Re Speeds on ADSL2+

Just a recap: after migrating to Zen last November, my Netgear 834g was still dropping connections a lot, as it had been doing for some time.
Zen tech services suggested the router at fault, and/or possibly the internal wiring. Got a new Billion 7800n which immediately fixed that and has never dropped the connection. Then, because speeds weren't terrific, I ordered a new BT master socket to be fitted and in December the engineer also fitted a new cable from the point it reaches the house.. My speed increased from 4.5 to approx 6.5.
Then last month I asked to be upgraded to ADSL2+ which was done within 24 hours.

After RobertoS suggested a few changes in my router settings, the speed settled at around 6.6-6.7 with .93up. The down speed only increased slightly, but the up speed doubled.
We had a power cut on Jan 23rd and it re-synced at 7.4 but a re-sync in daylight next day put it back slightly lower than it had been before. My line profile is 6880.
The router (wired) has been solidly connected with steady speeds for the full 3 weeks now.

Checks indicate the exchange is 1.6km, but Zen reckon it's actually nearer to 2.7/3, and could be why I don't get a better speed.
I'm approx 70mts from my cabinet.

Now I tried the BT tester and got:
Down 6.68 up (max achievable 7.15)
Up .973 (max achievable 832)

This is my router stats:
DSP Firmware Version A2pB025f.d22k
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 1095
Downstream 7799
SNR Margin(Upstream) 5.8
SNR Margin(Downstream) 5.1
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 22.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 46.0

The SNR down has varied between 4.8 and 5.9 depending on time of day ever since, but in the past 12 days it's been 5.4-6.3.

Trisha.

Edited by deleted (Thu 16-Feb-12 00:32:58)

Stats are good. What's the problem?

NM will vary over the day around 6 +/- 1 dB. Reconnect during daylight hours, measure immediately and you should find it on 6 more or less.

Hi XRaySpeX - RobertoS said he wasn't happy with the speeds I'm getting so I gave a re-cap and the latest stats etc.
These latest stats are what's currently showing after a daylight reconnect 22 days ago.

BT speed tests are showing an upstream IP Profile of 832kbps, but with higher than that upload. I'm puzzled.

Sync's aren't too bad, I agree.

Hm-mm! Then you were complaining about the BT speedtester as others were.

Here you show your own router stats are OK.

A quirk of the BT speedtester we've seen occasionally before.

Just ignore it and take an independent speed test , like TBB's, 2 at night before retiring .

That isn't the same as the misbehaviour it is currently doing. It's also showing her with a downstream one of 7.15Mbps, ....ahhh .

@Trishah, please can your copy and paste the actual contents of the download and upload text boxes from your next BT speed test?

Max Achievable isn't same as IP Profile, is it?

It certainly is misbehaving currently :

HTTP Status 404 - /PerformanceTester/applet/progressbar/progressbar.html

HTTP Status 500 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
type Exception report

message
description The server encountered an internal error () that prevented it from fulfilling this request.

exception
java.lang.IllegalStateException: Cannot forward after response has been committed

It certainly is flaky there days. Prob since they recoded it to remove Sync Speeds (EDIT). Can we trust it?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 16-Feb-12 01:15:41)

Yes - will do.
I'll try it tomorrow.

Thanks.

The flakiness appears to be geographic.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 25 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 12 Mbps-38.72 Mbps .
Additional Information:
IP Profile for your line is - 38.72 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 1.6Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 2 Mbps

And here:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 13.75 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 18.62 Mbps

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 832Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Both our Download speed achieved are atrocious, particularly yours.

So I got me a speed test here: Which is more believable?

Also my Upload speed achieved = Upstream Rate IP profile?

?
I'm lost now.

You've replied to me, quoted a speed test from somewhere, (which I think is the OP), and say my download speed is atrocious?

I think you're catching my "loss of concentration" problem .

Let's see what transpires.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

@Trishah, please can your copy and paste the actual contents of the download and upload text boxes from your next BT speed test?

