke to a very nice english guy who told me the system that orange work to.

When I have my line fixed I will fill you all in.

It is a stage process, and you would be tearing your hair out if you have to go through it.

I could not do anything on Sat evening as by the time I got throught to the UK adviser, it was to late to do much.

So as instructed I spoke to the UK part again on Sunday and got strat back to the call center in india but at level 2, now I have been told to unscrew my BT box cover and plug my telephone line in to the box direct. This seem to something for about 6 hours sunday, but now I am back to a worse connection than before, I was told to test it for 3/5 days, if everything ok screw box back up and reinsert telephone cable into the outside socket and that should resolve the problem (thought this box was BTs property-do not touch)

IT IS WORSE THAN EVER 2 days in and I am getting worse picks and troughs than I had before and freezing computer more, I give up, but am going to persist will keep the updates coming

Best thing to do is leave ORANGE BB I was without any service for a period of weeks after a period of indifferent speeds. Telephone calls to them and their intermediaries paid no dividends. I am now with Virgin and most of thetime am happy with the result.

Are there any wires attached to the faceplate that you have taken off?

Have you got any phone extensions, and have they stopped working now?

Have you got a Sky box?

What is there now between the phone socket and the router? Just a filter and short ADSL cable, or are you using a phone extension cable as well?

Update - Robertos No wires attached to faceplate
No phone extensions
No sky box
Just a filter and short ADSL cable

Router is connected to the computer and PS3 by ether cable. I only have these on one at a time, no one else in the family uses either of them.

I have today after all this time had a BT engineer come to my home as orange could not fob me off any more.

From all the test he did, it has been proven that I was right all along there servers cannot cope with the volume of people online, my computer, router, line, and exchange are A ok.

Orange have rung me back after receiving engineers report and have said that I can leave without any costs or problems as they cannot provide me with the speed down my line orange are not admitting that it is a server problem.

So got there in the end it has taken just over three months, and when I find the right provider for me I will be asking for compensation for all the hassle and run around they have given me.

I will say that most of the people I dealt with within orange were either working to a script (and could do nothing more than be polite on the phone) others were very helpful with advice and I thank them, even though they could not help me they did guide me in there own way.

And I would like to say thanks to everyone who replied to me on the forum

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

From all the test he did, it has been proven that I was right all along there servers cannot cope with the volume of people online,

What servers do you mean?

What tests did he do and what were the results?

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

"Can you get into the Web interface of your router when this occurs?" No I cannot get into anything screen freezes, and cannot use computer as that freezes as well until the flashing lights come back on.

I'm sorry, but even if you know nothing about computers, it should be fairly obvious that this is without doubt a computer issue and a computer issue alone.

Your computer is freezing up totally. Neither the broadband connection nor the router are capable of doing that. And when it happens, of course you cannot access the internet.

Because the computer is frozen, your Task Manager shows that local network throughput is zero, and the page file is not going up and down because processes are not being entered or removed into physical and/or virtual memory.

And it is as a consequence of your computer freezing up, that the lights on your router which normally flash when traffic is passing, go solid because no traffic is going to the computer. The cause is the computer, the effect is seen on the router. Not the other way round.

You're moving now anyway, so good luck.

Hi, I have had another computer that had been reformated and only had the basics on it, (this is a borrowed computer from someone who repairs computers) and it happened with that computer as well, my PS3 was also affected.

So as the BT outreach engineer said today it is not a computer, PS3 or router error, if you wish to disagree with them fine. If it happen all day every day I would say it could be my computer, but it only happens at certain times of the day, when I use the internet, and at no other time, or on some days just at night.


Thanks for the input though it is nice to get everyones opinions, even if we disagree

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Hi, I have had another computer that had been reformated and only had the basics on it, (this is a borrowed computer from someone who repairs computers) and it happened with that computer as well, my PS3 was also affected.

That computer freezes up too? And the PS3? And all at exactly the same time? And it's Orange network congestion to blame?

This is nonsense.

