Confused by EE/Orange

Hi,

About 18 months ago I was happily getting a decent broadband speed from Orange on their 'up to 20mb' (using a LLU connection?). I used to get about 17 to 18mb most of the time and had been getting this for a couple of years.

Then they 'upgraded' the network/exchange and dumped me onto ip stream 'up to 8mb' (I think!)

Several phone calls later they admitted I was one of about 2% of people who lost speed due to the changes but stated that they couldn't do anything about it as "Sky now own the exchange". At the time, the BT speedtest thing said I was limited to an 'up to 8mb' connection but the Sky one suggested I could get 'up to 20mb'.

At that point I didn't see much of an option other than to move to Sky (didn't want to do that) or stick with the 'up to 8mb' connection, so I settled on the latter with a suitable bribe from Orange as I knew they were currently engaged in upgrading my exchange to use fibre so hoped I would be able to use fibre once the local area had been upgraded. In practice the fibre upgrades have now been completed but I can't have it because I'm too close to the exchange so connect directly to it rather than through a street cabinet!

Anyway, I noticed in October that the BT speed test was showing that I could expect a speed of about 17mb so I contacted Orange again to point out that my bill still says I'm paying for an 'up to 20mb' connection so why wasn't I on it? They agreed to put me on a different type of connection (WBC?) to get the faster speed if I signed up for another 12 month so I was happy to accept and they promised to upgrade and reprofile my line and that it should all be done within a couple of weeks. My new contract was started on the 4th of November 2012.

4 weeks later I still hadn't seen any speed increase so I phoned Orange (now EE) and was told, eventually, that they appeared to have 'forgotten' some part of the process but that they had now initiated the changes needed to complete the process but that it would take up to 10 days to settle down. I was told by the same 'engineer' that by the time I got home from work I should be able to see a new downstream connection speed even though my actual download speeds may be eratic for 10 days.

3 days later there had been no change to the downstream connection speed reported by my router - it remains at 8128kbps - so I phoned Orange again. An hour later I was being informed that it would change within the 10 days as the system worked out my optimum speed. This is in conflict with the statement by the previous engineer that the downstream connection speed should have increased by the time I got home. I tried arguing the point but the latest 'engineer' insisted I just had to wait.

Who is right? Should my downstream connection speed have changed by now (now 4 days since reprofiling started)?

This is what my Netgear router is currently reporting:

System Up Time 11:19:57
Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 377612 440508 0 1860 4274 26:19:19
LAN 10M/100M 66944 0 0 133 0 26:19:48
WLAN 11M/54M 23083718 23001817 0 31458 24067 22:30:21

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 8128 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 6.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 6.8 db 23.0 db

Thanks for any help on this,

Confused Chris

yes it should of changed, orange are a bunch of muppets. if you dont get anywhere with them contact the ceo

[email protected]

Edited by deleted (Sat 08-Dec-12 23:32:40)

Thanks, do you happen to know any contact details for Kermit?

i have managed to find this but thats about it really but im sue if you google it you will find

[email protected]

also just found this number 0870 8700 862 its the Orange Executive Office for complaints i would ring them and say your not getting anywhere with there clueless tech support. You should be getting the full 24meg on your line its very short, you must be next door to the exchange

Thanks, all google routes appear to lead to the exec office via him so I'll give it a try and let you know how I get on!

Ah, thanks for the phone number, I'll give that a go.

Yes, I'm close the exchange, about 162 yards apparently. When I was originally contacted and offered the 20mb connection, about 5 years ago, the woman who called me asked for my permission to run a test on my line, which I gave, and then asked if she could run the tests again as the results were a little odd. After running the tests a second time she asked if I lived in the exchange as the results were the best she'd seen!

What exchange?

What does this say for your phone number, http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome ?

Yes, about April 2011 Orange abandoned their LLU and handed the running of their BB to BT Wholesale, putting everyone on either IPStream (8 Meg ADSL Max) at 20CN exchanges or WBC (24 Meg ADSL2+) at 21CN exchanges. Depends which yours was at the time.

In reply to a post by DoveKeeper:

Thanks, all google routes appear to lead to the exec office via him so I'll give it a try and let you know how I get on!

Hi, you are still on ADSL 8 Meg Max service and have not been upgraded to 21CN WBC ADSL2+ 20 Meg speed.

What BT exchange are you connected to? Find your exchange and tell us what exchange you are connected to http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

To get in contact EE Orange with a complaint you need to write to them.

If you really do want to write in please include your...

Home Broadband Account Number
email address
telephone number
name
postal address

...so we know who you are and can get back to you right away.

contact address
Orange Customer Care
Orange UK Plc
PO Box 486
Rotherham
S63 5ZX

http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/2...

http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/c...

In reply to a post by E7er:

Home Broadband Account Number

It never said that! Not many people know that .

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by E7er:

Home Broadband Account Number

It never said that! Not many people know that .

