Home Connection

Hi,

I know very little about this kind of stuff and don't know if i've posted in the right section; sorry if I have. I'd be very grateful for a bit of enlightenment.

I believe i'm in a slow spot where I only have a 2mb line. I'm with eclipse internet and can only reach 302 kb/s download speed using Speedtest. Is this a normal speed for my line or could i get more from another ISP as my downloads are very slow.

Thanks.

Get your router line stats?

What exchange?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 22-Jul-12 20:44:12)

Thanks for the reply, am i supposed to put the link provided in my web browser? I have a Belkin G+ MIMO (F5D9630) and it says "Navigate your browser to:

http://192.168.2.1/"

I get this message:

Oops! Google Chrome could not connect to 192.168.2.1

Press 'start' and R at the same time, type CMD in the run box that opens.
In the black screen that then opens, type ipconfig and hit enter.
In the data that returns the ip address shown for default gateway is the address you want to put in the browser.

Yes! Best way is to click on the link on that page I gave you.

Have you changed your router's IP? If so, you need to change the address to put in your browser.

Cheers guys, I get this page. Are these the stats needed?

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/screenshot2...

Down/Up

Speeds: 3776/448
Noise margins: 8.3/20
Power levels: 12.4/19.6
Attenuations: 40/21

I suggest you remove that link as the rest is irrelevant and has info that a hacker could use to get at you. In particular your IP address and router MAC number.

Have I read all the blurry figures correctly?
_{Edit - downstream margin changed to the figure given by the OP}

Edited by RobertoS (Sun 22-Jul-12 22:22:52)

Yes!

What does http://www.speedtester.bt.com/ (ADSL & FTTC Diagnostics) give? Particularly IP Profile?

What exchange?

Cheers didn't realise.

That 6.3 should be 8.3.

Does this information reveal any issues?

3000?

Lousy sync is the problem.

I'll do this now

Yes, you are connecting at half speed, but even so your throughput is extremely low.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

3000?

Lousy sync is the problem.

Thanks, What's a sync?

Time to suggest the OP retest in the NTE test jack I suspect.

Speeds: 3776/448

These are connection or Sync speeds.

Down Sync should be about 7 Meg,

You don't have a 2 Meg line, but faster.

BTW: Your speedtest of 302 kb/s is in bits, not Bytes, isn't it?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 22-Jul-12 22:29:23)

Sync, (Sychronisation speed), the data rate shown in those stats. Also known as connection speed, and occasionally "line speed", but that last one is ambiguous as at least one ISP uses it for something else.

Have a read of my Ring/Bell wire and Miscellaneous nasties pages. There could be scope there for a doubling or more of your download speed.

Thanks guys, I'll take a look RobertoS.

These are the results of the test.

Download speedachieved during the test was - 2.71 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :3.3 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 3 Mbps

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Speeds: 3776/448

These are connection or Sync speeds.

Down Sync should be about 7 Meg,

You don't have a 2 Meg line, but faster.

BTW: Your speedtest of 302 kb/s is in bits, not Bytes, isn't it?

Yes bits.
So the line is faster?

That 2.71Mbps is fine for the IP Profile. (Also read "Old BT Profile" on my website, as that's what you are on). The IP Profile is determined by your sync speed, and is correct.

The problem is that with your attenuation your sync speed should be at least double what it is, as XRaySpeX and myself said earlier. With luck, the ring wire and one or more other things in the pages I've given you will get you there.

The line is capable of faster speeds, 7 Meg, but is not currently achieving its potential.

The BT speedtest is much more in line with your Sync Speed than the Speedtest.net one.

Follow Roberto's advice and also plug router into test socket behind faceplate and then repeat Router Stats (just copy those 4 lines that Roberto selected, not an host it) and BT Speedtester.

By the way , this could go on for a while.

Registering only takes a couple of minutes, and posting is a heck of a lot easier then. No captchas for a start, and a lot less adverts. Also you can edit for up to 12 hours - see how I altered the margin figure in my earlier post.

You see more forums as well, as some are registered users only. Alter the way the screens appear, (through settings at the bottom of the My Home page). You don't get spammed by the site.

Thanks again guys, I'll sign up later RobertoS i feel this will drag on to aha.

Well i took the faceplate off my phone socket, and connected to the test socket directly however my router picks up no phone or internet connection from the test socket at all, but does as soon as the face plate is fitted again .

Any advice?

Wrongly wired!

