'Loud Bell'? on the wall causing noise?

We've moved into a new house and have had intermittent problems with noise on the line.

We've done the usual, unplugged everything, plugged the router into the master socket with a corded phone attached, all filtered, ran line tests and the noise persists.

Mysteriously though, of its own accord it will vanish for a month or two before returning and lasting a few days.

Luckily when set to a 'stable' connection profile the broadband doesn't keep dropping in and out, but speed is drastically reduced. Downstream is around 80% of normal, whereas upstream is halved.

Seems strange, right? Here is the spanner in the works.

On the wall by the front door is a box. When the phone rings it emits a telephone ring sound (there is a bell inside). In addition when you pick the receiver up on a phone you hear a 'click' sound from the device, and the same when you put the receiver down.

I've no idea what this device is, perhaps a loud bell? It looks like something from the 50s and is very faded.

The trouble is this is connected _directly_ from the line outside. The wire passes through the device on to the master socket.

When we have issues with the noisy line the device on the wall will 'click' when you pick the receiver up but will _not_ click as per usual when putting the receiver down.

Given that this device is before the master socket, it cannot be filtered and I'm assuming that it is this device that is causing the noise on the line.

Anyone know what this device might be, and anyone know how to remove it!

I've looked at BT's "Engineer Home Improvement Service", if they find a fault your end it is £99 - but do they actually fix it? IE: if they come, determine it is this werid device, would they remove it and re-wire the master socket for the £99, or is this an extra charge?

Guess it's a bell for hard-of-hearing but dunno how to get rid of it.

Yeah, the person living here before was an elderly man.

Would you think this could cause the noise? I'm guessing even given the age of it, even if by its own design it wouldn't cause noise, the age of the wiring might cause it?

It is an bell/ringer and probably BT installed. A picture would be useful.

It should not cause any direct problems. Internally there will be a ringer circuit and two coils that create a magnetic field to vibrate the hammer which strikes the metal bell. There will be electromagnetic interference or noise created which might cause interference on the line. It will have a REN of maybe 3 or more which could have an adverse effect on the line by changing the termination impedance and as it is before an filters can cause attenuation of the ADSL/VDSL signal.

As it is before the master you cannot touch it or the connection to it and it must be done by BT. You need to tell BT you want it removed and that as it is before the master and their responsibility they should remove it FOC.

As has been said that would cause all sorts of things to go wrong with the noise it injects on the line, as it is before the master socket it is for BT to sort out and should be done free as part of a fault, log a fault with them for a noisy line, when the engineer comes round point it out to him and he should take it off-line for you as part of the fault.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

...and anyone know how to remove it!

Follow the wires back and disconnect them!

Thanks to those who've replied.

Sounds like it is time to get BT out if we're not meant to touch it if it is before the master socket, and likely BT installed.

I was just a little concerned that even if it is that at fault then it would be the default £99 charge as it was an additional device that the previous house owner had installed on his own accord.

Additional question though - fibre is due to be rolled out later this month, and checking against fibre checkers our cabinet will be included.

I understand that fibre requires an engineer visit? If that's correct, would they be able to remove the device, thus killing two birds with one stone?

Even if the previous owner had installed it, you can ask for BT to "regularise the installation". Can you get a picture of the Bell and whether it is BT or not can be confirmed.

A fibre install Tech, might or might not be qualified to - some are just trained in the basics.

I thought that might be the case regarding the engineers!

Here is a picture, there are no brand markings on it what-so-ever, just a solid plastic cover. I can take it off it required.

http://i45.tinypic.com/r8y3b7.jpg

Can you remove the cover ... a general picture along with one showing the terminal block in close up.

I know them, but I have not seen one in years!!

I'm guessing it started off white - so that tells you something!

Here's the photos.

I just noticed actually, it has GPO embossed on it!

To be honest with you I'd rather it is gone as it is [censored] annoying, though others in the house don't seem to mind it!