Your ADSL and Internet lights are solid, this means you are connected fine throughout. Your computer is ****ed, and a working computer and PS3 will have no problem.

That computer freezes up too? And the PS3? And all at exactly the same time? And it's Orange network congestion to blame?

This is nonsense.

Your ADSL and Internet lights are solid, this means you are connected fine throughout. Your computer is ****ed, and a working computer and PS3 will have no problem.

I never said they were all on at the same time if you read all the posts properly I said that they are used individualy as no one else in the house uses them.

I will state for the record

1. Computer on nothing else
2. PS3 on computer off
3. The laptop I used was on the wired connection i normally use for my computer (no other computer or laptop on any where in the house)
I think you just wont me to spend money, I have been on the net all morning and have not had any problems.

I will state again it only happens at certain times of the day. No my internet lights are not always solid but never orange

there is no need to get angry about it, my computer is ok not as you put it ****ed

I like constructive critsism not negative

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

]I never said they were all on at the same time if you read all the posts properly I said that they are used individualy as no one else in the house uses them.

You misunderstand. You SHOULD have them all on at the same time, and see what happens. If the problem is not with the machine, they will all freeze up and unfreeze exactly at the same time, right?

My swearing is just light-hearted fun! Its not anger!! But point taken, I will adjust to a more formal tone as you prefer.

Why would I want you to spend money? I am trying to help actually, to explain some basics and save you time and money and effort.

Please listen, saying Orange network congestion is hanging your computer is just impossible. Unplug the ethernet cable, you are not even connected to anything. How can it be freezing your computer?

We can go through some real steps if you would like - no harm in confirming where the issue lies and it wont cost you a penny. Let's get constructive.

My first question is going to be - can you describe what happens with the PS3 and with the borrowed computer when the issue arises? Do you have the borrowed computer still?

Yes I still have the borrowed computer.

When I first went to orange from BT, I had a problem signing in on the wireless conneciont I had always used we sorted that problem out with orange, then approx 6 weeks after that I could not sign in again I was getting kicked out after I had be signed in a while with the wirless connection I then had my computer on with erthernet cable connection with my hubby sometimes using ebay, so he stop going on the computer and this made no differece to the PS3. I now have a wired connect to my PS3 I cannot always sign on it can take 10 attemps even after checking all the options to see if there is anything else wrong it also kicks me off frequently and doing a download update can take an age where with BT it was done in seconds.

Re the unpluging ethernet cable from computer, I possibly did not write this properly. I unplug my computer from ethernet cable and plugged it into the lap top, the hanging (when I say freezeing, I can get on to something on my computer but nothing on the web) I was getting with my computer I was also getting on the laptop. I can get upto a 1min to 10min lag and then everything starts working again.

My computer works find when not attached to the ethernet cable, have no glitches at all, it is only when I am on the web same with the laptop

Hope this explains it a but better

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Hope this explains it a but better

Sorry, but not really.

You said you cannot use your computer at all when the issue arises - that the screen freezes, moving the mouse does not move the cursor around, and you cannot get into the router stats.

Now you say something totally different?

I cannot get to the router stats because orange states you read thought a webpage, and I cannot get that webpage up when this hanging/freezing happens. 99% of the time the mouse does not move, it does occasionly, I also cannot do a speed test when this happens as it is through a browser.

I can get to the windows task manager by ctrl alt delete and that tells me the webpage is not responding. I can also close the computer down by this.

Before you ask I can use one of three browser, firefox/chrome/IE it happens on all three web browsers.

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

I cannot get to the router stats because orange states you read thought a webpage, and I cannot get that webpage up when this hanging/freezing happens. 99% of the time the mouse does not move, it does occasionly

Part of me thinks this whole thread is a wind-up. Then another part thinks there's a lot of effort gone into some long posts and perhaps you do need some help. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, don't let me down.