The home broadband account number is displayed within the broadband account Login under view statements�
It�s strange they don�t ask for the account number, maybe if someone types in the wrong number, they then go to work on the wrong account.

https://web.orange.co.uk/r/login/?servicename=Your+A...

Edited by deleted (Sun 09-Dec-12 14:23:22)

I know that, but not many do! They don't ask for it on the phone either; all they need is name, addy, phone # and 2 chars from pwd.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 09-Dec-12 14:31:16)

If I was writing to them I would state my account number.

As I have just done, but the point was they never asked for it.

I'm on the Knottingley exchange: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MYKNO

This is what the BT wholesale broadband availability checker says:

For Telephone Number 01977xxxxxx on Exchange KNOTTINGLEY

Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.


Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 7Mbps and 8Mbps.


Our test also indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL2+ broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 17Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 10Mbps and 19.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1.5Mbps and downstream line speed of 17Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 10Mbps and 19.5Mbps.

The actual stable line speed supportable will be determined during the first 10 days of use. This speed may change over time, to ensure line stability is maintained.

blah, blah, blah

In reply to a post by E7er:

Hi, you are still on ADSL 8 Meg Max service and have not been upgraded to 21CN WBC ADSL2+ 20 Meg speed.

Thanks to your answer I now feel qualified to provide a better standard of support than the idiots who have dealt with my calls so far as I had at least managed to work this out myself, whereas they can't understand it even when it's suggested to them!

To be honest, the only reason I've not moved elsewhere is that I've got a website hosted on an old freeserve address and I haven't had time to shift it elsewhere. Maybe it's time I found some time!

I'm not at work on Wednesday so I think I'll make one last attempt at phoning them before telling them to stick their account where the sun don't shine. I'll let you know how I get on.

Chris

If you do move your website hosting, don't move it to your next ISP. You could easily have the same problem again if you want to move again.

See this page.

Hi Chris, We don�t want your telephone number just the exchange details to make sure it is 21CN WBC ADSL 2+ enabled, which Knottingley exchange is so you should have been upgraded to the WBC ADSL2+ 20 Meg speed service.

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/MYKNO

**My new contract was started on the 4th of November 2012

**Your best bet is to write a polite letter explaining you have not been upgraded as promised from ADSL 8 Meg Max service to the 21CN WBC ADSL 2+ home broadband service.

Example�
Dear Sir or madam, about 18 months ago I was happily getting a decent broadband speed from Orange on the 'up to 20mb' (using a LLU connection). I used to get about 17 to 18mb most of the time and had been getting this for a couple of years.

Then they 'upgraded' the network/exchange and dumped me onto IP Stream 'up to 8mb' service.

Several phone calls later they admitted I was one of about 2% of people who lost speed due to the changes but stated that they couldn't do anything about it as "Sky now own the exchange". At the time, the BT speed test said I was limited to an 'up to 8mb' connection, but the Sky one suggested I could get 'up to 20mb' with them. At that point I didn't see much of an option other than to moving to Sky.

I noticed in October that the BT speed test was now showing that I could expect a speed of about 17mb so I contacted Orange again to point out that my bill still says I'm paying for an 'up to 20mb' connection so why wasn't I on it? They agreed to put me on a different type of connection (WBC) to get the faster speed, if I signed up for another 12 month. So I was happy to accept, they promised to upgrade and reprofile my line, and that it should all be done within a couple of weeks. My new contract was started on the 4th of November 2012.

4 weeks later I still hadn't seen any speed increase so I phoned Orange (now EE) and was told, eventually, that they appeared to have 'forgotten' some part of the process but that they had now initiated the changes needed to complete the process, but that it would take up to 10 days to settle down. I was told by the same advisor that by the time I got home from work I should be able to see a new downstream connection speed even though my actual download speeds may be erratic for 10 days.

3 days later there had been no change to the downstream connection speed reported by my Orange Netgear DGN1000 router - it remains at 8128kbps - so I phoned Orange again. An hour later I was informed that it would change within the 10 days as the system worked out my optimum speed.
After one month and 10 days my EE Orange home broadband service still shows with the BT speed test as being on the ADSL 8 Meg Max service and not the 21CN WBC ADSL2+ 20 Meg service as promised and informed by your advisors. Please can you look into this for me.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

If you do move your website hosting, don't move it to your next ISP. You could easily have the same problem again if you want to move again.

The difficulty is only in finding a suitable place to host the website, preferably free, as I've already got a domain name which I use for email and web forwarding, so all I have to do it point it elsewhere. It's probably more accurate to say that the difficulty is mainly down to my laziness!

Chris

I don't know of any free web hosting sites that I would rely on. Where is the domain hosted?

The domain is currently hosted at Amen and they can provide hosting - these are the options they give: http://www.amenworld.com/static/index_2002.html

I currently have a 'Web Mail Pack' which does my web and email forwarding and provides a token 2mb (yes, mb not gb!) html web space. The website I currently host with Orange needs about 14mb.