The BT test completed fairly quickly this morning:

Download Speed
6.75 Mbps
0 Kbps 7.15 Mbps Max Achievable Speed
Download speed achieved during the test was - 6.75 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 6.88 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
969 Kbps
0 Kbps 832 Kbps Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 969Kbps
Additional Information: Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Still got the wacky result on the up speed.

Three weeks ago, you advised: "leave it alone for a fortnight and see if it drops the SNR back to 3dB"
Well it hasn't - this is right now:
Upstream 1095
Downstream 7799
SNR Margin(Upstream) 5.8
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.3
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 22.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 46.0

It's now a very stable connection though - never dropped for almost 23 days and speed has been consistent all day/night.

The drops to 3dB target margin as with other margin drops look at error rates as well as up times.

So it is by no means a certainty.

The speed is perfectly ok for that attenuation, if it was me I'd just get on and use the connection.

Thanks MrSaffron - I'm happy with the connection - moving to Zen was a good thing.
With the terrific help I've had here and from their tech support in pinpointing a router and perhaps an internal wiring problem, I have a better connection than I've had for a long while.
I still think about FTTC - just not sure I can justify getting it.

Yes I was disappointed at not getting a higher ADSL2+ speed, but I understood why once the attenuation was explained, so that's OK

Until a couple of days ago, I'd never seen the BT tester report a higher up speed than the 'max achievable' speed though.

When I say OUR achieved speeds were atrocious, i'm talking pro rata; what else?

Yours was only 65% of IPP; mine 74%.

Have a reread and see if you can get my point.

Yes, I think we have to accept your ADSL2+ as it is now. Might be worth asking Zen if they can explain the IP Profile but it clearly isn't doing anything anyway. Maybe not worth the hassle.

As for FTTC, very much a question of need or not, or just the warm feeling of having it. There are cheaper ways of getting a warm feeling. Woolly hats and bedsocks fro instance.

Actually, my wife now swears by the microwave "Hottie" I recently got her!

Thanks - my connection is great compared to how it was last October before I migrated and got the issues sorted out.
The better up speed means it does website updates fast enough, and Outlook emails a 2MB image file in around 18 seconds, so it's fine for my work needs.

FTTC is still a bit tempting ..likely because I got a great computer last year, now a new ISP, good router, new master socket - suppose it's only natural to want the best connection
I'll see how it goes for a few months. Always an option.

As for a microwave hottie ...I often work until 2am plus, so that's a great idea - as I get more tired, I can get cold!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

.... Actually, my wife now swears by the microwave "Hottie" I recently got her!

OT but I got the wife these a couple of years ago along with battery operated heated gloves.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hotties-Microhottie-Microwav... Leaves hot-water bottles for cold.

Excellent.

Maybe you would prefer http://www.amazon.co.uk/Intelex-Cozy-Plush-Microwave...

Anyway, lots at Amazon.

I'm pretty sure our dogs would growl at those.
Cozy though!

Nice! looks very useful for times when joints ache too ...I'll defnitely get one of those.

The plush ones are nice too ..the pink elephant may be distracting though

In reply to a post by TrishaH:

..the pink elephant may be distracting though

I'm always too warm as it is and I see plenty of pink elephants with the drugs that I take!

All legally prescribed of course!!!

Edited by Deadbeat (Thu 16-Feb-12 23:23:16)

...well, in that case Happy Pink Elephants!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Yes, I think we have to accept your ADSL2+ as it is now.

Well, it was working fine with consistent speed etc.
Had a resync on 24th Feb and got a higher speed (7.3) with SNR down going as low as 2.3 after around 6pm. Attenuation stayed as it had been more or less.

Then I had a WAN disconnect on March 4th at around 10pm - up/down 1067/7451 and snr up/down 7/7.4

On 6th there was another at approx 1.30am - up/down 1067/7663 and snr up/down 6.9/5.8.

Now tonight (7th) I had another at 23.39 - up/down 1071/7543 and snr up/down 7/6.5

My down speed is now around 6.4

Also, I actually saw a yellow exclamation on the system tray icon while working online yesterday and it returned to normal after a few seconds and the page finished loading, but there was no drop/disconnect recorded.

