up to 8mb and up to 20?

Hi, when i ahd a up to 8mb service with o2 i had 2mb.

So will I get more when I switch to up to 20mb? or is my line only capable of 2...

There's a good chance you won't see any higher. But, ...... can you post your stats from the your router, showing sync, attenuation, snr, etc ? This could shed some light on the issue.

I'm with Virgin Media at the moment so I don't have copper wires

And also, only from November was I seeing issues. Unfortunately I decided not to look further into it and I just switched to Virgin Media so I don't know whether it was an issue or not. All the estimate websites says my line is capable of 78-megs though I've heard they're often unreliable.

If it is the case that I get only 2mb, the only other option would be to go for BT Infinity as Virgin Media has poor service in our area. Trobuel is on the website it says Infinity will be avalible from 30th of March. Are they known to knock back these dates?

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

I'm with Virgin Media at the moment so I don't have copper wires

YOU DO HAVE COPPER!

Why do people seem to think that virgin dont have any copper. The cable coming into your house is a copper Coax from the street!

It's only fibre to the local cabinet, it's pure copper from there on, just like Openreach FTTC

Only difference is Openreach use Twisted-Pair telephone cable and Virgin use Coaxial TV Cable.


EVERY ISP up and down the country uses fibre at some point in the network, and it annoys me why Virgin get away with claiming they are the only fibre provider

and also if I go with a different ASDL provider (BE? Sky?) I'll get the same result? Only 2megs?

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

and also if I go with a different ASDL provider (BE? Sky?) I'll get the same result? Only 2megs?

Probably, depends on your line distance and quality. And also if FTTC is avalible in your area

Impossible to answer accurately based on the scant data

Ok, my bad xD

So how do I check the stats like SNR?



Connection

Startup Procedure
Procedure Status Comment
Acquire Downstream Channel 314750000 Hz Locked
Connectivity State OK Operational
Boot State OK Operational
Configuration File OK
Security Enabled BPI+
Downstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power SNR Docsis/EuroDocsis locked
Locked QAM256 102 55616000 Kbits/sec 314750000 Hz 8.5 dBmV 44.1 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 97 55616000 Kbits/sec 290750000 Hz 10.0 dBmV 44.6 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 98 55616000 Kbits/sec 298750000 Hz 9.8 dBmV 44.7 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 101 55616000 Kbits/sec 306750000 Hz 9.2 dBmV 44.1 dB Hybrid
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power
Locked ATDMA 4 20480 Kbits/sec 45800000 Hz 42.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Primary Downstream Service Flow
Downstream(0)
SFID 2346
Max Traffic Rate 33330000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 3044 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Primary Upstream Service Flow
Upstream(0)
SFID 2345
Max Traffic Rate 3333000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 8160 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst 8160 bytes
Scheduling Type Best Effort
Current System Time:Thu Mar 01 20:40:05 2012


Is that what your after? The connection stats inside my superhub

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

Ok, my bad xD

So how do I check the stats like SNR?



Connection

Startup Procedure
Procedure Status Comment
Acquire Downstream Channel 314750000 Hz Locked
Connectivity State OK Operational
Boot State OK Operational
Configuration File OK
Security Enabled BPI+
Downstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power SNR Docsis/EuroDocsis locked
Locked QAM256 102 55616000 Kbits/sec 314750000 Hz 8.5 dBmV 44.1 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 97 55616000 Kbits/sec 290750000 Hz 10.0 dBmV 44.6 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 98 55616000 Kbits/sec 298750000 Hz 9.8 dBmV 44.7 dB Hybrid
Locked QAM256 101 55616000 Kbits/sec 306750000 Hz 9.2 dBmV 44.1 dB Hybrid
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV 0.0 dB Unknown
Upstream Channels
Lock Status Modulation Channel ID Max Raw Bit Rate Frequency Power
Locked ATDMA 4 20480 Kbits/sec 45800000 Hz 42.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Unlocked Unknown 0 0 Ksym/sec 0 Hz 0.0 dBmV
Primary Downstream Service Flow
Downstream(0)
SFID 2346
Max Traffic Rate 33330000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 3044 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Primary Upstream Service Flow
Upstream(0)
SFID 2345
Max Traffic Rate 3333000 bps
Max Traffic Burst 8160 bytes
Mix Traffic Rate 0 bps
Max Concatenated Burst 8160 bytes
Scheduling Type Best Effort
Current System Time:Thu Mar 01 20:40:05 2012


Is that what your after? The connection stats inside my superhub

Not exactly, whilst they are the stats for your router, they are DOCSIS (Cable) Stats, what you really need is DSL (Phoneline) stats, whcih without a current DSL connection are impossible to get.