Here's what I'm gonna ask you to do:

1) Get your router stats right now when everything is working and post back. I know you gave them before, but I want to see what they are now.
2) Connect the computer you describe above (I am gonna call it PC 1), the borrowed computer (PC 2) and the PS3 all at once to your router via cable. Switch off the wireless on the router completely by the button on the front of the router.
3)Turn them all on and leave them running in the evening. Browse on PC 1 as you normally do.

As soon as PC 1 sees the issue:
4) go to your router. There are two lights to the right of the light labelled 4. Are they solid, flashing or not lit up?
5) then go to PC 2. Do webpages load? If not, can you go to 192.168.0.1 and get your router stats? If so, post them here.
6) then go to the PS3 and run its internet connection test, take a photo or copy down the results and post back.

Is it a Windows computer, and if so which Windows? Is it an oldish or fairly new computer?

No the post is not a wind up, but when I first posted it, nothing came of it.

What you are asking me to do I can do tomorrow late afternoon, as I have friends watching tv tonight and I am my mothers tomorrow until late afternoon, but I will do what you are asking and post back, and thanks.

The computer is a dell dimension 8300 P4 CPU 3.00Ghz

XP professional-version 2002 service pack 3

Cap 148Gb -used 59.7gb

Running AVG Anti Virus

around 8 years old.

It has had a couple of clean ups, new network card (2years ago) not wireless

That's what I feared.

That is a pretty creaky spec for today, as all the XP patches in the end really kill a P4 processor. Even a complete reformat and XP reload doesn't do much good, as all the updates still have to be applied to it.

Also AV/FW software needs have grown dramatically, with either or both vastly longer virus spec lists and advanced heuristics.

You may or may not know that Intel had a complete philosophy change a few years ago. The Pentium chips were doing longer and longer instruction pre-fetch sequences and this proved the wrong approach for internet based stuff. The pre-fetched stuff was a waste of effort but took a while to be replaced each time it was wrong.

They instead went to much shorter pre-fetch sequences and two-core processor chips. We are now into at least the third generation of those, and the performance difference is amazing. I went from XP 2GHz P4 with XP SP2 with (I think) 2GB RAM to a Core2 Duo at 2.2Ghz with 3GB RAM on Vista to current 2.3GHz i5 v2 with 6GB RAM on 64-bit Win 7.

There was a quantum leap in performance on each occasion, and both the first two slowed dramatically over time. I still use the Core2 Duo at times and it is now quite slow, and not just in comparison to the new one. The XP machine is effectively unusable.

How much RAM has yours got, and when it freezes is the disc drive going frantic? Does the cooling fan speed up?

Previously you told us the whole PC freezes while this problem occurs and you you couldn't do anything with it. Now you say it can be responsive in some ways, so it's not completely dead.

I think you really mean that your browser freezes while surfing the web. You probably have the browser full screen so you can't get to anything else easily.

Next time this occurs try running some non-Net program like Word or Excel and see if that runs normally. If necessary, close or kill the browser session.

We really need to see the router stats when the problem occurs, and compare them with those when it doesn't. There is no reason why you shouldn't be able to achieve this. If necessary, close or kill the current browser session and start a new one. To prevent it attempting to access the Web, remove its home page and/or pull the cable from the phone socket.

I really don't think you need mess about with 3 computers just to investigate one connection..

And what's the laptop's spec? It's likely to be more up-to-date, yet it is experiencing the same issue.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I really don't think you need mess about with 3 computers just to investigate one connection..

When you are dealing with an OP not too advanced in the ways of computers, and a computer that is freezing and unresponsive and who has said they already cant get into router stats when this happens, then my instructions will get a lot of useful information in 5 minutes flat. There's no messing about, it is simple and efficient - and anybody can do it.

I will know the true status of the ADSL sync, authentication, internet connection and LAN connections including IP addresses when the issue occurs. And I will know the router stats when the issue does not occur, because I asked for them.

You will know everything!

Ram 1GB 1024 mb

No fan is not working franticlly, it might do occassionally when it has been on for more than 24hrs, but that is not very often.

OK, so it doesn't sound as though the processor is getting hammered then, but it is possible the disc is working solidly when this happens. Can you watch its active light and compare OK working with freeze working?

