VDSL Faceplate

Hi,

I had FTTC installed on Friday, this is via an MPF line so there are no other services on it. BT installed a new master socket and the Cellpipe modem is plugged straight in via a VDSL micro-filter. I'm just wondering if there's any point in getting a VDSL faceplate such as:
http://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/btvdslfaceplate.html

Cheers,

Picture of your VDSL micro-filter please?

The run-it link is what Openreach usually install onto a Master socket. Though most good existing ADSL2+ compatible microfilters should do the job perfectly well.

Also what do you mean by MPF Line with no other services? MPF usually means both voice and xDSL are supplied via LLU hardware in the exchange.

It's my understanding that the line goes to the BT cab and then is directly connected to the Thales (Digital Region) cab and does not touch BT. There is no dialtone on the line as it was only provisioned for VDSL. The OR engineer rang Thales to confirm it was working and not BT.

Anywayyyyyyyy, I can't easily take a photo of the micro-filter as the room that the master socket is in has no light and I don't want to unplug it because other people in the house are using it.

It is a plain white standard looking micro-filter with "ADSL Filter" printed on it, with a serial number (2711026999) on the back. It came with the Cellpipe 7130 VDSL CPE supplied by Thales.

Does the "socket" fitted by the OR engineer have just a phone socket outlet, or a phone socket and a broadband socket?

Is there anything wrong with the speeds anyway?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Does the "socket" fitted by the OR engineer have just a phone socket outlet, or a phone socket and a broadband socket?

Is there anything wrong with the speeds anyway?

the OP is with ask4 that run on the digital region in south Yorkshire, digital region connections don't usually use the split face plates like open reach FTTC uses they use a standard NTE5 socket and a normal filter like used with ADSL.

Ash

The socket is a standard NTE5a with no additional plates. Speeds are consistent, however they are meant to be 40/10 and as you can see from my speedtest in my sig' they are 36/8.

I can't see line stats or sync speed as I connect via PPPoE and have no access to the modem.

In reply to a post by vit0:

The socket is a standard NTE5a with no additional plates. Speeds are consistent, however they are meant to be 40/10 and as you can see from my speedtest in my sig' they are 36/8.

I can't see line stats or sync speed as I connect via PPPoE and have no access to the modem.

little off topic but how long did it take from you ordering to them actually getting it activated i placed an order with origin but it was going to take 2+months to get activated so canceled so how have ask4 been for you so far?

Ash

2 months?! insane.

It took about 14 working days. Digital Region / Thales manage all the provisioning so all the Digital Region ISPs should have the same lead times in theory.

There is an unofficial forum for DR at http://www.drlforum.co.uk (sorry if this advertising is not allowed, please remove)

Edited by vit0 (Tue 13-Mar-12 22:54:12)

In reply to a post by vit0:

2 months?! insane.

It took about 14 working days. Digital Region / Thales manage all the provisioning so all the Digital Region ISPs should have the same lead times in theory.

Yup i thought this they claim to be having back logs but who knows origin also dont seam to know the difference between BT infinity and open reach wholesale access lol so that worried me so canceled my order, Ii just gave ask4 a quick call and hes confirm about 14 days answered a few questions for me and they look top notch just need £75 quid now for install and first month lol

Ash

Hadn't looked at the sig speedtest - in general they are historic and irrelevant. Yours isn't .

The upload is consistent with that seen on Openreach GEA 10Mbps sync and BT Wholesale 10,000kbps upstream IP Profile. I suggest there is some reason for that 2Mbps drop between sync and throughput which applies also to your setup. (My downstream thoughts following may also be relevant to the upstream).

Download speed:-

When you say it goes to the BT Cab and from there to the Thales cab, do you mean the BT Cab is an Openreach FTTC one, or the original PCP?

If it is an Openreach FTTC one then I expect the feed is you >> PCP >> FTTC DSLAM, (as normal), >> Thales cab.

If so, the Openreach DLM will be running on the DSLAM, with a maximum IP Profile of 38717kbps, before the handover to Thales. On the common BT Wholesale that generally gives 36-37.5Mbps throughput, depending on the standard of the ISP's backhaul, routers and so on.

So again, as with the upload, I wouldn't see an issue.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Hadn't looked at the sig speedtest - in general they are historic and irrelevant. Yours isn't .

The upload is consistent with that seen on Openreach GEA 10Mbps sync and BT Wholesale 10,000kbps upstream IP Profile. I suggest there is some reason for that 2Mbps drop between sync and throughput which applies also to your setup. (My downstream thoughts following may also be relevant to the upstream).

