Tricky problem - need temp. broadband but DACS on line...

This question covers a few areas, so I thought I'd better just put it in the general forum....

I have two lines into my home - a bog standard BT PSTN line with no broadband service, plus a separate line in the name of my employer providing BT Business Broadband. I'm a reasonable distance from my (non-LLU) exchange, so that broadband line never goes above 4Mb/s.

My employer has decided that all its staff should jolly well pay for their own broadband now, so will be terminating all business broadband lines on 24th August.

As it happens a "wireless broadband" supplier (County Broadband) is launching a service to my area in "around 3 months". I'm very keen to go with them as soon as they're available as they promise much faster speeds.

So, I decided to find a cheap broadband service that I can terminate at a month's notice to "fill the gap" between my current business broadband being terminated, and the new option being available to me.

BT don't seem to provide short contracts, so I was intending to go with a 30 day Tesco contract. Unfortunately the Tesco online checker tells me I have "incompatible equipment" on my personal line, and further investigation reveals this is a DACS. Tesco tell me this has to be removed by BT, and BT (after much phoning) say this can only be removed if it is instigated by the new ISP - seems like an impasse.

My only other option is to somehow transfer my home number to my line currently used for business broadband and get a new Tesco non-business broadband line started on that. To get all that done with minimal loss of broadband seems highly unlikely though....

I'm really not sure what to do for the best now...

Any ideas anyone?

BT can transfer ownership of the broadband contract from the employer to you - it has been done before and there was no minimum contract length, they just allowed the existing to continue on.

Isn't Tesco an LLU service through Cable & Wireless? Or do they have an "out of area" product at a much higher price like other LLU suppliers?

Anyway, I suggest you PM vivaciti, ADSL24 and uno on these forums.

Monthly broadband contracts are available from them, and they have the expertise to sort it out if anyone can. Unlike a big setup like Tesco who are basically just selling a bought-in service.

Let us know if they come up with anything .

Got an old dialup modem, if it connects at over 28 Kbps on the line that has the DACS then you do not actually have one on the line.
What exactly does the BT Wholesale checker say for the line?
DACs are only removed once an order for ADSL has been placed, so would delay service by a week or two.

In reply to a post by MHC:

BT can transfer ownership of the broadband contract from the employer to you - it has been done before and there was no minimum contract length, they just allowed the existing to continue on.

Cheers. I might keep this as a backup option. My employer is currently paying around £47 a month - I'd prefer not to be lumbered with this (and I assume it would need a new contract to change it) unless it was the only option.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Isn't Tesco an LLU service through Cable & Wireless? Or do they have an "out of area" product at a much higher price like other LLU suppliers?

Anyway, I suggest you PM vivaciti, ADSL24 and uno on these forums.

Monthly broadband contracts are available from them, and they have the expertise to sort it out if anyone can. Unlike a big setup like Tesco who are basically just selling a bought-in service.

Let us know if they come up with anything .

Yes, I believe Tesco are just reselling C&W services as you say. I can't have the combined phone & broadband as it is out of area, but they do have broadband-only as an option of £14 a month, so that doesn't seem too bad. Pretty academic though unfortunately, as they're not willing to budge on the DACS front.

Thanks for the suggestions - I had wondered about ADSL24, and I see they have a monthly contract. Not only that, but the DACS doesn't seem to prevent me taking up their service - it just says it will delay things. I think I'm to go with them. If I hit problems I'll send a pm as you suggest.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Got an old dialup modem, if it connects at over 28 Kbps on the line that has the DACS then you do not actually have one on the line.
What exactly does the BT Wholesale checker say for the line?
DACs are only removed once an order for ADSL has been placed, so would delay service by a week or two.

Not sure where I'd lay my hands on one a modem!

The BT Wholesale Line checker (wasn't aware of this before - thanks for telling me about it) shows this:

Note: You will be able to receive a Broadband service but could experience a slightly longer product delivery time, typically within 10 days as your telephone line running from your premises will need to be changed to enable this (a process referred to as 'de-DACS'). In some rare instances BT may need to undertake significant engineering work to provide service that could further extend the product delivery time (up to around 40 days is possible, but rare). An estimated service delivery time will be provided to your Broadband Provider following a site survey.

Thanks for all the swift & helpful responses guys! I'm going to put an order in with ADSL24. I'll send an update if I hit any more problems....

Let us know how things go .

Just as a side issue, is your having broadband and/or a landline phone required by your employer? In other words, do you need them in order to do your job? It just seems odd that so far they have been paying out that amount per month if not, and very questionable if so for them to pass the burden to you and your colleagues now.

Have you not considered an option of asking your employer if they can get a MAC from the current BT service and then use that to migrate the line away or are they looking to cease the phone line as well?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Let us know how things go .

Just as a side issue, is your having broadband and/or a landline phone required by your employer? In other words, do you need them in order to do your job? It just seems odd that so far they have been paying out that amount per month if not, and very questionable if so for them to pass the burden to you and your colleagues now.

It's not a key requirement of my work, as I'm office based and not on any formal callout arrangement. There is an occasional need for weekend work though, plus very occasional callout on a "best endeavors" basis, so if I didn't have broadband I guess I'd need to drive/taxi to the office out of hours occasionally. They have given us a tiny pay rise to compensate for it, though I'm not sure it would cover even the very cheapest broadband! Yeah, we're all a bit miffed about it, but it's hard to complain, as it's a pretty well paid, convenient job....