What spec is the borrowed laptop? I get the impression that could be even lower than your own computer.

Also, had the laptop been brought up to date with Windows updates when you were trying it, or might it have been downloading and installing those? That would cause an apparent freeze.

When I have time I'll do a bit of playing around with Task Manager Performance tab. I rarely use it so your description of what the graphs are doing mean little to me, but are possibly very useful once I have done that.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 07-Jan-12 13:47:24)

Spec of laptop

Acer

Microst Windows XP Pro
Version 2002 servioce pack 3

2.00 GH 952 mb ram

HD 149 gb freespace 124 gb

No there where no updates happening at that time

1) Router states PC1

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6464 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 34.3 dB 20.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 22.0 dB

Reading from PC2

the only thing that has changed at all this evening is

the nosie margin level downstream it is moving from 6.0dB to 6.5dB or in between, but I have not had much problem this morning with freezing or hanging, so I will give it another go tomorrow, must admit since the BT outreach engineer has been I have not had so much of a problem, I did notice about three hours after he went, I lost my internet completly for about 5 mins dont now what that was about.

Edited by deleted (Sun 08-Jan-12 03:19:53)

So a lower spec still.

Is there anyone you know who has a modern laptop, preferably a Win 7 one, that could come and see how that does on your connection?

The thing is I could be taking you down completely the wrong path, and that would show it. If that freezes then it eliminates the computers, if it runs fine then it is the computers. The PS3 stopping as well points at the router or the other side of it - I'd forgotten about that.

Hmm the only person I now is my son-in-law but he uses it for work, dont think he will lend it to me, but I can ask anyway. Dont now of any own else

As I said, it could be a red herring anyway, because of the PS3 same trouble, but ....

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

As I said, it could be a red herring anyway, because of the PS3 same trouble, but ....

Yes, that indicates there is probably a router or ISP related problem, rather than a computer-only problem.

Slower connection that expected, so there may be some phone line/extension issues to look at.

Has anyone asked you how the IP addresses are setup on the local network? Are all devices getting their IP address automatically (called DHCP), or have they been set by hand?

The latter will cause problems if two machines share the same LAN IP address, and can make the internet appear impossible to access.

Issue apparently happens when single computer connected only.

No phone extensions, one line in with one box.

Automatic

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6464 Kbps 448 Kbps
Line Attenuation 34.3 dB 20.0 dB
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 22.0 dB

Noise margin has gone down to 5.8 an upto 6.4 through out the day
Internet light solid green when freezing/hanging happens flashing green the rest of the time
Broad band light solid green

So are these stats during freezing or not? We've seen the unfrozen stats; we need the frozen ones.

No need to worry about NM varying by +/- 0.5.

Methinks sounds like a Case for The MTU

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

They are the stats when freezing the only thing that changes is the noise margin the others do not move.

Ah, good! That shows there is nowt wrong with connection.

So, the whole PC was not frozen when you got these stats. Tell me a bit more about what you had to do to get them apropos my advice in http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4079778-r... and how well did non-Net apps run? Previously you said you couldn't get the stats while frozen. What's now diff?

MTU = Maximum Transmission Unit, the size of the largest packet that a network protocol can transmit. Choosing the wrong value for this in router or PC can often lead to systems playing up. For starters, tell me the value in the Settings of the router, prob in WAN Setup of Netgear.

MTU 1492

I had the lap top connected and did it from there, on my computer you can only get to read the stats 1 in 5, so I read it on the laptop.

Other applications work fine when not on the internet, if I can get to them like word run very slow in fact at a smails pace, and can be difficult to work in.

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Other applications work fine ... if I can get to them like word run very slow

Rather contradictory! Are they fine or not? If slow, look at Task Manager Processes, what progs are consuming the CPU?

Try with MTU = 1454 in router for time being and see if any improvement.

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

Other applications work fine when not on the internet, if I can get to them like word run very slow in fact at a smails pace, and can be difficult to work in.