General pic - http://i46.tinypic.com/2dvtxlu.jpg
Up close - http://i45.tinypic.com/97o31s.jpg

Hi, looks like bell-set 50e, they were cream so your house dirt was not to blame They were provided FOC for hard of hearing subs. These days a plug-in tone caller would be the more usual (read cheaper for Telecom) solution. Just call 150 and get it ceased. It may or may not show on your customer rental details. That depends on who transcribed the details from the old ARSCe computer system

I can just make out where the GPO embossing would be! It would have been cream not white ...

Have a close look at your bills - are you still paying rental for it?

Get it removed - BT should, as I suggested earlier, do it at no cost. Ask the Technician if you can keep it, then send it to me! or put it on Ebay (50% commission to me too), but the Tech may retain it for return to BT and then it might get Ebay'ed!

No we're not paying for it, would have told them to get bent if they were going to charge us for something someone in the previous house had installed! Can't believe they used to charge monthly for these things!

Seems a bit of an expensive way to hear the telephone!

Thanks for all your help guys, interesting to finally discover what it is called and never knew it was so old!

Will get a BT engineer out to remove it.

Back in the GPO days ... you would be charged line rental including the first phone and if you wanted a "non-standard", different coloured phone, or the "Trim Phone" or an extension, or external bell, or ... there would be an additional monthly charge!

What ever you do, don't let it get binned as there are collectors out there who would love to get hold of one.

Yeah, been Googling and there is a place nearby here that has lots of similar devices, will take a trip there once its down.

BT will not remove it FOC if it is not causing a problem just because you ask them to ,would you send an eng.out to do possible un-nessesary work if it was your business!...I know I am an OPenreach eng. who BT would send out and we are forced to raise charges for any work inside a property even before the nte if it is deemed to be not BT equipment at fault (check small print in your contract). If you check your bill you will not see a charge for the bell because it is not rented anymore and is deemed to be your property. My advice would be to check which type of dropwire you have coming to the house ,if it is an old grey 2 pair wire as opposed to the newer type black cable then this is probably the cause of the noise....To disconnect the bell take the cover off trace the feed cable and disconnect it from the bell the take the front off the socket and see which 2 wires are connected (from the bell) disconnect these from the bell and join to the in coming wires ,

disconnect orange wire going to position 1 and the orange wire to pos 7 and join them together...disconnect the white wire on pos 5 and the blue wire on pos4 and join these together and the bell is now bypassed,,,,simps innit. : )

Just taken a look at it is a black cable. It is dark, so most things are looking black at the moment but it is a single cable, not paired.

The reason I'm laying blame on the bell set is because it is before the master socket, and isn't filtered - so I can only assume this is what is causing the noise if it is not outside of the house, unless it is the wiring but the master faceplate looks fairly new so I'm assuming the wiring would be good.

Wiring is beyond my expertise, it is likely simple but I'd rather someone else blow the house up, so I'll ask an elder to take a look and see if they can do as you've advised before getting one of your colleagues out.

Thanks.

A bell does not need to be filtered.. a filter only spilts the analogue speech signal from the BB digital signal so the white noise of the modem/router is not heard on the phone , which is why you need a filter on each phone , to call it a filter is a bit of a misnomer as it is really a splitter.

Could it cause an issue though, by proxy?

The trouble of this problem is that it is intermittent and by that I mean every 1-2 months for 2-3 days. Not a major butt ache, but when it comes its frustrating.

Equally by the time someone from BT turns up it'll likely have corrected itself.

In reply to a post by MHC:

Back in the GPO days ... you would be charged line rental including the first phone and if you wanted a "non-standard", different coloured phone, or the "Trim Phone" or an extension, or external bell, or ... there would be an additional monthly charge!

Registered hard of hearing used to get a bell FOC.

Doubt it is causing noise though, unless the noise is a constant hum caused from unbalance.

If an eng. turns up and everything tests ok then your CP will be charged and they may pass the charge onto you.