Disconnect on phone ring

Hi,

I'm using Virgin.net ADSL delivered over a SMPF connection.

My Netgear DGN2200 router often loses sync and disconnects when the phone rings. The past couple of days I've had problems getting it to come back without dropping again almost immediately although it does eventually stabilise - esp if I switch the router off for a bit. It's also been dropping at other times the past few days - eg mid-post here!

The occasional disconnect on phone ring has been going on for ages now (but only just now become really problematic) and continues despite a change in router and multiple attemps at changing microfilters - including buying brand new expensive ones rather than using spares that have come with routers over the years.

Wiring plan:

Master Socket--------Filter------Phone
|
|
|
| Extension
|
|
|
Filter
| \
| \___ Router
|
Phone


Any ideas what be causing this? Is there any form of exchange fault that could cause this given that filters are all in the right place?

Thanks for any thoughts. I really don't want to have to phone Virgin.net's support team as I've had less-than good experiences with them in the past.

It's probably an external line fault, but we need to know more detail. Such as who the line rental is paid to.

Do you have a number of phone sockets, or just the master? What sort of master do you have anyway, is it one where the bottom half of the faceplate comes off as in this pic, and is that the socket you use for broadband?

Edit - whoops, just looked at the diagram. Please can you somehow get the router to the master socket and connect the filter to the test socket on the wall at the back in that pic. See how it works then.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 15-Sep-12 14:51:52)

Hi,

It's a master socket where the bottom half comes off.
I've just put the phone directly into that and got some bursts of noise. I also heard some on a Quiet Line Test.
I've now logged a call to BT.

I'm just worried that it will behave when he tests and then they'll try and charge me £100.... any suggestions there?

By "that", you mean the test socket? Not the external socket of the master.

I hope you didn't mention broadband. You just want the noisy line fixed, as whatever is causing that noise could also be causing ADSL-frequency noise.

I still can't get used to not having a person to talk to when reporting a noisy line. That helped a lot, as you then had a BT person backing you up.

With the faceplate off the master, the extension should be completely dead. Is it?

Yes I was using the internal socket which disconnects the extension. I did say to them it was disconnecting the DSL but that on investigating I'd heard bouts of noise on a phone connected inside the master socket and on a quiet line test there.

Thanks for your replies.

Once the line noise is sorted, if the problem continues it could be your broadband filter not doing its job of seperating broadband from voice.

?
Filters only remove the broadband frequencies from the phone circuit. They do not remove anything from the broadband circuit. (Ring wire filters excepted).

I had the same type of problem with this particular model a year or so ago. I was able to 'fix' it by double filtering my phone line. I borrowed another router from my ISP and I was still getting a loss of synch. I then gave up on Netgear and bought a new router and a filtered faceplate. One or the other solved the problem.

Have you tried the Line fault check on BT website. My problem, similar to yours, was caused by corroded wire on BT pole.
Not saying this is your fault as there are a number of variables.

I presume the DSL modem was not connected to the phone line when you heard these bouts of those?

In reply to a post by cantoris:

Hi,

I'm using Virgin.net ADSL delivered over a SMPF connection.

My Netgear DGN2200 router often loses sync and disconnects when the phone rings. The past couple of days I've had problems getting it to come back without dropping again almost immediately although it does eventually stabilise - esp if I switch the router off for a bit. It's also been dropping at other times the past few days - eg mid-post here!

The occasional disconnect on phone ring has been going on for ages now (but only just now become really problematic) and continues despite a change in router and multiple attemps at changing microfilters - including buying brand new expensive ones rather than using spares that have come with routers over the years.

I would request the ISP to send an OR SFI engineer to check the line if turns out not to be a voice fault - seems like you have done all you can by changing routers, filters etc. and using the test socket. If it is a voice fault, and it can be fixed, then hopefully your broadband will stabilise

I had a similar problem last year, i.e. dsl dropping when the phone rang, although I had a quiet line, and an SFI engineer found the problem to be at the exchange after first checking at my test socket and then the cabinet.

I may be wrong, but it is my understanding, that like most filters, broadband filters have a cutoff point, thereby seperatong one set of frequencies within human hearing, from broadband data frequencies outside it. I fail to see how you could seperate one from the other while allowing full bandwidth. Sly seem top agree.
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/view-filters.html
Also, see double filtering.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 15-Sep-12 17:14:05)

No I heard it with just a phone on the inner test socket.