The BT cable from outside is wired to the faceplate instead of the rear of the body of socket. Are you sure this is master socket? Does it look like the one on http://www.robertos.me.uk/html/ring-bell_wire.html ? Do you other phone sockets? Do any have a split faceplate?

I didn't read this and just decided to remove the bell wires. My internet download speed is now 6 times faster with the speed test coming in at 1.96mbps. Can't thank you guys enough!!

I've been putting up with this interent for 6 years, and it was all for the sake of a couple of wires i didn't even need.

Thanks guys!!!

One question i do have is you said my line cam go up to 7 meg if i'm not mistaken?

I'm in a slow spot area that does not have high speed broadband yet, i don't think.

Are you sure i can get 7 meg if say i upgraded, as tests say my line is 2 meg?

Ok so turns out the 1.96mb/s is incorrect and still the same.
But the Data Rate downstream has doubled!

How can i test what my throughput is, as it was mentioned it was low?

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

These are the results of the test.

Download speed achieved during the test was - 2.71 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :3.3 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 3 Mbps

Downstream throughput was 2.71Mbps according to your BT speed test.

With a downstream attenuation of 40dB your DSL Connection rate (sync) should be about 7Mbps downstream, but throughput speed can vary by a large amount due to numerous reasons...

Re run the BT speedtest which XRaySpex posted earlier.

If your synch speed has increased you are probably now being restricted by the IP profile.

Thanks guys for the help.

My new stats look strange with the download speed decreasing. However the Down-stream has doubled:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 2.28 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0.6 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :6.18 Mbps(DOWN-STREAM), 0.45 Mbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 2.5 Mbps

Could it be mp ISP thats causing the download speed to be low?

Still far too slow. You are not out of the woods yet.

Post Router Stats and BT Speedtester again.

From what you say you are wired wrongly. Answer my Qs about your sockets.

You are not in a particularly slow spot altho' you may only be able to get Up to 8 Meg BB. You still haven't told us what exchange?

Ah, your Sync Speed is almost what I estimated. You now need to wait a few days, I think, for the IP Profile to catch up with it. At present Sync Speed, IP Profile should rise to 5 Meg and hopefully throughput ("Download speed achieved") should rise with it.

There is no need to upgrade anything; you are almost getting the speed you are due. When we talk of the speed of a line we are talking Sync Speeds.

Always post the corresponding router stats when yo post the BT speedtester results.

Downstream Upstream

Data Rate(Kbps) 6176 448
Noise margin (dB) 9.3 20.0
Output power (dBm)12.3 19.8
Attenuation (dB) 40.0 20.5

Speedtester is above your post.

As far as the socket is concerned i have only one big one like that and it's downstairs. It looks the same as that and with the faceplate on it work perfectly. Take the faceplate off to try the test port, and there is no response. The other sockets around the house are just smaller square sockets, so i'm guessing these won't be the master. The problem is i wouldn't know how to go about rewiring even if i new the problem.

If you mean this by my exchange then this is it:

Exchange name: Woodseaves
Exchange code: WMWOO
Location: Staffordshire, West Midlands
Postcode: ST200LE
Serves (approx): 531 residential premises
65 non-residential premises.

ADSL: Yes
SDSL: No
LLU services: No
Cable: No
Wireless: No

Just read this before my post haha.

So you think my download speed should increase within the next couple of days, should i just wait till then and make no other changes?

OK, last for me tonight.

Your Sync Speed is good; a bit low cuz you have disconned it a few times frequently tonight, but it should recover. Removing the ring wire had the desired effect of improving your Sync.

IP Profile is low for same reason and cuz it was low before. It should increase in a few days if the line stays stable.

Throughput is right for that IP Profile and should follow it up.

Best keep an eye on these stats and wait a few days.

Re Wiring: I guess the main incoming BT cable is connected to the terminals of the faceplate, instead of the A & B terminals behind the body of the socket (thus bypassing the test socket), and further cables are connected to the faceplate to feed the further slave sockets.

You are only in a slow spot in the sense that your exchange only provides Up To 8 Meg ADSL Max. We really thinks of slow or not spots as where the customer can only get < 2 Meg.

Thanks for the clarification, you've been a great help!
I'll keep track of it through the next couple of days and post the results .

Thanks again!

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

tests say my line is 2 meg?

Out of interest, what does this say for your line: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome ?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Anonymous:

tests say my line is 2 meg?

Out of interest, what does this say for your line: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome ?

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 2Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 1Mbps and 3.5Mbps.

BTw - The Broadband Availability Checker for MY line:

"Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 5.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 4Mbps and 8Mbps."