.

Yes very misleading, sorry wrote this just before I went to bed and was tired.


Applications do work fine when off the web.

When on the web if I can get on to word it runs very slow, and difficult to work with.

Will check the CPU usage when this happens.

Being on the web should make no difference to how an locally running application like word runs.

e.g. I can have word running and switch off my broadband and it has no impact on word at all.

Time to look at what the computer is really doing, and what applications are shifting traffic around. With 1GB of memory, running word and Internet explorer might be too much for the machine.

You have I presume ran full virus and malware scans of the machine?

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

When on the web if I can get on to word it runs very slow, and difficult to work with.

Even when the Net is running OK, i.e. not frozen?

This is getting confusing! You really need to be more exact in saying what is happening in relation to the problem you want solving.

This thread has reminded me that I might need to recalibrate my MTU on XP with the move from LLU to WBC.

I did so and found I could increase it from 1454 to 1500

When web browser freezes or hanges-

The area connection % can go from 0% upto 4% to 8% then back down again

The CPU usage is normally up and down from 0% to 4% to 7% to 22% then goes back down again in a similar pattern.

When trying to open the word doc when web frozen or hanging,

the CPU usage spikes to 100% then comes down again in amounts similar to these 16% 0% 2% 14% it can be spiking up and down like that for 5 to 10 secs then returns to a more normal pattern or until I ask it to preform something else.

It has not been so glitch tonight, I have turned of the wirless in my router, (I have this on for my Blackberry as I get no mobile phone connection where I live) and the webpages dont seem to be freezing so much.

Forgot to mention: when the freezing or hanging happens I used to get once in a while adobe flash plugin has crashed, this has been happening more lately also script stopped this is happening more, adobe flash plugin is the latest, I have uninstalled it and reinstalled it once to make sure it was not a bad instalation

Edited by deleted (Tue 10-Jan-12 01:46:57)

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

the CPU usage spikes to 100%

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

what progs are consuming the CPU?

while that happens exactly? Look at Process Tab & click CPU header to order them.

Have you tried playing with the MTU yet?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 10-Jan-12 01:59:11)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

This thread has reminded me that I might need to recalibrate my MTU on XP with the move from LLU to WBC.

I did so and found I could increase it from 1454 to 1500

Hi XRaySpeX, thanks for that info I have now changed my MTU from 1492 to 1500 and it works a treat on Orange with WBC and my (downstream/upstream) speeds have increased.

Maximum Transmission Unit (MTU): 1500

Primary Domain Name Server: 193.36.79.101
Secondary Domain Name Server: 193.36.79.100

In reply to a post by E7er:

I have now changed my MTU from 1492 to 1500

In router, in XP PC or both?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 11-Jan-12 08:46:24)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by E7er:

I have now changed my MTU from 1492 to 1500

In router, in XP PC or both?

Have changed MTU setting in the router and the MTU setting with DrTCP in Windows XP.

http://help.expedient.net/broadband/mtu_ping_test.shtml

Ping www.expedient.net �f �l 1472

1472 + 28 = 1500 which makes the MTU 1500

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping www.expedient.net -f -l 1472

Pinging www.expedient.net [206.210.68.123] with 1472 bytes of data:

Reply from 206.210.68.123: bytes=1472 time=158ms TTL=44
Reply from 206.210.68.123: bytes=1472 time=155ms TTL=44
Reply from 206.210.68.123: bytes=1472 time=159ms TTL=44
Reply from 206.210.68.123: bytes=1472 time=152ms TTL=44

Ping statistics for 206.210.68.123:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 152ms, Maximum = 159ms, Average = 156ms

http://www.ehow.com/how_5885061_flush-dns-windows-xp...

Have changed MTU setting in the router and the MTU setting with DrTCP in Windows XP.

What about RWIN?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

]what progs are consuming the CPU?

firefox.exe
plugincontainer.exe
AAWservice.exe
taskmanger.exe
AVGIDSagent.exe
ttbn=meter.exe
svhost.exe
winword.exe
systems ide pocess
explorer.exe

(other times I have others running)

Have you tried playing with the MTU yet?