The ADSL socket on a microfilter has no filtering applied to it. The modem itself contains a high pass filter to remove the voice frequencies.

If you look at the circuit diagrams here, you will see the RJ11 socket is unfiltered http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php

Can't you read? The sly Sky page you pin your hopes on even says:

In reference to www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/view-filters.html:

The one marked as modem is completely un filtered so when the router is connected to this it gets all the bandwidth including any voice signals - which the router simply ignores.

What's an "OR SFI" engineer and what do they do specifically?
Thanks!

Same applies to the A&B unfiltered adsl terminals on the back of a pressac faceplate.

In reply to a post by cantoris:

What's an "OR SFI" engineer and what do they do specifically?
Thanks!

Well the OR (Open Reach) SFI engineer, when he visited me, plugged the test equipment into the test socket and then made a phone call to my landline number from his mobile. After a few rings the equipment recorded a a very high error rate which was sufficient to drop the dsl connection. This very high error rate was found to be caused by a burst of noise, that was eventually tracked down somewhere in the exchange kit, that happened when the phone rang.

BTW. I was not billed for this visit since the fault was beyond the boundaries of my property and was entirely OR's responsibility.

OR = Openreach.
SFI - Serious Faults Investigation. Which in the past meant what it said. These days, pretty well anything that isn't obvious.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Can't you read?

I wonder if you can you rude individual. You will see it also states the micro filter only lets a small part of the frequency spectrum through; the part needed for voice/fax
I am sorry, but I am not letting you get away with lecturing me on filters, which is a subject I teach.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

If you look at the circuit diagrams here, you will see the RJ11 socket is unfiltered http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php

If that were the case, you would end up with broadband data direct to the lughole.

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Can't you read?

I wonder if you can you rude individual. You will see it also states the micro filter only lets a small part of the frequency spectrum through; the part needed for voice/fax

To the phone side! You are returning to your obtuse attitude previously demonstrated many times, from which you have mercifully refrained for a decent period..

This sub-thread starts with your nonsense post, and nothing you have said or linked to supports that post.

I am sorry, but I am not letting you get away with lecturing me on filters, which is a subject I teach.

??????
I don't believe that statement.

No you would not, as the RJ11 is the socket you plug the ADSL modem into. The telephone goes into the filtered socket that does NOT carry any ADSL frequencies, i.e. the low pass side

Edited by MrSaffron (Sat 15-Sep-12 20:12:56)

Forum regulars should accept correction for what it is, an attempt to ensure that myths do not build up and that we as a community do not mislead other visitors.

The key is that if any of us are shown to be wrong we learn by this, and thus over time offer ever better advice.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I am sorry, but I am not letting you get away with lecturing me on filters, which is a subject I teach.

??????
I don't believe that statement.

The Prof makes a mean cup of Colombian coffee, but I suspect he's on their other product

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

No you would not, as the RJ11 is the socket you plug the ADSL modem into. The telephone goes into the filtered socket that does carry any ADSL frequencies, i.e. the low pass side

You're missing a rather important "not" there Andrew .

Sorry, wrong poster!

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 15-Sep-12 19:40:30)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Forum regulars should accept correction for what it is, an attempt to ensure that myths do not build up and that we as a community do not mislead other visitors.

The key is that if any of us are shown to be wrong we learn by this, and thus over time offer ever better advice.

?
That seems to say I should accept correction about something? If so, I'm confused. Is it in fact a reply to our professor?

You started this by disagreeing with Roberto's definitive statement. You even accept you may be wrong but refuse to listen to numerous respected posters telling you that you were wrong. You appear not to read and learn!

A general statement for how everyone should behave when trying to offer advice, we all are subject to peer review in this respect.

Hmmm .

But you still need to fix this post. It says the exact opposite of what you mean. It needs a "not" in "that does carry any ADSL frequencies". We know its a typo. SOmeone less knowledgeable could take it as fact.

Fixed

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

If you look at the circuit diagrams here, you will see the RJ11 socket is unfiltered http://www.adslnation.com/support/filters.php

If that were the case, you would end up with broadband data direct to the lughole.

