Slow speeds and daily connection loss

Hi, can anyone offer some help/advice please?

My connection is slow (1.5MB or less) and everyday I lose connection momentarily between 15:00 and 15:30.

My ISP is Sky and I live in a new (2011) house so have an external NTE. My router stats are:

Speed - 1985kbps / 606kbps
Attenuation - 57db / 36db
Noise - 7db / 10db

In speed tests I get between one and one and a half MB.

Sky refuse to help me as they say I must have an internal master socket, they just say that the problem must be the wiring in my house so have told me to install an internal master socket then call them back. I find this hard to believe though as this problem would affect all new homes, and there are thousands of them.

I have read lots about people installing filter face plates etc and this helping, is it likely that this could help me?

The external NTE is a pain sometimes, as builders have wired things up to them in a star config.

The idea was that it should be wired to one socket on the inside of the house and the extensions run from there. How is yours wired up?

Your speeds are below expectation, but that may be because Sky always tend to under perform connection speed wise, favouring stability over raw speed.

Hasn't the external NTE now been scrapped for any further installations Andrew? The OP being in the unfortunate position of having one.

That is my understanding. Guessing the number of visits to fix wiring negated any advantages.

FTTC has to be installed at the master socket...

Hi MrSaffron

Thanks for the quick response, I don't know how my wiring is arranged. I have lots of sockets though! One in a cupboard in the hall (nearest the external NTE) then two in the lounge and two more in bedrooms.

How do I find out how they are wired up?

Thanks again

Tim

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I have read lots about people installing filter face plates etc and this helping, is it likely that this could help me?

See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm - external NTE

You may be able to connect an internal standard socket with a filtered faceplate to IDC terminals labelled 2 & 5 on the external NTE5 using a suitable cable (or even the existing cable.) Extensions could then be taken from the back of the internal filtered faceplate and they would be filtered for voice. Either the front connector or A&B terminals on the filtered faceplate could be used for the unfiltered adsl.

It has been said that an internal NTE5 can be used with components, surge arrestor etc., removed and that will provide you with an internal test socket - but I haven't tried that myself.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 25-Sep-12 16:52:26)

Post deleted by TSPlowright

Of no relevance as query is about ADSL

And the FTTC and master is only if you don't take the data extension kit and want to ensure the best possible performance

Only way is to carefully unscrew faceplates and take photos so we can see what is going on.

The general solution is to get the wiring back to the point where you have one socket that works in the home, and it has just two wires going to it.

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_in... should if you have 85mm faceplates be a nice replacement, and then if you want other phone extensions they can run from the back of this socket, and would be filtered already.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I have read lots about people installing filter face plates etc and this helping, is it likely that this could help me?

See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm - external NTE

You may be able to connect an internal standard socket with a filtered faceplate to IDC terminals labelled 2 & 5 on the external NTE5 using a suitable cable (or even the existing cable.) Extensions could then be taken from the back of the internal filtered faceplate and they would be filtered for voice. Either the front connector or A&B terminals on the filtered faceplate could be used for the unfiltered adsl.

It has been said that an internal NTE5 can be used with components, surge arrestor etc., removed and that will provide you with an internal test socket - but I haven't tried that myself.

Oh dear, that response has totally confused me. Can you, or anyone else, translate the information into terms a newbie can better understand please?

Another factor worth mentioning here is that my wife is going to be VERY resistant to any new cables being run around the walls of the house...so any solutions will ideally need to only involve changes to face plates, and not installation of new wiring etc. Is this even remotely possible?

I think 4M2 is saying that I may be able to use the existing wiring and simply install a new faceplate, if this is the case which one should I use and how easy/hard is it to do?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Only way is to carefully unscrew faceplates and take photos so we can see what is going on.

The general solution is to get the wiring back to the point where you have one socket that works in the home, and it has just two wires going to it.

http://www.adslnation.com/phpapps/catalog/product_in... should if you have 85mm faceplates be a nice replacement, and then if you want other phone extensions they can run from the back of this socket, and would be filtered already.

OK, so how do I work out which socket to use (I have five) as the new 'master, and is it certain that I will be able to re-instate all of the other sockets once this is done? You can probably tell that I am nervous of doing this as I am a total novice.

On that note, I can't unscrew the current faceplates as the screws are covered with plastic disks. Do I just take a screw driver to these to get the out of the way., or is there a proper way to remove them without doing and damage?

I did just go and open up the external NTE there appear to be an extra set of wires which aren't connected to anything...not sure why though?

Lastly, how do I post a picture in the forum?