Have tried but as yet made no difference.

I will still reiterate this happens more in the time fram of 8pm to 3pm

The rest of the day from 8am to 5pm computer does not have to many probs

Yes, but which ones have high %ages and what are the %ages?

MTU = 1454 made no diff and you given it a chance? Now try MTU = 1500.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 11-Jan-12 14:19:09)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Have changed MTU setting in the router and the MTU setting with DrTCP in Windows XP.

What about RWIN?

I didn�t think of him RWIN.

Okay here goes�

Take your average latency, which is average ping time in ms, multiply that number by your proposed (advertised) speed and divide that value by 8. You have your raw RWIN.

156ms average latency x 1.5, with 20,000Kbps available (purchased) downstream bandwidth:

234 x 20,000kbps = 4680000 divided by 8 = 585000 RWIN.

It comes to the same with the RWIN caculator.

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/tweaks/5._RWIN#677

And you have it set to what? If around there it should be fine anyway, but IIRC the XP default is around 65,000.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

And you have it set to what? If around there it should be fine anyway, but IIRC the XP default is around 65,000.

I used the caculated 585000 RWIN and set it in Windows XP with DrTCP.

I rebooted the computer and all is working fine, thanks for the RWIN prompt.

http://www.dslreports.com/drtcp

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/tweaks

My 2Wire 2700HGV router stats - Downstream speed has lowered due to rebooting router a few times.
View Broadband Link Details
DSL Connection Details
DSL Line (Wire Pair): Line 1 (inner pair)
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11443 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1169 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 6.7 dB (Downstream), 6.6 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 30.7 dB (Downstream), 11.6 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.6 dBm (Downstream), 12.4 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}

Edited by deleted (Wed 11-Jan-12 18:52:17)

Any noticeable improvement? What was it before?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Any noticeable improvement? What was it before?

On Orange WBC I should have changed the MTU to 1500 from day one, have been using 1492 which was used for Orange LLU.

Tweak Tester does say I should lower the RWIN to between 188340 and 500780 but it seems to be working okay for now with the 585000 RWIN, I get transfer efficiency: 100%

http://www.dslreports.com/tweakr/block:5aa511e?servi...

I get RWIN = 37500 from your calculation, but TCPOptimizer reckons it's 1027840.

Where do you get such a high 156ms average latency? It's only 10 ms from me to bbc.co.uk. Or are you meant to average your pings to everywhere?

In reply to a post by E7er:

have been using 1492 which was used for Orange LLU

On Orange LLU, I had calculated it to be only 1454.

Some info on TCP Receive Windows:

The calculation for Bandwidth Delay Product (BDP) is straightforward and not a matter of opinion. BDP = bandwidth * round-trip time. These values have units which must co-ordinate. We are simply working out how much data must fill the round-trip time in order to fulfill the bandwidth.

If an application does not specify a max receive window size, then XP looks at the local network connection PHY rate and uses ~17KB for 1-100Mbps, and ~64KB for >100Mbps connections. If a Tcpwindowsize registry entry exists however, then this takes preference over the PHY rate determination.

If you want to manually set Tcpwindowsize to equal the BDP of a connection, then the calculation reduces to: Tcpwindowsize = (125 * Bandwidth in Mbps * Round-trip time in ms). For 19Mb/s bandwidth and a RTT of 156ms, BDP = 370500 bytes.

For different connections, the RTT is obviously very different depending primarily on location. Therefore the choice of RTT value to use will depend on which connections you wish to optimise. RTTs over 100ms are frequently used to pick a Tcpwindowsize value in order to allow for eg transatlantic connections.

However, there is a good reason a huge receive window size is not the default and why it should not be set (the trouble with XP is what goes for one connection, goes for all). For wireless connections, I personally believe the values for Tcpwindowsize used by some and as determined by calculators/auto-tuners (in the hundreds of thousands of bytes) are too high for most users.