I can fully understand your theory about the broadband and voice frequencies being filtered: I was also under the impression (until corrected recently by RobertoS) that voice and broadband frequencies were separated by the filter with these my incorrect assumptions:

a) only voice frequencies could pass to and from the phone.

b) only broadband frequencies could pass to and from the modem/router X

In fact both voice and broadband frequencies reach the modem/router but the modem/router ignores the voice frequencies. The filter actually only allows voice frequencies to pass to and from the phone (in effect a branch from the raw stream) and also blocks any high frequencies that could be generated by home telephone equipment, connected to filters, interfering with the broadband signal. I believe this is correct but if not hopefully I will be corrected

However maybe the filter located at the exchange does actually split the voice and broadband into two separate signals: the filtered voice frequencies going to one piece of exchange kit and the filtered broadband frequencies going to another piece of kit?

Edited by 4M2 (Sat 15-Sep-12 21:37:24)

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

No you would not, as the RJ11 is the socket you plug the ADSL modem into. The telephone goes into the filtered socket that does NOT carry any ADSL frequencies, i.e. the low pass side

The low pass side is everything below the filter cutoff frequency. Which is an admission in my book that wanted frequencies are seperated out from others as in all filters.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You started this by disagreeing with Roberto's definitive statement. You even accept you may be wrong but refuse to listen to numerous respected posters telling you that you were wrong. You appear not to read and learn!

I have probably forgotten more than you have ever learned, though I still recognise an obtuse anorak.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Can't you read?

I wonder if you can you rude individual. You will see it also states the micro filter only lets a small part of the frequency spectrum through; the part needed for voice/fax

To the phone side! You are returning to your obtuse attitude previously demonstrated many times, from which you have mercifully refrained for a decent period..

This sub-thread starts with your nonsense post, and nothing you have said or linked to supports that post.

I am sorry, but I am not letting you get away with lecturing me on filters, which is a subject I teach.

??????
I don't believe that statement.

That's your problem, you don't believe anything. You are the cleverdick that spouted my last username, which happened to be my Amateur Radio callsign. So why do you find it hard to believe I may be putting students through the RAE?
Before you fall off your high horse, how about a mention that a channel clash of cordless phone frequeccies can easily fell a router. Something I learned and remembered.

Edited by professor973 (Sat 15-Sep-12 21:04:54)

Post deleted by MrSaffron

Which type of cordless phones? DECT should not affect 802.11 wireless due to the frequencies used.

US model cordless phones do use 2.4GHz if memory serves me right though. That is a joy of an unlicensed spectrum also used by baby alarms and video senders.

That's your problem, you don't believe anything. You are the cleverdick that spouted my last username.

You denied at least twice that was your previous nick, rather vehemently. So you have form on telling untruths.

So why do you find it hard to believe I may be putting students through the RAE?

First, you repeatedly say you are a full-time carer. Usually to excuse your descent into foul language and threats. The post I'm replying to seems to be on the verge of your doing that.

Second, you didn't mention RAE. Which is ...

... Ah - it's 16th on this list. Which means you may know a bit about some sort of filters used in amateur radio, but apparently zilch about ADSL filters which were the subject of discussion. So with luck you aren't teaching them something that is incorrect.

Resorts to entry eight in the list.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Which type of cordless phones? DECT should not affect 802.11 wireless due to the frequencies used.

US model cordless phones do use 2.4GHz if memory serves me right though. That is a joy of an unlicensed spectrum also used by baby alarms and video senders.

Whilst DECT and Cell phones do not use the 2.4 ghz frequency. Many cordless phones sold in UK do use the 2.4 ghz frequency. They hop to avoid interference.
Againwe are getting away from the OP question. Better to ignore some comments rather than antagonise.

Edited by flippery (Sat 15-Sep-12 22:12:54)

You are aware you are addressing a Staff member?

Sorry if you have had this answer already, the thread has got a little side tracked, so gave up reading all the way through.

If you have tried replacement filters, also with the router on it's own, connected to the NTE test socket, and the problem persists.....
It's either an HR fault on the line, or faulty SMPF equipment in the exchange. As suggested, pester your ISP for an SFI visit.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Second, you didn't mention RAE. Which is ...

I assume he means the Research Assessment Exercise used by the Higher Education Funding Council to assess the quality of research done by Universities. If that is the case, he wouldn't be putting students through it since it is members of staff whose peer reviewed published research is assessed for quality and value.

No, he's on about Radio Amateurs 10-4 good buddy
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publicatio...