Currently, my site is generated programatically from an xml file before being uploaded to the Orange web space. Amen's 'Web Mail+ Pack' would give me 2gb but I could really do with rewriting the site to use a database, meaning I'd need to use their 'Web Pro Pack', and I've really not got the time at the moment.

Looks like that is a legacy product, not available now. How much does it cost, as their current prices are exorbitant.

From what you describe, you could upload your site to any website host you like? Then do your site rewrite later on when you have time. Click the Tsohost link in my sig and compare!

I think you might be very surprised at the power of the free NetObjects Fusion Essentials site design package. I used to use it but now have the paid for full version 12. Have a look at my website, (link in my sig), which used to be on Essentials.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 13-Dec-12 09:33:19)

I think it is a legacy product, but fortunately it doesn't cost a massive amount and I paid for a few years in advance although it is due for renewal soon and I'm not sure what the prices are currently. It includes the cost of maintaining my domain registration and unlimited web and mail forwarding (if they're the right terms).

Yes, I could upload my (my wife's!) site to any host. What's really been putting me off is that there seems to be a significant difference in cost between what I need now and what I need when I get round to doing the rewrite.

Part of the rewrite problem is that my wife makes and sells unique items which each have their own page. When they are sold, just changing a single field in the XML file containing all the details results in the individual page being rewriten while the index pages showing items for sale and previously sold items are updated appropriately. It's changes like that that I've found to be lacking from site design software in the past but I must admit I've not looked at many since I wrote my wife's site about 12 years ago - I imagine things may have changed a little!

It's old but it's functional, quite quick , doesn't use much space and takes very little effort to totally transform when we do themed pages, like for Christmas, halloween, etc., (I've not done it this year as she'd been too busy with other stuff). This is it if you're interested: www.janetbears.co.uk

Meanwhile, I'm now on a faster sync speed but my actual download and upload speeds are suddenly all over the place:

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 1837373 1612730 0 17136 8572 28:08:57
LAN 10M/100M 394406 0 0 132 0 167:34:03
WLAN 11M/54M 133112054 132674438 0 16525 25817 19:44:38

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 20658 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 9.0 db 2.5 db
Noise Margin 7.6 db 17.1 db


Many thanks to everyone on this thread for their contributions!

Chris

That looks much better. You are now on WBC ADSL2+, comparable with the old LLU.

In reply to a post by DoveKeeper:

but my actual download and upload speeds are suddenly all over the place:

Is that wireless or over Ethernet? Wireless speeds can be inconsistent.

What are the text results from http://speedtester.bt.com/ (not the Beta)?

Nice site . (I won't paste the correct url , as that would get it picked up by forum crawler bots and you don't need that. Suffice to say that the "s" is missing from the middle).

The domain registration for it with Tsohost would be £6.70 every two years. (£3.35 per year). Plus on transfer in they used to and I think still do give you a free year.

A suitable site hosting and email package to go with it would be "Lite" at £14.99 per year - I can't imagine you would need more than that offers. Forget what I said about NetObjects Fusion for now, but when you do come to rewrite then "Lite" gives you 3 MySQL databases. You don't need a Windows platform, the Linux ones will be fine.

You seem to have done a good design and implementation job there. I can see why you aren't in a hurry to start again with a database approach!

The house improvements must be huge, as the "Shows" page is a little dated ... .

It's on wireless but it's normally pretty reliable and I don't suffer from neighbourly interference

It's a lot better tonight and the connection speed has gone up to 21475 kbps (download) and 1203 kbps (upload) with the bt speedtester showing:

Download speedachieved during the test was - 19.5 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 19.95 Mbps

I suspect they kicked off another 'regrading' session to it can find the optimium connection speed.

Speedtest.net now reports a ping of 26ms, download speed of 19.46 Mbps and an upload speed of 1.02 Mbps - I'm happy with that.

Chris

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Nice site . (I won't paste the correct url , as that would get it picked up by forum crawler bots and you don't need that. Suffice to say that the "s" is missing from the middle).

Well spotted and thanks for the comments!

I'm currently doing the downstairs bathroom, been at it for about 6 months now, plaster taken off back to bricks, ceiling replaced, massive cast iron pipes removed, etc., but we're now rebuilding so things are looking up - done the tiling and some wallpapering in the last week and should have the shower installed and working before Christmas

I will be looking at Lite in the next few days - it's looks okay at first sight so thanks!

Chris

Late edit: just been having a proper look at TSOHOST and even gave them a call to test their support. They appear to be a pleasure to deal with and will be getting my business in the next couple of days! I will initially transfer my domain to them and leave the site where it is and then move the site, probably sometime over Christmas

Edited by deleted (Sat 15-Dec-12 22:15:55)

See PM I'm about to send.