We've had nothing change since my last posts - no new electrical items, no wiring moved. The only new item is a replacement USB keyboard connected on 29th Feb.
These 'drops' are a mystery to me. I just tried a quiet line test and it just sounds like a line where no-one is speaking ...no crackles or particular hiss.

Ever since I got this router last December it has never dropped connection of it's own accord until now and is still wired with no wireless enabled.
The filter is one supplied by BT openreach when they put in the new socket and cabling last December.

Should I unplug the router around mid-day for a few minutes to see if it gets a better connection (the speed isn't a problem but would like the connection to remain stable)

Need to see the current stats Trishah. It's possible they will show you could get better speed, but that it is likely to be more stable as it is.

Did you get a "Hottie"?

Yes, got a hottie thanks ..brilliant for cold feet!

Stats:
DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode
ADSL2+
Upstream 1071
Downstream 7543
SNR Margin(Upstream) 7.0
SNR Margin(Downstream) 8.3
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 22.7
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 45.5

ADSL
Model Name BiPAC 7800N
Host Name home. gateway
System Up-Time 12 Day(s) 23 Hour(s)
Current Time Thu Mar 8 12:35:55 2012
Hardware Version Annex A
Software Version 1.06d

WAN
Port Protocol VPI/VCI Connection
ADSL PPPoA 0/38 12:55:08

Speedtest.net gives 6.45/0/91

BT Speedtester 12.43 pm today:
Download Speed
6.61 Mbps
0 Kbps 7.15 Mbps Max Achievable Speed
Download speed achieved during the test was - 6.61 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 6.65 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
901 Kbps
0 Kbps 832 Kbps Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 901Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Remains to be seen if there's any more late night drops, but I do keep checking.

If you're happy with the speed I would leave it as it is and see how things go.

Quite simply, your two night-time disconnects could have been due to unusual noise spikes, or just to a tiny amount over the "normal for your line" variation over 24 hours.

If the former, then a daytime reconnection would get you a bit more speed. Until it fell over at night again after a few days.

If the latter, the noise margin is now a bit higher than it used to be, and any badly affected bins less used, so there is less chance of any more night-time disconnections.

I'm OK with the speed - it was funny that all the time it had a higher speed (7.3 or so), the SNR down got as low as 2.1 on occasion at night, but each time it's got a bit less speed, the SNR margin rises as you can see.

Three disconnects and all late at night, so unless it's something to do with the line, likely something not fixable or easy to find (i.e outside somewhere) - but I thought I'd ask because it's been rock steady until this week.

Yes the noise margin is higher than after I first moved to ADSL2+

I'll do as you suggest and leave it be to see how it goes.

Up to this evening, I was thinking it had settled back down again after almost 4 days without problem, but at 19.40pm the WAN connection was lost again.
Took it a couple of attempts to reconnect, and when it did, it looks almost like I have the same speeds I had on standard ADSL:

DMT Status No Defect
Operational Mode ADSL2+
Upstream 571
Downstream 7771
SNR Margin(Upstream) 6.2
SNR Margin(Downstream) 6.2
Line Attenuation(Upstream) 22.8
Line Attenuation(Downstream) 46.0

ADSL interface:
WAN Interface
ADSL Mode Annex L Annex M
Modulator ADSL2 ADSL2+ G.Lite T1.413 G.Dmt
Capability SRA Enable
PhyR Upstream Downstream

Speed tests with BT and speedtest.com both show a lower up speed and slightly increased down speed:
BT: 6.79 / .541

Speedtests (3): 6.65 / .48 (was always 6.46 / .92 since ADSL2+)

SNR right now is 6.2 Down and 8.1 Up.

Is this sort of thing unusual ?

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Mar-12 00:15:13)

Hard to define "unusual" in this context.

For me it is highly unusual to get any disconnections at all. On the other hand, MrSaffron has often said that a disconnection a day is quite normal. Both on his lines and for posters here.

