It's Orange's statement: "Like all of the major providers, we have to pass on the costs we pay BT to offer broadband outside our network area," that was confirmed by a member of their sales team as £10 when I called, which I find bewildering.

Previously Plusnet certainly had a pricing structure that mentioned low cost areas and that was changed to include Market 2 exchanges. Orange didn't have a LLU presence at a particular Market 2 exchange yet they don't seem to classify it as in a low cost area, a high cost Market 1 area nor is it in their network area.

Guess be are talking about the differences between a low cost area and a network area in the case of a Market 2 exchange which, for me, is totally confusing

The only well-known ISP that implements different customer pricing depending on exchange Market Classification is Plusnet. Note that for LLU ISPs, or at least their LLU products. Market Classification is irrelevant. It doesn't affect those in the slightest.

It's Orange's statement: "Like all of the major providers, we have to pass on the costs we pay BT to offer broadband outside our network area," that was confirmed by a member of their sales team as £10 when I called, which I find bewildering.

In the middle of replying I think I realised what is confusing you.

Let's forget LLU.

Non LLU ISPs get charged less in M3 that in M1. I'm not sure in M2, off the top of my head. I'd have to search around, and I'm ready for sleep .

Plusnet charge £6.50 more in M1 than the do in M2 and M2. You are correct in thinking that they used to charge that extra in M2 as well. I seem to remember it was a lower premium, but maybe it was £6.50. Again, it's sleep time.

So the difference between Orange and PN is that wherever Orange did not have LLU, which means all M1 and some M2, they charge a £10 premium. PN only charge a premium in M1, and it is £6.50.

So far as I know all other ISPs charge a uniform price independent of market classification. One hopes that the price is somewhere between the two prices they would charge if they did do differential pricing.

The Orange FAQ should simply be changed to define the area correctly. The unfortunate sales person has to adhere to the company line, probably not even knowing it isn't any longer correctly worded. They don't have a network, so they can't have a network area. They aren't even technically an ISP. They are a Virtual ISP just like UKFSN, just rather a lot bigger.

Phew . Not easy to work out when nodding off.

Nice one Bob,

Hope you slept well

A virtual ISP charging ten quid extra per month to anybody outside a non-existent network area (85% of UK homes are apparently in this non-existent network area) sounds like a sweet deal for Orange LOL! The whole thing is an illusion except for that hard earned, actual, additional tenner forked out each month by an unfortunate minority!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

that was confirmed by a member of their sales team as £10 when I called, which I find bewildering

You don't need to take his word for it. It's confirmed on their Sales Webpage:

In reference to broadband.orange.co.uk/home:

Prices quoted are for customers on Orange pay monthly and pay as you go mobile plans living in an Orange Broadband network area, which covers 85% of all UK homes. For non-Orange customers, an additional £5 a month will be charged. Orange customers living in non-Orange Broadband network areas will be charged an additional £10 a month. Non-Orange customers living in a non-Orange Broadband network area will be charged an additional £15 a month.

The only thing missing is a definition of "Orange Broadband network area" .

The only thing missing is a definition of "Orange Broadband network area" .

That's why I called sales, several weeks ago, in order to establish whether my Market 2 exchange is in their network area wrongly thinking it might be similar to PN's low cost area.

Sales give me the impression that like all major providers they pass on the costs they to pay BTw to provide broadband outside of "network areas" and that additional sum of £10 would be charged by all ISP's. This may indeed be true with TalkTalk who may still be charging an additional £10 or more for broadband from an exchange where they don't have a LLU presence?

Edit: just checked the TT site which states: "Our broadband packages are subject to availability in your area and this covers 85% of UK households. If your home cannot be connected to the broadband service supplied with this package, you may still be able to get an alternative broadband service from TalkTalk at £15.32 extra per month."

Guess Orange charging £10 ain't so bad

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 16-Jul-12 15:33:49)

That's no definition:

• All of Orange BB is now provided by BTw for which they pay. On that basis all Orange BB is outside of "network areas" and so all customers should be charged an additional sum of £10. But we know that's not the case.
• You can't define "network area" in terms of itself

No, like Roberto, I think who you were talking to was thinking they still had LLU. You notice the diff between his statement and the webpage I previously referenced is that the latter makes no mention of paying BT; it is just a statement of price conditions. It just lacks a definition of "Orange Broadband network area".

Orange has never had a pricing structure based on Market Classification and I'm pretty sure it still doesn't. The £10 "surcharge" and its "non-network area" must arise out of their undisclosed commercial deal with BTw.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

"Our broadband packages are subject to availability in your area and this covers 85% of UK households.

Interesting that 85% is the same as Orange's.

It can't refer to WBC cuz TT don't provide WBC.

More likely that TT's LLU coverage is about the same as Orange's as was. Therefore hinting that Orange are sticking to their old LLU/non-LLU areas.

I can understand Orange customers who were previously LLU'ed not having to pay the additional £10 when Orange changed to WBC, but potential new customers having to try and establish whether their exchange was previously included in that former network area seems rather odd.

This being especially pertinent if one is considering a change of ISP when an exchange has been upgraded to 21CN WBC. For example: Plusnet, who have a lower price for Market 2 exchanges, do seem to be currently more attractive if one wished to switch to 21CN WBC and that exchange didn�t have an Orange LLU presence previously...

Pah, Orange never had anywhere near the coverage of TalkTalk, Orange was smaller than the current O2 network.

TalkTalk is above 85% if their investor reports are correct, and getting them wrong is a serious thing.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

potential new customers having to try and establish whether their exchange was previously included in that former network area seems rather odd.

All they need do is put their phone # into the Availability Checker and it give them their price.