Download speed:-

When you say it goes to the BT Cab and from there to the Thales cab, do you mean the BT Cab is an Openreach FTTC one, or the original PCP?

If it is an Openreach FTTC one then I expect the feed is you >> PCP >> FTTC DSLAM, (as normal), >> Thales cab.

If so, the Openreach DLM will be running on the DSLAM, with a maximum IP Profile of 38717kbps, before the handover to Thales. On the common BT Wholesale that generally gives 36-37.5Mbps throughput, depending on the standard of the ISP's backhaul, routers and so on.

So again, as with the upload, I wouldn't see an issue.

The digital region (Thales ) dose not use open reach cabinets or network for fiber it uses its own network and own DSLAMS in its own cabinets just uses the open reach copper to get to the house so it gos so its just you>PCP>Thales cab , its a fiber network that's only available in south Yorkshire (in other words its not like talktalk or sky hoping onto open reaches fiber network ) if you catch my drift

Ash

Edited by acpsd775 (Tue 13-Mar-12 23:10:23)

As stated above, I believe that it doesn't touch BT's network at all, the line runs to a BT PCP (non-FTTC) which has a copper connection to the Digital Region PCP next to it.

In reply to a post by vit0:

As stated above, I believe that it doesn't touch BT's network at all, the line runs to a BT PCP (non-FTTC) which has a copper connection to the Digital Region PCP next to it.

that's correct

i do apologize for keep butting in on you thread lol

Ash

OK .

That's why I asked the question of course, as I didn't know.

But!

I wonder what sort of "line control/DLM" is running on the DSLAM? Something will be, even if there is no ongoing "dynamic" element. As in O2/Be, TT and Sky/Easynet LLU.

It isn't inconceivable that they are even licensing the Openreach one. Just thinkingtyping aloud.

put you post codein this checker and see what estimate it gives you they use the same checker digital region use (seen as there one of the providers) so we can get a better idea what they think you should have because as we know its up to 40 but we don't always get it

Ash

In reply to a post by vit0:

As stated above, I believe that it doesn't touch BT's network at all, the line runs to a BT PCP (non-FTTC) which has a copper connection to the Digital Region PCP next to it.

What would be nice -- for those of us who are interested in such things -- is if you could take a few pictures of the Digital Region FTTC and the adjacent Openreach PCP, posting a link to the pictures here, please.

I would try and get one but the nearest one to me is on the other side of the road from the cab.

2 FTTCx cabs on one site and the PCP on the other.

Matt

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

In reply to a post by vit0:

As stated above, I believe that it doesn't touch BT's network at all, the line runs to a BT PCP (non-FTTC) which has a copper connection to the Digital Region PCP next to it.

What would be nice -- for those of us who are interested in such things -- is if you could take a few pictures of the Digital Region FTTC and the adjacent Openreach PCP, posting a link to the pictures here, please.

ill take a pic tomorrow mine are bang next to each other

Ash

oh wait sorry i miss read that im same my phone cabs across street its the OR FTTC cab and DR FTTC cab that's next to each other lol

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 14-Mar-12 01:41:34)

In that case, just a picture of the Digital Region FTTC would be interesting to see, please.

I only asked for a "side by side" picture to allow us to have something, the size and shape of which we are familiar, to act as a reference. (To use the slogan of a certain national supermarket chain, "Every little helps".)

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

In that case, just a picture of the Digital Region FTTC would be interesting to see, please.

I only asked for a "side by side" picture to allow us to have something, the size and shape of which we are familiar, to act as a reference. (To use the slogan of a certain national supermarket chain, "Every little helps".)

yea no probs i can do that as i say the BT and DR FTTC cabs are next to each other so should be a good for comparing

Ash

Aha the missing piece of the puzzle, i.e. that this is Digital Region

With no phone in use, then no need for a filter. So no need for that VDSL faceplate.

The faceplates still pass both the phone and VDSL components to the modem, which will have its own high pass filter to remove the voice.

The filters exist to stop the phone handset interacting with the xDSL signal.

The microfilter should be fine as it is, but the VDSL faceplate some may find neater, and have had cases of kids/animals playing with the dangly filter

?
Surely in this case neither a filtered faceplate nor the existing dangly filter are needed at all? The modem cable can go direct into the master socket.

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

In that case, just a picture of the Digital Region FTTC would be interesting to see, please.

I only asked for a "side by side" picture to allow us to have something, the size and shape of which we are familiar, to act as a reference. (To use the slogan of a certain national supermarket chain, "Every little helps".)