I think your best bet is to put your house number and postcode into an online checker, such as the one at BT.com

It will give you an estimate and tell you if FTTC is avalibe in your area, if it is, go for it!

Right the copper coax works differently to the copper twisted pair that ADSL is delivered over.

The person was playing semantics with you.

You cannot use your Virgin Media line to estimate your ADSL speeds.

If Fibre via Openreach (available from more than Infinity, e.g. Sky and TalkTalk) is coming in the next few weeks, then wait with Virgin until that is live and you should then be certain to go a lot faster than 2 Meg. Swithing provider now may land you in a contract with one who does not offer Fibre

I'm getting slightly worried about switching to Fibre as my Virgin Media up to 30mb Fibre service was good for 3 months but for the last two it has been terrible. Is this the same with all companies or just Virgin Media?

And can someone recommend good FTTC ISPs? Obviously it's different from everyone but I'd like some information/opinion to fall back on

BT Infinity is the simplest and best bet in your case I would suggest

You can never predict the performance of a service months down the line. Virgin is working to improve its network so things may improve, or it may take a year to improve.

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

I'm getting slightly worried about switching to Fibre as my Virgin Media up to 30mb Fibre service was good for 3 months but for the last two it has been terrible. Is this the same with all companies or just Virgin Media?

And can someone recommend good FTTC ISPs? Obviously it's different from everyone but I'd like some information/opinion to fall back on

Well, Virgin and Openreach fibre are totally different, so I would imagine it to be a different experience.

The big one is Bt Infinity, but other firms such as PlusNet, Sky etc all offer Fibre

Have a look on here first to see if your exchange supports fibre: http://www.superfast-openreach.co.uk/where-and-when/

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search is also a useful site, it will show you if your exchange supports FTTC, and also which providers in your area will offer LLU services.

LLU basically means the provider will connect your line to their network, making it cheaper and (usuallly) faster and more consistent.

Is openreach an actual ISP or is Infinity the ISP?

As O2 has an 30day cancel for free thing, would you guys suggest I try O2 out and then if that doesn't work by that time BT will have Infinity in my area and I could switch over? But I've heard that sometimes BT push back the dates when they launch infinity in some areas.

Link Information
Uptime:1 day, 2:53:30
DSL Type:G.992.5 annex A
Maximum Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:975 / 3,188
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]:979 / 2,288
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]:0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]:12.0 / 19.0
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]:17.0 / 33.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]:13.0 / 13.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote):TMMB / BDCM
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote):0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote):0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote):0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down):4 / 426
CRC Errors (Up/Down):4 / 3
HEC Errors (Up/Down):76,838 / 1

I dug this out, this is from November 2011. Apparently in those stats my SN Margin is too high, should be around 6dB. Assuming it stays too high is there any way to lower it?

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

Is openreach an actual ISP or is Infinity the ISP?

As O2 has an 30day cancel for free thing, would you guys suggest I try O2 out and then if that doesn't work by that time BT will have Infinity in my area and I could switch over? But I've heard that sometimes BT push back the dates when they launch infinity in some areas.

Openreach is the division of BT than builds and maintains the network. Infinity is a Product offered by BT (BT is the ISP in this case)
And yeah, they push it back My exchange (Aberdeen Denburn: NSDEN) was pushed back from march to june 2012.

Based purely on your line attenuation you should get about 12mb on ADSL2+

If FTTC is planned on your exchange anytime in the near future, I would go with a DSL provider that has a FTTC product now, and upgrade to FTTC when it becomes available. As it's just a different product with the same provider you should be ok with regard to your contract.

Edited by connormill (Thu 01-Mar-12 21:28:43)

Is openreach an actual ISP or is Infinity the ISP?

No and no.

Have a look at the Wiki links:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openreach

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Infinity

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Is openreach an actual ISP or is Infinity the ISP?

No and no.

Have a look at the Wiki links:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openreach

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Infinity

My bad, worded it wrong, I mean is BT the ISP.

---------
With regard to my cable speed, you guys estimated over 10megs, great but what about SN Margni? Sorry to say I have no idea what it is, so could anyone explain? And tell me if mine are too high? And if yes, how to lower them?

