Help with O2 sync speed of 3798 down 988 up LA of 40/20

Hi

Looking for some help finding out what the problem could be with my line stats.


Moved house just round the corner and took my O2 standard legacy package with me but had to get new line installed by Openreach a few days ago. (but 20 days in house without home phone and broadband ! )

New house previously had master socket in bedroom at other side of house where line comes in near roof from pole.

Engineer said he would move it in to living room so removed wiring completely from bedroom and ran new wire from where pole wire is attached to building up through my loft and down into the living room through the ceiling and fitted new master socket to skirting. Done his line testing on voice line and gave us or new phone number even though O2 stated we'd keep our old one and job done.

Anyway Broadband went back on the next day and i connected up my netgear 834gt and got


System Up Time 00:18:01
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN DHCP Client 186 173 0 27 74 00:15:45
LAN 10M/100M 548 0 0 102 0 00:17:57
WLAN 54M 3977 3333 0 1994 315 00:17:51


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3772 kbps 897 kbps
Line Attenuation 40.5 db 20.5 db
Noise Margin 6.3 db 6.1 db



Dissapointed to say the least as my old house round the corner had line attenuation of 56db and connection was more, used to connect at 5 odd meg down with me lowering the snr on the netgear down to around 4db with virtually no loss of connection.

So tried again later with master socket face plate off and got



System Up Time 02:12:54
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN DHCP Client 5964 7502 0 147 820 02:10:38
LAN 10M/100M 1456 0 0 39 0 02:12:50
WLAN 54M 20423 16575 0 1916 247 02:12:44


ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 3798 kbps 887 kbps
Line Attenuation 40.0 db 20.5 db
Noise Margin 6.0 db 6.0 db


Not much better, so thought I'd have a look behind bt socket where wires go in.
There are only 2 wires going in to A and B one Orange and one Blue and others coiled up behind and i have no extension wires running from master socket.

Tried my old o2 box2 and got

DSL Connection

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:08:23

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5 annex A

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 945 / 3.794

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 0,00 / 0,00

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,5 / 18,5

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21,1 / 42,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,5 / 6,5

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 87 / 3.670

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 87 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 4,949 / 0

No better.

So contacted O2 and ask if my line was capped to 4 meg as it wasn't going above it and with my line attentuation should be able to get around 9 meg(but capped to 8 on standard legacy) which they agreed with but said i was not capped.

So they said they would send me a new O2box5 out next day to see if it was just my old O2box2 that was the problem. Told them my netgear was showing same results but I'd take it anyway.

Received the O2box5 Yesterday left on for a few hours and not much difference as expected below

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 5:38:53

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 966 / 3.798

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 9,47 / 45,11

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,4 / 18,6

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21,1 / 41,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,4 / 6,1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 75 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 48.237

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 802 / 138

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 1.312 / 706


Very long winded I know but any ideas as to what's causing this and how to imrove on my speed here?

If cant get o2 to sort this going to have to look at going FTTC with another provider as O2 have not got the finger out on Fibre yet.

Thanks in advance

PFG

Very puzzling . And upsetting!

You seem to know what you are doing, so I assume you aren't using a plugin extension lead to that new socket?

Even the upstream is low.

The trouble is that if the problem is anywhere between you and the cabinet, then FTTC would also be affected, possibly more than this is.

In reply to a post by prettyflyguy:

Not much better, so thought I'd have a look behind bt socket where wires go in.
There are only 2 wires going in to A and B one Orange and one Blue and others coiled up behind

What colours are the other wires?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Very puzzling . And upsetting!

You seem to know what you are doing, so I assume you aren't using a plugin extension lead to that new socket?

Even the upstream is low.

The trouble is that if the problem is anywhere between you and the cabinet, then FTTC would also be affected, possibly more than this is.

Hi RobertoS,

No, not using extension from the socket. O2boxV plugged into new filter with phone direct into master until i can find my filtered faceplate which is still in a box somewhere.

I assumed Openreach engineer would be a bit more thorough with line checking/installation on the visit to install fibre to find faults in-between. Typical.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by prettyflyguy:

Not much better, so thought I'd have a look behind bt socket where wires go in.
There are only 2 wires going in to A and B one Orange and one Blue and others coiled up behind

What colours are the other wires?

Batboy, 2 wires left are Brown and Green.

Wiring colours look very odd ...

Drop wire - which may have been used will have Pair 1: Orange & White and Pair 2: Green & Black. If external CW1308 had been used then the pairs would be Or & Or/W, Gn & Gn/W, Bl & Bl/W.

Given your SNR is around 6dB there is no headroom for a faster sync which points to a noisy line - and there can be a lot of reasons for that. If the cable is wrong or a split pair then a lot more noise can be picked up. Unfortunately there is no easy way to check. Maybe one of the BT Techs can comment on that colour pairing a say what BT supplied cable has Orange, Blue, Brown and Green.

Maybe one of the BT Techs can comment on that colour pairing a say what BT supplied cable has Orange, Blue, Brown and Green.

Like you, I am rather puzzled with that cabling.

The internal cabling of (say) the 1960s typically had four cores with colours green, blue, orange & brown. How the modern-day equivalent of that cable has its wires twisted, I can only guess at blue & orange as one pair and green & brown as the other pair.

