A question for Openreach engineers

We are about to have "K-Render" applied to the house. This entails an insulation board of around 70mm applied to the entire exterior surface which of course requires that all external fittings such as soil/downpipes, meters and importantly in this case, the BT dropwire, be removed and re-fixed.
Now the company chosen insists that it has special dispensation from Openreach that allows their "electricians" to detatch the dropwire, somehow hold it temporarily away from the wall and then re-fix it to the new surface.
What I'd like to know is what documents to ask the company for to prove that they have such permissions. I ask because looking at similar works in the area by other companies have buried the dropwire behind the insulation board and I don't want to be levied with charges in future should anything go wrong.

If they are just detaching the cable from the wall then that should not be a problem, when I had a new front door fitted, the downwire had to be removed from the frame and attached onto the wall, but since it did not need to be disconnected the people who put the new door in moved it.

This requires a lot more work than that for having a door fitted.
The whole cable needs to be completely detached from the property, temporarily fixed to the scaffold and then refixed to the new render face. As the cable length is pretty tight at the moment, it's very likely that when re-fixed, this will require dis/reconnection and maybe even a new length of cable and jointing box.

There is only one company allowed to alter any overhead telecom wires and that is bt. Does this firm know the correct heights or what load adjustments can be made on your pole? I highlydoubt it. People have been killed due to dropwires falling or being erected too low (including bt engineers). As these adjustments are being made by your contractors any bills or legal comebacks will lay at your door. Ring bt and arrange for a shift. The engineer may move the wire onto the fascia. Also consider using another contractor they sound like cowboys. BT ENGINEER.

For that then only BT open reach, as been said above,

As it happens, we are having our old timber back door replaced next week with a new double glazed plastic jobby. Our old drop-wire has been fixed through the drilled door frame. I had already thought about damage, but as it is a council property and the council have ordered the job, I am just going to keep quiet and hope I end with a new drop :-}

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

....... Does this firm know the correct heights or what load adjustments can be made on your pole......

They are a large and well respected outfit but I too doubt that they are qualified to interfere with Openreach equipment. However, if they are, what I wanted to know was exactly what to ask for as proof of this.

Their BT QCP accreditation forms regarding cal/omi overhead works, their certification showing a qcp check in the last 12 months and a copy of their written risk assessment and method statement for such work and then their license to work on BT plant. Even contractors or eventually other firms using BT infrastructure need to be BT trained and have each of these. Your pole could for example be decayed - and your wire supporting it through tension - release that tension and not only do you risk the pole being affected (very worse case it subsequently collapsing) - or more likely the silly sod undoing the wire being pulled back off his ladder / scaffold and the wire then dropping across the road. We do not tension or release tension from wires at the house end - it is done from the pole, I guarantee these idiots are thinking of doing it from the house and then just slapping the wire back up. This sort of thing does happen, but dont be surprised if later on (if no accidents are caused) an engineer needs to replace / alter the line, which has in my personal experience led to a cherry picker and additional safety man plus first engineer having to work on the remedy - costing the end user over a grand (which WILL be pursued). However I believe the shift is somewhere in the region of £140.
This firm are trying to save themselves a few notes making illegal adjustments to an infrastructure operators plant - and are willing to put the safety of their staff and the public at risk in order to do this. I wouldn't let them paint my shed with that mindset.
This is a very different situation to a PVC company undoing the cleats so they can bury the cable behind their new door / window (which still technically naughty) - making adjustments to the clamp, bracket or tensioned dropwire in flight is a whole other ball game. You could have a biker get pulled off his bike if the wire drops or panic a driver as the wire hits their car and they swerve into kids etc.... Please dont let them do it.
BT Engineer

[censored] there are some jobsworths on here.

There should be no problem in unclipping the cable from the existing external wall and then reclipping it back to the newly rendered surface.

As long as it's done carefully (i.e. don't hack the clips off and tug the cable) then there won't be damage to the wiring. A building contractor saying that they will do it doesn't make them a cowboy - it's the way they do it which might.

If you're really concerned, ask them to sign a liability for any possible damage their actions might cause to existing fixtures and fittings (not just cables but also downpipes, etc.) and ensure that if there are problems that they are made aware immediately.

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

[censored] there are some jobsworths on here.

There should be no problem in unclipping the cable from the existing external wall and then reclipping it back to the newly rendered surface.

As long as it's done carefully (i.e. don't hack the clips off and tug the cable) then there won't be damage to the wiring. A building contractor saying that they will do it doesn't make them a cowboy - it's the way they do it which might.

If you're really concerned, ask them to sign a liability for any possible damage their actions might cause to existing fixtures and fittings (not just cables but also downpipes, etc.) and ensure that if there are problems that they are made aware immediately.

Wow, easy to say that sitting behind an 'Anonymous' name. Its more then a few clips mate, they want to take the entire dropwire fixing off, what do you think will happen if they don't get the height right and a bin truck snags it? cable breaks and whips across the street - someone gets hit by said cable - are you going to take the responsibility Mr.Anonymous user?

Edited by deleted (Fri 15-Jun-12 22:35:30)

The pole is on my side of the road so overhead as in over the road isn't a concern. However, the pole was fitted recently by a cowboy company who Openreach have sacked after they caught them cutting off the bottom of poles to avoid digging deeper holes.
My pole is now listing by about ten degrees from vertical and slowly getting worse. It's set above a gas service and because of now removed electrical cables, it's so high that a platform is needed for access. The original contractor had a pair of pliers as his sole tool and Openreach have been regular visitors since it's been there because of constant faults at the pole. There is very little slack in the attached dropwires even now so in winter they must be pretty well stretched.
This is why I'm worried about someone without authority messing about with the dropwire....... If it ever stops raining I'll get some pics.

So clearly BT/Openreach are not maintaining the pole properly and they should be obliged to fix it so that the dropwires are not pretty well stretched. Comments?

In reply to a post by herbgold:

So clearly BT/Openreach are not maintaining the pole properly and they should be obliged to fix it so that the dropwires are not pretty well stretched. Comments?

That's a completely different matter and will be dealt with.

In reply to a post by Deadbeat:

In reply to a post by herbgold:

So clearly BT/Openreach are not maintaining the pole properly and they should be obliged to fix it so that the dropwires are not pretty well stretched. Comments?

That's a completely different matter and will be dealt with.

Aye, a pole can have a lean and shallow foundation but its surprising how much pressure can be put on them before they fall.

Can't say I've seen any that have just fallen over on their own bad contractors or not. Remember the video of them trying to pull down a shallow foundation D-pole before trying to convince us about shallow climb poles...

Well if the wires are tight and the pole shallow then definetly adjusting the load will be an issue especially for the guy undoing it! There will be pressure pulling those wires tight and loosening your may make the pole spring the other way and pull against the guy undoing it. Also i suggest annon read the posts before commenting, i made the destinction between cable down a wall and wire under tension. Now we know the pole is certainly defective and wires tight - had anyone read your post and gone ahead there may have been serious consequences. If you dont know the ins and outs dont comment, you may as well have suggested checking for gas with a lighter....
Op, if you are going with this firm just get bt out youself to move the bracket so these guys dont cause an issue to the flying wire.

Above post Bt engineer.

I had one go from about ten degree lean to what felt like 35,, short light on farm run.. that was just when i got halfway up the ladder! Been to many pole downs and knew a guy who had to jump off a dp that snapped at the pavement! On the whole they are robust provided they are installed correctly and in cycle... wouldnt want to try my luck on this one mind.
Bt engineer

Short answer is that they will not have special dispensation from Openreach to rearrange Openreach plant.