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

In reply to a post by Apprentice:

Is openreach an actual ISP or is Infinity the ISP?

No and no.

Have a look at the Wiki links:-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openreach

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Infinity

My bad, worded it wrong, I mean is BT the ISP.

---------
With regard to my cable speed, you guys estimated over 10megs, great but what about SN Margni? Sorry to say I have no idea what it is, so could anyone explain? And tell me if mine are too high? And if yes, how to lower them?

Yep, BT is the ISP.

Yeah, previously your SNR was too high, but I think your speed was capped, line attenuation of 33dB should give you at least 10mb, probably closer to 14mb on ADSL 2+

My suggestion to you would be to check if FTTC is coming to your area soon and if so, sign up to a DSL provider that has FTTC products (BT, Sky, Plusnet etc.)

If FTTC is not coming, I would just go with the DSL provider that offers the best product for what you need (usage limits etc.)

Out of curiosity what exchange are you on, and do you have Sky TV. If you have Sky TV, then Sky boradband will probably be your best bet. £7.50 for unlimited and 20mb download speed. But then again, it's maybe not the right package for you.

So are you saying my SN Margin aren't too high/ I needn't worry about them?

Also with regard to choosing ISPs would it be wise to go for O2, and if I don't like them within the 30 days trial period switch to BT Infinity.
Also would it be possible, if BT Infinity was bad, to downgrade to BT Total Broadband (ADSL) for free.

P.S You work for Sky, needless I say more ?

Edited by deleted (Thu 01-Mar-12 22:02:46)

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

So are you saying my SN Margin aren't too high/ I needn't worry about them?

Also with regard to choosing ISPs would it be wise to go for O2, and if I don't like them within the 30 days trial period switch to BT Infinity.
Also would it be possible, if BT Infinity was bad, to downgrade to BT Total Broadband (ADSL) for free.

P.S You work for Sky, needless I say more ?

Well yes and no, Do you know if FTTC is coming to your area, and if so, when?

Probably not, worth checking the fine print, most companies allow you to go up a package whilst still under contract, but not down.

With regards to downgrading, if the service on Infinity is poor then the service on ADSL (in theory) will be even worse.

And yeah, I do work for Sky, but if it helps, I hate it and am looking for another job! but their broadband is actually not bad, I've been a customer since way before i started working for them, only difference now is that I don't pay for it!

New service provider will manage the line differently, so the fact they were high previously is nothing to worry about

And also you say my connection was capped. Do you mean capped by traffic management or something else?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

New service provider will manage the line differently, so the fact they were high previously is nothing to worry about

But it's the same provider, O2.
Or do you mean instead of going to O2 if I go to, for example, BE, they'll manage it differently?
Either way that's great, thanks.

Traffic management never caps the line speeds, so it was not traffic management

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

And also you say my connection was capped. Do you mean capped by traffic management or something else?

A lot of provider implement DLM, which is constantly testing the line and checking for disconnection's. If it see's you are always disconnecting (even if it's just you turning off the router) it will slow your speed down to try and achieve a more stable line.

I'm massively oversimplifying things here, but that's it in a nutshell.

I am only speaking for Sky broadband here, but when it is connecting, the DLM starts you speed off low and slowly steps it up over the course of ten days until it finds a good balance of speed and reliability. During this time it is a really good idea to keep the router plugged it and connected to the network.

The best advice I could give you is to pick a provider based on all the previous advice and once you have one, plug the router into the master socket and leave it switched on for the first 2 weeks. Check out the stats then and if the sync speed is too low or the SNR is too high then get on your providers back. If it's all OK, then you live happily ever after!

Edited by connormill (Thu 01-Mar-12 22:21:39)

Even if you go to O2 you can if you talk to support get things changed.

Not slight intended, but given the questions you ask us, I can imagine you not getting very far with support lines

To be honest I haven't put this forward to support (I assume you mean phoning them?) but I have phoned O2 on other matters and they're very nice and UK based, not like Virgin's foreign centres, ugh.

Also, (not intending to insult your intelligence) but are you sure I can phone O2 about my SN Margins and get them sorted? Because I read (http://community.plus.net/blog/2007/10/05/snr-margins-what-and-why/) that changing them is a very complicated matter.

Also, off topic but does BE have a trial period like O2? Because this trial period is the only reason I'm swaying towards O2, I can't seem to find one in BE but it might be in the fine print?