Heres the pics you wanted hope there ok was in a bit of a rush on my way down the village lol

Map of were the cabs are Link
Openreach PCP Link
Digital Region/Openreach FTTC cabs+Digital region man hole Link1 Link2

Sorry the text is a bit small i some times forget when zoomed in on paint the text looks bigger than the output file lol

Ash

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

?
Surely in this case neither a filtered faceplate nor the existing dangly filter are needed at all? The modem cable can go direct into the master socket.

It can, but a BT 431/631socket to RJ11 will be needed. I am surprised that if a DSL only service is provided that te supplier does not fit an RJ11/12/45 socket as standard.

Thanks for those pictures, Ash.

Your Link2 is the most interesting, to me. From it, I can see that Openreach are deploying the ECI equipment for its NGA fibre service in your area.

With a bit of luck, some of the ECI B-FOCus modems will be making their way onto eBay . . . I know that asbokid is on the look-out for one (or two), just like myself!

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

With a bit of luck, some of the ECI B-FOCus modems will be making their way onto eBay . . . I know that asbokid is on the look-out for one (or two), just like myself!

Interesting .

It has been suggested today by a BT employee, (current or retired, I forget), that the OR modems are required to be returned on an FTTC cease.

Da-di-da.

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

Thanks for those pictures, Ash.

Your Link2 is the most interesting, to me. From it, I can see that Openreach are deploying the ECI equipment for its NGA fibre service in your area.

With a bit of luck, some of the ECI B-FOCus modems will be making their way onto eBay . . . I know that asbokid is on the look-out for one (or two), just like myself!

going to sound a complete tard here but what are ECI & NGA would it be next generation access) and how can you tell just by looking at a little cab lol

Ash

PS i wish they actually would enable the thing its been there a year lol

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 14-Mar-12 22:05:04)

Well that does not surprise me nor, I suspect, you.

To re-iterate (for anyone new to the subject who happens upon this thread), the Openreach supplied modem, the active CPE, is part of the VDSL2 circuitry and is supposed to be recovered by Openreach when a VDSL2 based service is ceased.

In reply to a post by acpsd775:

going to sound a complete tard here but what are ECI & NGA would it be next generation access) and how can you tell just by looking at a little cab lol

ECI is one of the two makes of Openreach FTTC cabinet. See these pics.

NGA = Next Generation Access. BT fibre! FTTC/FTTP/FTTH. (Fibre to the Cabinet/Premises/Home).

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 14-Mar-12 22:23:25)

going to sound a complete tard here but what are ECI & NGA would it be next generation access) and how can you tell just by looking at a little cab

No problems. Let me explain . . .

(1) ECI (Electronics Corporation of Israel), more correctly ECI Telecom Ltd, is the "other" manufacturer used by the BT Group to supply modems and DSLAMs / MSANs to its infrastructure division, Openreach.

(2) Yes, correct. NGA is next generation access.

(3) Experience. I have seen that type of cabinet before and it was confirmed to be the type to hold ECI equipment.

To be absolutely sure, take a look at the right-hand end of that Openreach FTTC when you next pass it. As well as the front, which is a door that opens from right to left, the right hand end should also be a door. If there are no "triangular bolt-head locks" on the right-hand end door, it is an ECI equipment cabinet. If there are "triangular bolt-head locks" present, I've made a mistake and it will be a Huawei equipment cabinet.

thanks both for the replys i took a look at that link and yea its defo ECI 128 , Is there any advantage of disadvantage to either one

Ash

None been reported. You get an ECI modem, not a Huawei, but I don't remember any pics of that. Or do I ...? I think someone posted one, but I've no idea where.

Is yours ECI?

Bob,

I know I've posted a picture . . . somewhere but here is a link to a thread started by asbokid which shows the Huawei and ECI modems side-by-side.

Ash,

The only advantage in having Huawei kit providing one's FTTC service is that the HG612 modem has been "unlocked", so allowing EU access to the statistics.

ahhh im with you no biggy then if i get a ECI modem i think i could live without stats lol so long as it works and don't conk out every midnight like my talktalk ADSL modem ill be happy enough lol,

Ill be even happier if the 31/3/12 date actually sticks been changed 5 times already lol) then i can finally place an order at the end of the month been predicted 56/20 on my TT line so im defo looking forward to been back on those speeds again.

Ash

HMM bt checker says 31/3 and the talktalk checker now says april at this rate i might get it by 2096 lol

Edited by acpsd775 (Wed 14-Mar-12 23:47:22)