That was with an ADSL MAX downstream attenuation of 34dB, my IP profile was actually 7Mbps, a downstream sync of 8Mbps and throughput of ~6.5Mbps.

So your checker numbers do perhaps look about right for a 40dB downstream attenuation (?) with ADSL MAX.

Edited by 4M2 (Mon 23-Jul-12 17:19:58)

Note the word "estimated"! It generally is very pessimistic.

Note the word "estimated"! It generally is very pessimistic.

I'll say ! Never bothered looking at this checker before.

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 6Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 5Mbps and 8Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 6.5Mbps and 14Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 8Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 6.5Mbps and 14Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports a fibre technology with an estimated WBC FTTC Broadband where consumers have received downstream line speed of 58.5Mbps and upstream line speed of 18Mbps.

Always did a rock solid 8128, then happily did 18.5 on 2+ and now 72/20 on FTTC.

Slightly lost aha. So are you saying for my line i can't expect a better download speed?

After taking out the ring wire yesterday i've noticed my download speed on speedtest.net has increased from 302 kb/s to 650 kb/s. But surely if my line can reach 3.5mb then shouldn't i be achieving a lot more than this?

When i go on to uswitch and do a speed test it says my eclipse internet download speed is 4.7 Mb.

Can anyone explain what that is meant to mean?

However like you said XraySpeX it may take a few days to catch up?
I'm noticing it's slowly increasing. Earlier speedtest.net gave me 600 kb/s

When checking ADSL MAX downstream throughput speed it's probably always best to use the BT speed tester for a reliable and consistent reading.

Achieving the best possible sync speed and eliminating any noise sources from interfering with the broadband signal your side of the master socket should ultimately result in satisfactory downstream throughput, unless there is a problem exchange side of the master socket.

Okay it's rising again at 720 kb/s.

So if my throughput is at 4.46 mbps now based on the bt test. Why is it that my download speed on speedtest is only 720 kb/s. Will it ever reach anywhere near the speed of 4.46?

Once i understand this i think it'll click together in my mind aha.

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-12 19:06:42)

Power the router off over night, that *should* remind DLM in the morning, when you power back up, that it was X sync rate, and still is, so hopefully speed up the process.

www.speedtester.bt.com is the one to use, as this will show you sync rate AND IP profile, which is what is currently mullering your through put speeds.

With a 40dB downstream attenuation a 6000Kbps (~6Mbps) IP Profile is possible, see http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/max_speed_calc.php. Downstream throughput will be less than that for various reasons.

Attenuation or loop loss is a factor which causes reduction in speed usually due to the condition and length of the line to the exchange. To achieve a throughput of 7.15Mbps on an up to 8Mbps ADSL MAX service you would have to be on a relatively short and good line to the exchange.

You have already removed the bell wire which was probably a source of noise and there may indeed be other things that you can do such as checking that all equipment connected to the phone line is properly filtered. However your master socket wiring does seem rather mysterious...

Okay thanks for your help .

I'll give it a go tonight and see what happens tomorrow.

Ah thanks for that. Yes the wiring is very odd it seems, and the test socket is almost certainly dead.
I'll see what i can do to reduce more noise. But i suppose if the max i'm looking at is around 6000 kbps at the moment then 4.5 is well on its way.

In reply to a post by soziblewuup:

Okay it's rising again at 720 kb/s.

So if my throughput is at 4.46 mbps now based on the bt test. Why is it that my download speed on speedtest is only 720 kb/s. Will it ever reach anywhere near the speed of 4.46?

Once i understand this i think it'll click together in my mind aha.

720 kb/s is around a full 8mbps sync

4.46 Mbps would be around 400 kb/s download NOT 4 mb/s ( think you have this confussed)

Fairly new build house at a guess. If so, the mystery of the non functioning master is no mystery. The electrician that doubtless wired the house had no idea which of the two cables coming in was live (usually no service when connected) So connected both to the faceplate knowing that would work when made live. Far from ideal, but then you wouldn't want me doing your electrics now would you ?

Assuming your attenuation is 40dB then your downstream throughput will not be more than the IP Profile of 6000Kbps - but a 4.5Mbps throughput is starting to look good

Yes i did thanks for that!
So hopefully my bt speed test throughput figure will increase tomorrow, if not would it be worth ringing my ISP to see if they know why my throughput isn't quite as high as it should be? (If it's not a problem at the exchange)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Fairly new build house at a guess. If so, the mystery of the non functioning master is no mystery. The electrician that doubtless wired the house had no idea which of the two cables coming in was live (usually no service when connected) So connected both to the faceplate knowing that would work when made live. Far from ideal, but then you wouldn't want me doing your electrics now would you ?