In reply to a post by connormill:

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

And also you say my connection was capped. Do you mean capped by traffic management or something else?

A lot of provider implement DLM, which is constantly testing the line and checking for disconnection's. If it see's you are always disconnecting (even if it's just you turning off the router) it will slow your speed down to try and achieve a more stable line.

I'm massively oversimplifying things here, but that's it in a nutshell.

Firstly, thanks for simplifying, I have a headache lol.

Secondly, this might be the cause of the levels being too high since I kept on restarting my O2 Wireless Box as it seemed to fix the problems whenever I did have slow speeds lol. I'll be sure not to do that too often from now on.

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

To be honest I haven't put this forward to support (I assume you mean phoning them?) but I have phoned O2 on other matters and they're very nice and UK based, not like Virgin's foreign centres, ugh.

Also, (not intending to insult your intelligence) but are you sure I can phone O2 about my SN Margins and get them sorted? Because I read (http://community.plus.net/blog/2007/10/05/snr-margins-what-and-why/) that changing them is a very complicated matter.

Also, off topic but does BE have a trial period like O2? Because this trial period is the only reason I'm swaying towards O2, I can't seem to find one in BE but it might be in the fine print?

Again, I can't speak for O2, but with Sky, things like this can usually be fixed by phoning and asking for "tier 2" support, or by emailing them with your stats and your complaint and they can adjust it.

And keeping the router on *should* help with your SNR and line capping/DLM. If you are having constant problems maybe you should ask them for a replacement router.

If it was speed issues you were having it may have been high contention or a traffic management issue.

O2 doesn't have a DLM of the kind described. They do have a DLM that they run for the first 2-3 days, then it is switched off. Same with Be - it's the same DLM.

From your description of the O2 problem, and the stats you posted earlier, it seems you were getting greater than 6dB variation in margin, which caused you to get a disconnection and then a reconnection at a low speed. That resets the margin to the nornal 6dB. Then the noise goes away and your margin rises to 13dB. So your restret then set it back to 6dB at a high speed.

You might find my explanation of noise margin helpful.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

From your description of the O2 problem, and the stats you posted earlier, it seems you were getting greater than 6dB variation in margin, which caused you to get a disconnection and then a reconnection at a low speed. That resets the margin to the nornal 6dB. Then the noise goes away and your margin rises to 13dB. So your restret then set it back to 6dB at a high speed.

You might find my explanation of noise margin helpful.

I don't really understand, and I did check out your link -nice website.

From what I gather having a lower margin gives you a less stable but faster connection? So turning my router off and on my router means that increased it, resulting in lower speeds? What's this about resetting it back to 6? How can you do that? Pin-hole reset?
IF not, I can just phone O2 up and they can do it easily/it won't take a lot of time?

If the ISP systems raised the target value to above 6dB, then it is call them to reduce it.

NOTE: If it does this a lot then you should look at the wiring in the home to try and stop this happening.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If the ISP systems raised the target value to above 6dB, then it is call them to reduce it.

The O2 DLM is turned off after 1-2 days from initial connection. (The stats indicate LLU).

They are also horrendous. Possibly no filters anywhere when on O2, and maybe also now on VM Cable?

What do you mean by filters?

And are you saying that after 1-2 Days the DLM is turned off and the SN Margin is fixed? Or can you still call them to change it?

In reply to a post by cosmicflame1:

What do you mean by filters?

When you were on O2, in the modem box there were two things that looked like the XF-1e here. Those are filters. Did you use one at all?

Does anything similar come with VN Cable?

And are you saying that after 1-2 Days the DLM is turned off and the SN Margin is fixed? Or can you still call them to change it?

Most ISPs use BT Wholesale services. That has a DLM that runs for ever and does wierd things to the connection-time noise margin.

LLU connections such as your O2 one don't use that BT Wholesale service. So they have their own DLM, and yes, in the case of O2 they turn it off after a couple of days.

The connection time margin is basically fixed, but it can be manually altered by O2.

After you connect at whatever "connection time margin" has been set, the noise margin will change a bit during the day and often quite a lot at night. That's because the actual noise changes. It's noisier at night than in the day, for lots of reasons.

Edited by RobertoS (Fri 02-Mar-12 21:20:41)

Cool I read that changin the SN Margins doesn't take that much effort, you simply phone them up ad they'll do it.

And lol yup I read about noise increases on your website