In reply to a post by vivaciti:

Have you not considered an option of asking your employer if they can get a MAC from the current BT service and then use that to migrate the line away or are they looking to cease the phone line as well?

Yeah, they're ceasing the whole line unfortunately.

I put the order in last night, so that's a good start! I have had an email saying my order is in a "delayed status", awaiting more info, but I was expecting something like this due to the DACS.

I was surprised to be charged the first month's rental (as well as the set-up fee) immediately - is that normal? I thought maybe the first monthly fee might not have been charged until the service had been activated (I requested a date of 15th August), but then I've been lucky enough to never have to worry about this sort of thing before!

Edited by deleted (Tue 10-Jul-12 09:51:51)

If there is a geniune business need for Broadband and your employer is no longer prepared tp pay for it you may be able to claim it as expenses against tax. Not sure on the current tax legislation as it keeps changing nor on what basis you are employed but it may be worth looking at to keep the cost down.

The tax claim if I recall relied on the majority use being business, so if just occassional then probably not.

Firm is gambling on taxi receipts etc being less

No chance.

"Yeah, they're ceasing the whole line unfortunately"


game on then ! the engineer will just use that "D side" routing for your BB line and job done !

? Bert

Won't he be having pair 2 connected before pair 1 is ceased? Otherwise some pretty slick order coordination is going to be needed.

Tesco was traditionally Datastream via NTL, like Virgin. Still is where no LLU option, maybe some IPStream but in general Tesco=Virgin=poor performance when via BT Wholesale.

Bob i and most of the guys would just "tone" that pr back to the cab and just use it !

As the saying goes KISS ! LoL

Just a quick update for anyone interested.

My order with ADSL24 has been at "awaiting DACS removal" status for a week now:

Updated Type Status
10 Jul 2012 02:40 ProvideIn Progress (Order Delayed)
10 Jul 2012 02:40 Delay reason Awaiting DACS removal

Not a big problem so far; I was expecting a delay for this, and I gave a "requested date" of 15 Aug. I'm just hoping I don't get a "BT advise they need a one-off fee of £x,000 to remove DACS" sort of update!

If you wish to PM me your number I can chase this up with BT to ensure they are dealing with the DACS

In reply to a post by Adsl24:

If you wish to PM me your number I can chase this up with BT to ensure they are dealing with the DACS

Thanks for that. Apologies for the late response - for some reason I didn't get an email and have only just checked the thread.

I don't think there's any need to chase up BT yet. Your guys have emailed me to let me know that BT have discovered it is trickier than first thought, but the work is scheduled for the 9th.

I'll report back later in the week!

Removing a DACS can often be a problem by nature of why they use them, it basically shares one physical line between two phone numbers when they run short on lines.

My brother moved into a house in February and it took two months to get his broadband sorted, and that was only after an email to the CEO of BT Group.

The big advantage you have is that you already have another line with broadband on it, which will be ceasing soon, ideally you want to get BT to use this pair for your broadband/telephone, if they haven't sorted it out by then.

Ronski , did you not see my post on Tue -10-Jul @ 20-14 ? you are spot on as i say KISS lol

Yes I did.

Well, after another minor delay waiting for BT, the DACS has been removed and I now have broadband on my phone line!

Life's never simple though, and a minor complication has arisen. My new line seems to be stuck at the 2mb/s profile, not the up to 8mb/s that I was expecting (based on the 3.5 - 4.1 mb/s I get from my soon-to-be-ceased line). After chatting to a very helpful (and obviously very technically knowledgeable) ADSL24 guy it seemed my noise margin (goes from 2db to below 0) indicates interference from something in my house. This was surprising given my router was plugged into the test socket, but after a crawl in my loft, I see the reason. My ADT alarm is connected directly to the incoming phone line long before it gets to the master socket - I'm surprised that's allowed! Anyway, I guess I need to speak to ADT now and find out what the options are for a filter for the alarm (I guess it will be a special one due to the way it is connected).

Normal for alarms to be hardwired, it avoids them being too easy to disconnect by a burglar.

They should know about ADSL by now, just not sure if they charge you for visit, they probably do

The alarm was probably installed before broadband was a big thing. So doing it this way wasn't an issue.

Nowadays obviously it's a big problem. This kind of thing affects so many people. Modern burglar alarms now use the mobile network so don't even connect to a landline. They just have a sim card inserted. This way when a burglar cuts a landline it makes no difference.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 22-Aug-12 01:29:17)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Modern burglar alarms now use the mobile network so don't even connect to a landline. They just have a sim card inserted.

I didn't know that. Interesting!

This way when a burglar cuts a landline it makes no difference.

But I think you are wrong there. Cut the landline and the monitoring station will shout that it has lost contact with the alarm.

My alarm doesn't connect to a landline so there's nothing to cut.

It connects via mobile network via a sim card. Such as 02, 3, orange etc.
Works the same as an alarm that's hard wired only if a burglar cuts the landline it can obviously still dial out as it never used the landline to begin with.

Any alarm hardwired will sound if the lines cut though like you say

Is the alarm actually monitored ? If not, happy days.
If it is, then with a few pictures and a faceplate filter, I can talk you through sorting this out.