Haha!

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Assuming your attenuation is 40dB then your downstream throughput will not be more than the IP Profile of 6000Kbps - but a 4.5Mbps throughput is starting to look good

Much better than before . Whilst i've been concentrating on this the last day, i may as well see if i can get it to go a little higher. Probably being greedy now aha.

You are not being greedy - you pay for a service and you are entitled to the best speeds and quality that is possible on your line

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

720 kb/s is around a full 8mbps sync

4.46 Mbps would be around 400 kb/s download NOT 4 mb/s ( think you have this confused)

You are confused! Do the maths! You have lost a factor of 10.

How am i confussed

8 Mbps is not 8 mb/s it's around 0.8 mb /s which is around 700 - 800 kb/s download in real world

Forget all these myriad speedtests! They are only confusing you.

Concentrate only on BT Speedtester & your router stats simultaneously for now and post all of Sync Speed, NM, IP Profile & Throughput together, as I keep instructing you,

Too early to call ISP as your line is still recovering from your noisy wiring (ring wire) and your socket may still be affecting tour speeds.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Forget all these myriad speedtests! They are only confusing you.

Concentrate only on BT Speedtester & your router stats simultaneously for now and post all of Sync Speed, NM, IP Profile & Throughput together, as I keep instructing you,

Too early to call ISP as your line is still recovering from your noisy wiring (ring wire) and your socket may still be affecting tour speeds.

Ok will do that .

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

8 Mbps is not 8 mb/s it's around 0.8 mb /s

Eh? How do you make that out?

Removing all the abbreviations you are saying "8 Megabits per second is not 8 Megabits per second; it's around 0.8 Megabits per second" (and that's allowing for your lower case "m" meaning Mega and not milli). Utter twaddle!

When you say 600kb/s do you mean 600 Kilo Bytes per second?

Convention is Kilo Bytes is shorted to KB

Using lower case kb will read as kilo bits (which makes your quoted speeds seem eight times slower).

Oh, I see! You don't know your bits from your Bytes . Join the crowd!

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

You possibly never got round to reading "Old BT Profile" on my website. That explains why your actual speed can take time to adjust once the sync speed has risen .

There is another thing we haven't discussed yet, which may be slowing you down a bit. That is the noise margin at sync time - the time you connect. If you read the stats immediately after a reconnect of the router to the net, I think it will be around 9dB.

If it is, there is a fair chance that will drop to 6dB 10-14 days after we stop messing around. That will give you at least another 500kbps sync speed.

Note - a connection made well inside daylight hours will almost always be quite a bit higher than one made during dawn, dusk or the night.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 23-Jul-12 20:50:44)

I'm going off what Internet explorer etc reports when downloading

On a connection advertised as 2 meg (that's how it's pronounced)

I used to get 180 KB/s displayed by Internet explorer

So are the browsers reporting it wrong?

On my 80 meg

Chrome reports 7600 KB/s generally on downloads

Is that wrong?

Hence my theory that an 8 meg sync which a router displays as 8128 Kbps

You get around 700 KB/s in browsers when downloading (as reported by the browser)

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 23-Jul-12 20:55:55)

The browsers report in Kilo Bytes per second, so 180KB/s is 180*8=1440 kilo bits per second, i.e. 1.4 Meg

Connections are sold on their data rate in bits, Windows reports in Kilo Bytes as that is the usual unit used by the operating system to measure file sizes.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

8 Mbps is not 8 mb/s it's around 0.8 mb /s

Eh? How do you make that out?

Removing all the abbreviations you are saying "8 Megabits per second is not 8 Megabits per second; it's around 0.8 Megabits per second" (and that's allowing for your lower case "m" meaning Mega and not milli). Utter twaddle!

Oh I see!

Yes i'm confusing megabits bytes bits etc
The whole shindig

Edited by ukhardy07 (Mon 23-Jul-12 21:01:45)

When I upload a file and the receiving site indicates that the file is being transferred at ~105KB/s then multiplying that by 8 = ~840Kbps is near enough for me - relating KB/s and Mbps when downloading or transferring files locally can be a bit (excuse the pun) tricky though

However it's critical when setting video bit rates: some compression software will use KB/s, others Kbps or Mbps and even bps...isn't KB/s normally used for transfer rates and Kbps/Mbps for data rates?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You possibly never got round to reading "Old BT Profile" on my website. That explains why your actual speed can take time to adjust once the sync speed has risen .