And on MTU:

For an ADSL connection, hardware is not at the limits of its packets per seconds. Therefore advantage comes only in terms of overhead. Either way, this means diddly squat throughput improvement.

Orange LLU always had an MTU of 1492. On BTw it is now 1500.

More info here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7799

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Felizdia:

]what progs are consuming the CPU?

firefox.exe
plugincontainer.exe
AAWservice.exe
taskmanger.exe
AVGIDSagent.exe
ttbn=meter.exe
svhost.exe
winword.exe
systems ide pocess
explorer.exe

(other times I have others running)

Have you tried playing with the MTU yet?

Have tried but as yet made no difference.

I will still reiterate this happens more in the time fram of 8pm to 3pm

The rest of the day from 8am to 5pm computer does not have to many probs

With respect, I think you've got your a.m.'s & p.m.'s a little confused. BTW, Orange did everything to keep us, after a 3 year stint, but could not guarantee a decent/consistent download speed. Now with BT (from mid Dec 2011), yes we will be paying more in the 2nd year, when the incentives drop off, but life's too short to put up with the DLM we experienced daily from Orange.
P.S. I got 4 routers from them in the last year! Good luck.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I get RWIN = 37500 from your calculation, but TCPOptimizer reckons it's 1027840.

Where do you get such a high 156ms average latency? It's only 10 ms from me to bbc.co.uk. Or are you meant to average your pings to everywhere?

For a good average ping it should be over a long distance equivalent to coast to coast in the USA, so I ping between the UK and USA with the data services website www.expedient.net

http://help.expedient.net/broadband/mtu_ping_test.shtml

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by E7er:

have been using 1492 which was used for Orange LLU

On Orange LLU, I had calculated it to be only 1454.

I got MTU 1492 setting from the Orange help/support and they are still claiming it should be 1492 but I find 1500 works better with WBC.

Instructions on the Orange website...
MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit)
In case of problems with a third party router, change MTU to 1492 (Livebox default setting)

http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/2...

Thanks, an excellent explanation.

It seems to me that RWIN is not that important unless you are downloading loads from afar on a fast connection and you need it ASAP.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Thanks, an excellent explanation.

It seems to me that RWIN is not that important unless you are downloading loads from afar on a fast connection and you need it ASAP.

You're welcome.

RWIN is just an abbreviation for maximum Receive Window, which is negotiatied at the start of every TCP connection. So, it is of course necessary. And the value of RWIN is in fact crucial to the throughput performance of any network connection. RWIN is a TCP feature, it is nothing to do with XP per se.

The same goes for Bandwidth Delay Product, which is something different to RWIN. BDP is just a theoretical calculation, an important one because if RWIN<BDP for a connection, then actual throughput<bandwidth. For this reason, it is often said that RWIN should be equal to or greater than the BDP.

Tcpwindowsize is something different again. It is an XP registry entry that sets the RWIN for all connections used by that interface, unless an application sets it itself. So, you can say that in Windows XP, it is recommended to set the RWIN to the BDP by changing the Tcpwindowsize.

Remember, we are talking about single connections here. Not necessarily single downloads, which can use multiple simultaneous connections. So RWIN may not be limiting on for example speedtest.net or torrents which use multiple connections, but it may be limiting on a simple download using a single-connection.

If Tcpwindowsize is not manually entered, the default RWIN in XP ~17KB for interfaces operating locally at 1-100Mbps. Even at a low internet round trip time of 25ms, this limits throughput to 5Mbps!

Therefore, my personal advice if using XP on an ADSL connection, is to always set Tcpwindowsize to a minimum of ~64000 bytes. This can increase to 8x, depending on your bandwidth and download habits and locations and simultaneous connections. Huge values should never be entered (some people just enter millions of bytes), and larger values should be used cautiously especially on error-prone lines or if using wireless rather than ethernet. Once youve done the simple calculation and narrowed tcpwindowsize down to 2 or 3 values, empirical testing using these different values and downloads from global servers is the best method of selection.