Edited by burakkucat (Sat 17-Mar-12 23:54:43)

40.0 on down LA should be high 6-12mb or higher speeds,

what does http://www.samknows.com or https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html say about speed around where you are

i would guess line profile is locked below 3800 but your SNR is 6, i would expect something like 15 or 20 SNR at that lock speed speed on an 40 LA line as your closer to the exchange at that new address or better cables

the line is bad to start off with or bad wiring on the BT man part who fitted it (can you ask next doors maybe what speeds they get)

Edited by leexgx (Sun 18-Mar-12 05:26:08)

In reply to a post by leexgx:

i would guess line profile is locked below 3800 but your SNR is 6, i would expect something like 15 or 20 SNR at that lock speed speed on an 40 LA line as your closer to the exchange at that new address or better cables

O2 don't use line profiles unless you are on the Access product. The OP's upstream speed rules that out.

What has happened is that an old existing wire has been used. the colours used are correct, but the cable is not twisted pair, just four untwisted cores.

The answer is to replace the cable

BT have gone back to using the old blue / orange, green / brown 2 pair.

The OP does claim that the Tech ran a new wire ...

and it's been confirmed the colours are correct http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/technical/t/3631787...

I'm going to have a look in the loft Today and see what wiring i can see there and get a couple of pics inside the dropline junction box just below bathroom window if i can reach.

Dont know if these are any good or not but Reset router last night around 10:30 ish and left on over night and stats today were

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 16:31:48

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 979 / 3.414

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/GB]: 84,96 / 1,33

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,4 / 16,4

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21,3 / 45,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,0 / 5,1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 26 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 3 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 164 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 1.230.344

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 881 / 80

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 689 / 339


And reset 10 mins ago both on O2boxV

Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 0:10:19

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.3

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 966 / 3,820

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 66.61 / 24.68

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12.4 / 18.9

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21.1 / 41.5

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6.2 / 6.1

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 4,153

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 9 / 0

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 2 / 1

Don't have an old corded phone to check for line noise on 17070 But will try and get hold of one.

BT checker says

For Telephone Number 01415555555 on Exchange GIFFNOCK

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 3.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 2.5Mbps and 6.5Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 5.5Mbps and 15Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 8Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 5.5Mbps and 15Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 40Mbps and upstream line speed of 10Mbps.

logged into my O2 account it says

Current package: O2 Home Broadband Standard
You're out of contract.

You get a download speed of around 9.0 meg. That's faster than the UK average broadband speed.

Other customers with lines like yours get between 6.0 meg and 12.0 meg.

Edited by prettyflyguy (Sun 18-Mar-12 15:27:29)

I'm afraid im not much help here but I wish you luck in sorting your problem - I am having a similar issue with unexplainable low sync. It will be interesting to find out the cause of yours.

If you could post a dmt graph that might help explain things (if you have a compatible router)

Edited by deleted (Sun 18-Mar-12 17:50:44)

You seem to have missed a fairly salient piece of info. Openreach have been using two pair internal cable, blue/orange green/brown for a few years now. This is twisted pair stuff. The OP mentions that the engineer reprovided the line up through the loft from one side to the other.

I'll try to get round to DMT tool for a graph huwwatkins no prob, hope you get your line problems sorted out too.

Checked the wiring in the loft earlier and found the external black wire joined to white internal wire that runs to the master socket.

link to pictures at bottom, best i could do. Might be a little big!

External wire colours are Black,Green,White,Orange.

Internal are as described earlier Blue Orange, Green,Brown

External orange wire joins onto internal Orange then external White joins onto internal Blue. The other loose wires external Black, Green and Internal Green, Brown of around 7 inches in length just stick out along side.

Cable was going across the loft floor joists over the new electrical cables that run up there to our newly rewired kitchen, so have lifted it from the there up to hang on roof rafters. But there must be 9-10 metres of excess internal white wiring coming from the Black external join.

Could this affect the LA and cause interference?

Also there is a television loft aerial up there too could this be causing problems?

Could the internal cable be cut down to get rid of excess to improve line?

Restarted router after lifting cabling to the roof and stats improved a little as shown below few hours later


Link Information

Uptime: 0 days, 3:32:56

DSL Type: ITU-T G.992.5

Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 971 / 4.309

Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [MB/MB]: 14,56 / 117,16

Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 12,4 / 18,4

Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 21,1 / 45,0

SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 6,4 / 4,7

System Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ----

Chipset Vendor ID (Local/Remote): BDCM / BDCM

Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

Loss of Link (Remote): -

Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 61 / 0

FEC Errors (Up/Down): 0 / 17.052

CRC Errors (Up/Down): 390 / 96

HEC Errors (Up/Down): 379 / 374

Any ideas???



http://imageshack.us/g/684/020120083024.jpg/

I'm afraid im not much help here but I wish you luck in sorting your problem - I am having a similar issue with unexplainable low sync. It will be interesting to find out the cause of yours.

If you could post a dmt graph that might help explain things (if you have a compatible router)

DMT graph as requested overnight stats although forgot i had lowered target snr to 3 from 6. DG834GT

http://i39.tinypic.com/25yywpv.jpg

Lowered snr further to 1 just now and cant get much more out of connection

http://i41.tinypic.com/2rzc5ug.png

Edited by prettyflyguy (Mon 19-Mar-12 09:10:42)

Post deleted by prettyflyguy

http://imageshack.us/g/684/020120083024.jpg/

Could the wiring in pics affect the connection?
excess cable?
Tv Aeriel in loft?

Anyone??

If anyones interested I Had a visit from Openreach engineer Today, who put me on a new pair at the exchange and another cabinet which is closer to the house.
Netgear shows

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8039 kbps 1165 kbps
Line Attenuation 43.5 db 28.0 db
Noise Margin 2.3 db 6.5 db

With me lowering the snr on the router just below 3. Was on 6.5 downstream attentuation was on 46

dmt

http://i44.tinypic.com/15otg8p.jpg