There is another thing we haven't discussed yet, which may be slowing you down a bit. That is the noise margin at sync time - the time you connect. If you read the stats immediately after a reconnect of the router to the net, I think it will be around 9dB.

If it is, there is a fair chance that will drop to 6dB 10-14 days after we stop messing around. That will give you at least another 500kbps sync speed.


Note - a connection made well inside daylight hours will almost always be quite a bit higher than one made during dawn, dusk or the night.

Thanks . I missed that completely; i found your other two articles very helpful with removing noise!
So i need to wait a couple of days to possibly see further change.

And the KB kb MB mb discussion hurts my head as a university student intent on avoiding maths for the rest of his life aha.

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-12 21:21:31)

Just taking one of examples to enlighten you:

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

On a connection advertised as 2 meg (that's how it's pronounced)

I used to get 180 KB/s displayed by Internet explorer

So are the browsers reporting it wrong?

No, but you are by using lower case "b" (as in your previous posts) instead of upper case "B" (as reported by IE and all its friends) to stand for "Bytes"!

You must be careful to use the right abbreviations in order to communicate with others:
"b" = "bits"
"B" = "Bytes"
And to a lesser extent "M" = "Mega", not "m" which means "milli" (1/1000).

So your example is saying:
On a Connection Speed of 2 Mb/s you are getting a throughput of 180 KB/s = 1.44 Mb/s, i.e. 72% of Sync Speed cuz there overheads on top of the actual data carried. On a pure speedtest (i.e. not IE ) you can expect about 83.5% of Sync = 1670 Kb/s = 209 KB/s.

In reply to a post by soziblewuup:

as a university student intent on avoiding maths for the rest of his life aha.

Impossible! Maths is in everything.

It shocks me to hear today that a uni student would even want to.

And it's not even maths but plain arithmetic.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by soziblewuup:

as a university student intent on avoiding maths for the rest of his life aha.

Impossible! Maths is in everything.

It shocks me to hear today that a uni student would even want to.

And it's not even maths but plain arithmetic.

Haha I avoid it at every calling; it's not the fact i don't want to do it, more so that it physically hurts my head. I know i can ace a good old piece of critical analysis, but ask me to do simple arithmetic, and i'm lost.

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-12 21:38:12)

On a Connection Speed of 2 Mb/s you are getting a throughput of 180 KB/s = 1.44 Mb/s, i.e. 72% of Sync Speed cuz there overheads on top of the actual data carried. On a pure speedtest (i.e. not IE ) you can expect about 83.5% of Sync = 1670 Kb/s = 209 KB/s.

This makes more sense

So when a download on an 80 meg fttc connection displays at 8 Mb/s (and it's using 80% of the 100 meg Ethernet card). Is that being mis reported technically by the browser?

By the logic that a 2 meg connection is written as 2 Mb/s and 80 meg one is written at 80 Mb/s

Then why do browsers show 8 Mb/s during downloads on the 80 meg connection. Surely by this logic the browser should be displaying 80 Mb/s

This is why I said an 8 meg connection is 0.8 Mb/s as a browser would report that during a download. Not 8 Mb/s

I'm taking away from the thread & the ops question so I'll probably read around on this

Post deleted by soziblewuup

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-Jul-12 21:43:42)

Oh dear! You still don't get it.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Then why do browsers show 8 Mb/s during downloads on the 80 meg connection.

The browser doesn't show "8 Mb/s"; it shows "8 MB/s".

The capital "B" is very important and makes a factor of 8 different in what you are quoting..

You need care, care, care!

Try a test download with the ttbmeter if you want - I just did a 10MB File and the speed was 1.291MB/sec or in other terms 10.324Mbps

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Oh dear! You still don't get it.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

Then why do browsers show 8 Mb/s during downloads on the 80 meg connection.

The browser doesn't show "8 Mb/s"; it shows "8 MB/s".

The capital "B" is very important and makes a factor of 8 different in what you are quoting..

You need care, care, care!

I have an old version of download accelerator pro and it's reporting it wrong

It shows it as Mb not MB. After I wrote my post I thought that the capital B was probably the difference

The actual browser is reporting it correctly

I'll try to bear this in mind (& improve it) but hopefully people get an understanding of what I was getting at

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I'll try to bear this in mind (& improve it) but hopefully people get an understanding of what I was getting at

Please do! it gets rather confusing to understand, particularly when a post quotes both bit speeds and Byte speeds.

Thanks for explaining it to me anyway

Always learning