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Of no relevance as query is about ADSL

It's the reason they abandoned the external NTE though

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I think 4M2 is saying that I may be able to use the existing wiring and simply install a new faceplate, if this is the case which one should I use and how easy/hard is it to do?

Depends entirely upon how your extensions are currently wired - for starters: how many wires are connected to the terminals 2,3 & 5 on the external NTE5. If there is only one wire per terminal then we may be in business

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I think 4M2 is saying that I may be able to use the existing wiring and simply install a new faceplate, if this is the case which one should I use and how easy/hard is it to do?

Depends entirely upon how your extensions are currently wired - for starters: how many wires are connected to the terminals 2,3 & 5 on the external NTE5. If there is only one wire per terminal then we may be in business

Thanks again 4M2.

Yes, there is only one set of wires per terminal (there is another set, but they aren't connected at all at present?)

Also, in your first post you linked to some information the external NTE and it said the orange wire shouldn't be attached when ADSL is in use, but mine is attached...does this matter?

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

Yes, there is only one set of wires per terminal (there is another set, but they aren't connected at all at present?)

Also, in your first post you linked to some information the external NTE and it said the orange wire shouldn't be attached when ADSL is in use, but mine is attached...does this matter?

Don't worry about the unconnected wires and the orange bell wire for now, can you establish where those connected wires go to first, i.e. which one of the internal sockets? If you can establish that, then that socket will probably be the one to use with a filtered faceplate etc.

Edit: we are assuming that you are using "dangle" filters on the internal extension sockets to which you have phones, maybe sky box, etc. connected.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 25-Sep-12 18:49:56)

Ideally a picture of the external NTE as in http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/images/phone/external_NTE... is the first step.

I presume you mean you have the orange wire going to pin 3. The orange wire should detach, just look closely for the jaws (IDC connector) and lift the wire from pin 3 out.

Doing that change alone may help improve speeds and reduce connection loss.

In reply to a post by 4M2:

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

Yes, there is only one set of wires per terminal (there is another set, but they aren't connected at all at present?)

Also, in your first post you linked to some information the external NTE and it said the orange wire shouldn't be attached when ADSL is in use, but mine is attached...does this matter?

Don't worry about the unconnected wires and the orange bell wire for now, can you establish where those connected wires go to first, i.e. which one of the internal sockets? If you can establish that, then that socket will probably be the one to use with a filtered faceplate etc.

Edit: we are assuming that you are using "dangle" filters on the internal extension sockets to which you have phones, maybe sky box, etc. connected.

Yes, I do have 'dangle' filters on all active sockets, but I have no idea which is the first socket or how to work out which one is first. Any advice on establishing this would be gratefully received?

I have now removed the orange wire from the external NTE as suggested by MrSaffron, but it hasn't changed the speed test results (1.4MB up and 0.5MB down) when using the uswitch tester.

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I have now removed the orange wire from the external NTE as suggested by MrSaffron, but it hasn't changed the speed test results (1.4MB up and 0.5MB down) when using the uswitch tester.

Have you re-synced/rebooted the router and compared the stats with those you gave in the first post?

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

...I have no idea which is the first socket or how to work out which one is first. Any advice on establishing this would be gratefully received?

Since you have now disconnected the orangle/white (?) bell wire from the terminal on the external NTE5 you can twist that together with the previously unconnected white/orange wire to make an electrical connection.

Go to all the internal sockets and disconnect all the bell wires - which are all probably orange/white.

Now go to the internal socket that's nearest the external NTE5 and check to see if you can pass a low voltage current, using a circuit tester, the bulb and battery connections in a torch or similar, through any of the orange/white and white/orange pairs to test for a circuit at that socket. The cable that allows the current to flow through a particular pair will be the one that comes from the external NTE5.

If orange/white and white/orange pairs at the nearest internal socket to the external NTE5 don't carry the low voltage current then you will have to test at another of the internal sockets.

Edited by 4M2 (Tue 25-Sep-12 20:47:55)

Speed tests are not what is needed to evaluate whether you have improved wiring, the router stats should be the first port of call

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Speed tests are not what is needed to evaluate whether you have improved wiring, the router stats should be the first port of call

Hello again, the router stats are now as follows:

Speed - 1829kbps / 606kbps
Attenuation - 56db / 36db
Noise - 7db / 10db

I still haven't worked out how to get the little plastic disks/plugs out of the way so I can remove the face plates but I do have a picture of the external NTE. What I lack is the knowledge of how to post a picture in the forum, is there a guide somewhere?

EDIT: I just emailed the pictures to MrSaffron so at least you can see them!