What you have got there is that slight increase in speed I thought was possible but advised against seeking. I think you may get an occasional yo-yo effect.

Thanks - just seems odd (quite disappointingly so) after so solid a connection since getting the router and new socket etc.
The down speed isn't bothering me, but the up speed seems to have halved almost to what it was before ADSL2+ - I wondered if it had 'gone backover'

I do recall Zen tech telling me there were some errors (up I think) when the new socket had been fitted late December, but I can't see those errors so don't know if they're still there - perhaps I should ask them. Whatever, until the past two weeks the router never disconnected by itself since Dec 12th when I got it.

Do these same sort of disconnections apply with FTTC? (the cabinet is only around 50-60 yards from us)

I think it must be sleep-time for me, I missed the upstream drop.

Very tired, so don't rely too much on this bit, but it sounds as though it is an upstream problem causing the drops. This could be at the exchange end. I think it may be an idea to talk to Zen about this latest change, as you are thinking.

Just seen the SRA Enable in those stats. Another daytime job, I suggest you disable that. That I expect will cause a reconnection. SRA is not implemented on BT Wholesale circuits. It probably won't make any difference, but we are looking for the straws to clutch.

If there is a problem between you and the cabinet then FTTC would be affected. If it is a dodgy connection inside the cabinet that would probably be re-made or changed during FTTC installation. If it is the other side of the cabinet it would almost certainly be fixed by FTTC as only the phone service would be using the existing circuit. The broadband would be via the fibre to a different connection in the exchange.

That's OK - I'm tired now too Tomorrow/today would have been fine.

I just found 'SRA' again, and it's just the way it copied it - there's a box to tick next to it for enabling, and it's not ticked. (same with the different modulators - there's only the first two and the last one ticked).

Don't know if it would help, but I copied the router log - looked like a bit more 'stuff' compared to previous drops, but I don't understand most of it anyway ...something about 'waiting for ppp to be free' and a number of lines with 'rm' and 'ethctl', plus the usual steps it goes through.

If there's nothing obvious to check/try, then I'll get in touch with Zen to see if they know what the problem is.

Things get odder!
I just sat down to phone Zen and before I could, the power went off for the whole house - pushed the main board switch back up and it came back on!
No-one around to check if it was a general power cut or just in our house! Will find out later.

Result is of course, the router resynced. It seems to have regained it's up speed, and now has a faster down speed. Remains to be seen how that works out - suppose I'll leave all alone and see.

These are the new stats right after re-starting everything:

ROUTER STATUS
System Up-Time 12 min(s)
Current Time Mon Mar 12 14:51:40 2012
Hardware Version Annex A
Software Version 1.06d

Physical Port Status
Ethernet
EWAN X
ADSL 1099 / 8303 kbps
Wireless X

WAN
Connection
ADSL PPPoA 0/38 00:11:05

BT Test:
Download Speed
7.14 Mbps
0 Kbps 7.15 Mbps Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 7.14 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 7.32 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
1.03 Mbps
0 Kbps 832 Kbps Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 1.03Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Speedtest.net gives me 7.03 / .93 (same server I always get)
Again, BT shows higher speeds than Speedtest, and higher than 'attainable' on the up speed.

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Mar-12 17:05:57)

Things get odder!

Indeed they do.

Your downstream connection speed is now marginally higher than the best expected for your attenuation .

Yes, it is - has been since mid-February ...I think that was when the BT tester changed somewhat. That's when it started giving up speeds higher than attainable, and both up/down speeds higher than speedtest.net etc.

SNR is 6.3 down and 5.6 up at the moment.

If that power cut wasn't a general one, but within our house, we'll need to get the panel box checked. Neither of us had just switched anything on/off at the time it went down, and the heating is off.

I'll keep a record of the WAN drops etc and if it happens again perhaps should contact Zen to see if it's an exchange problem.

In reply to a post by TrishaH:

MAC Address 00:11:22:33:44:55

I should blank this out.

Thank you! - done that