Thanks

Tim

Edited by deleted (Wed 26-Sep-12 09:19:10)

You can't post pics here. You upload them to a free place of your choice and post a link.

Nothing exciting really, but it is just a single cable entering the property and it is twisted pair, and uses the blue/white pair correctly.

My gut is saying the slow speeds now ring wire is gone are probably down to the fact that Sky DLM is often slower than other providers. Also if using the Sky Sagem modem I have just got a different router running on my Sky line, and gained 10% sync speed, so seems the Sagem 2504 itself is conservative on the sync front.

I still haven't worked out how to get the little plastic disks/plugs out of the way so I can remove the face plates

These are little blanking caps over the screws ? If so, the tip of a knife eased under a corner, then just popped off, should do the trick.

As for posting links to pictures, try Photobucket, it's free, and then you just copy the links in to your posts.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I still haven't worked out how to get the little plastic disks/plugs out of the way so I can remove the face plates

These are little blanking caps over the screws ? If so, the tip of a knife eased under a corner, then just popped off, should do the trick.

As for posting links to pictures, try Photobucket, it's free, and then you just copy the links in to your posts.

Thank you Jarjaz, but I just signed up to Flickr before I saw your post. Hopefully this will work: http://www.flickr.com/photos/87707134@N06/?savedsett...

You should all now be able to see what I have got so far, I am going to go and try getting the face plate off again now and will upload a picture once/if done.

Thanks

Tim

Thought you had removed the bell wire from the external NTE ? Still in place in that photo.

Yep, dig those caps out with a knife tip. Aesthetically pleasing, but a huge PITA in practice.

Before you start getting jiggy with your internal wiring, might be worth investing in a krone tool.

The bellwire is still in place in the picture he linked.

Hi Jarjaz, I thought I had put a note saying that this was the picture taken before the wire was removed. Either way I can assure you that it is no longer connected.

I am going to get one of the electricians on the site in to install the new faceplate, so hopefully he will have the 'krone tool'.

OK, cool. Where abouts in the country are you ?

In reply to a post by TSPlowright:

I am going to get one of the electricians on the site in to install the new faceplate, so hopefully he will have the 'krone tool'.

If the socket in the hall cupboard turns out to be the one connected directly to the external NTE5 will that be a convenient place for the router? If not the wiring to another socket in the house could be a little complex...it's probably a good thing that you are getting some help from an experienced electrician

it's probably a good thing that you are getting some help from an experienced electrician

Cheered me up no end, funniest thing I have heard in days.

It is the work of 'experienced electricians' that causes these, very common, new build internal wiring issues in the 1st place.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

it's probably a good thing that you are getting some help from an experienced electrician

Cheered me up no end, funniest thing I have heard in days.

It is the work of 'experienced electricians' that causes these, very common, new build internal wiring issues in the 1st place.

Lol!

But at least if the OP can isolate one internal socket from the rest of the extension wiring he will have a "master" socket of sorts for testing?

Edited by 4M2 (Wed 26-Sep-12 12:27:32)

But at least if the OP can isolate one internal socket from the rest of the extension wiring he will have a "master" socket of sorts for testing?

Yep, and is within his 'rights' to fit an NTE there.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

But at least if the OP can isolate one internal socket from the rest of the extension wiring he will have a "master" socket of sorts for testing?

Yep, and is within his 'rights' to fit an NTE there.

Won't the internal NTE5 need some guts removing, otherwise there will be two masters in series?

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 26-Sep-12 13:41:20)

Won't the internal NTE5 need some guts removing, otherwise there will be two masters in series?

Strictly speaking, yes. But it ain't no biggy, won't cause any issues.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Won't the internal NTE5 need some guts removing, otherwise there will be two masters in series?

Strictly speaking, yes. But it ain't no biggy, won't cause any issues.

That's interesting because having an internal test socket would be good, meaning that an "experienced electrician" wouldn't have to mess with a NTE5

No, but to provide said test socket, they would have to fit one.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

No, but to provide said test socket, they would have to fit one.

Perhaps I didn't express clearly what I meant by messing with a NTE5. Rather am I correct in thinking that a complete NTE5 could be used without the need to remove any components and hence a test socket would be available: i.e. an unmodified NTE5 could be fitted "as is" without any need to mess about with it's components?

Yep, that's correct.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

OK, cool. Where abouts in the country are you ?

Hi Jarjaz, I am in Horley in Surrey (RH6), why do you ask?

Might have been in an area I know/work, therefore have had some idea of what you might reasonably expect.

I do know Horley, I'm a Surrey lad, born and bred, but don't work that way.