General Discussion
  >> General Broadband Chatter


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)   Print Thread
Standard User superspeed
(member) Wed 09-Jan-13 22:54:05
Print Post

BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[link to this post]
 
Was not sure where to post this so will do here.

Most people know that when we order a fibre service, BT wholesale provides, a modem so we can use the fibre service. Nothing wrong in that, it's self.

My beef is with BT wholesale locking the modems; so you can't get anything usefully, line stats or anything from the modem.

In this day, it's quite ridiculous that BT wholesale should be so short sighted and restrictive. Many people want to see the line stats and monitor there line, without having to rely on information from our isp's. Many ispís are not always honest about it.

While it is possible to unlock the modem or buy a unlocked fibre modem, we should not have to do that. That is added costs to the consumer that should not be the case. How hard is it for flaming BT wholesale, to have unlocked modems? Not hard at all.

We never had this problem with ADSL.

It's of my opinion that, BT wholesale locks the modems and don't want you to know you line stats, deliberately. This is probably because, they want to keep their bandwidth and network charges down and so they can give the customer less than they should. That is also so they can juggle the wholesale network without to much trouble.

Time to pull your finger out BT wholesale and stop being so restrictive. I hope your reading this. Rant over smile

Superspeed note. I'm talking, ment to be about, openreach, not BT wholesale, as Mr Saffron explains in his post. smile

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Wed 09-Jan-13 23:20:16)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 09-Jan-13 22:58:35
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Actually back in 2000 and 2001 there was the same problem with ADSL and locked routers from BT Wholesale.

The locking now is done by Openreach, but a wires only product is on the way. First stage which was doing away with the interstitial plate took place earlier this year

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5213-openreach-in...

Sky uses a feedback mechanism to supply the sync speed information to their router.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Wed 09-Jan-13 22:59:52
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
The modem is supplied and fitted by Openreach, not BT Wholesale. Sky and TalkTalk have to use the same modem.

I expect during 2013 that the requirement to use the Openreach modem will be removed. ISPs already have the specification of connectability requirements for whatever modem or modem/router they then choose to recommend/sell to their customers.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User superspeed
(member) Wed 09-Jan-13 23:06:56
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
BT wholesale openreach, same thing really. That what I mean. smile

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 09-Jan-13 23:10:24
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
In this case a big difference, as openreach only worry about the bandwidth between cabinet and exchange hand over node, which is multiple GigE fibres. Where BT Wholesale, TalkTalk and Sky pick up the data at the GEA Handover is where worries about capacity the other conspiracy elements kicking

BT Wholesale charges around the £30 to £40 per month per Mbps of capacity a customer of theirs buys over the WBC network.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User superspeed
(member) Wed 09-Jan-13 23:10:57
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Well I never had that problem thank god but then I was still on dial-up at that time you state. smile

If it was me, I would of had the modems, not locked right from the start. smile Bit stupid doing the same thing again, if they did the same back in 2000- 2001.

Thanks for the link.

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Wed 09-Jan-13 23:21:39)

Standard User David_W
(experienced) Thu 10-Jan-13 00:15:00
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
"Fibre broadband" would have probably been better.

For the experienced customer, the locked FTTC modem is a pain - but I can see why BT Openreach (not Wholesale) have adopted this approach. There is no 'wires only' FTTC product at present - you can only order FTTC with the Openreach modem and the presentation of that service is the Ethernet port on the Openreach modem. I have seen a post from AAISP arguing this is a good thing, because it avoids the "BT Wholesale blames the customer's equipment" scenario that can make ADSL faults so trying.

BT Openreach view the modem as managed equipment, and the usual approach is to lock managed equipment to prevent tampering. Having worked in networking R&D, I am aware that the number of faults and outages due to tinkerers is depressing, so keeping people out of managed equipment in the interests of uptime and keeping the settings correct makes sense.

The End User for the FTTC product from Openreach is your ISP, not you, and ISP can get some data from the Openreach systems. Some ISPs, including my own, Zen, make the sync speeds and profile visible in their customer portal.

The vast majority of users couldn't care about extracting technical information from their DSL modem or router as they neither frequent forums such as this one nor have the expertise to interpret the data themselves.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-Jan-13 05:22:44
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
I agree its deliberate but not for the reasons you stated, I dont think BT are deliberatly capping sync speeds (unless they reducing transmit power at the cabinet deliberatly, is possible but hard to prove).

I think its more so they can fob off complaints easier, when someone is ringing up armed with error counts, snrm figures, sync speed figures etc. its harder for a support rep to deal with, now much simpler BT side when all people have is a speedtest result and maybe a ip profile.

eg. my line can be looked at in 2 different ways.

Without the unlocked modem I just have a 10% loss of speed on the downstream and am still above my estimated speed, no fault whatsoever. Can be blamed on internet congestion etc.

With the info from the unlocked modem my line has lost over 30% of its signal in both directions, very significant. But I am not supposed to have this information.

This will soon change anyway as I suspect modem/routers supplied from isp's wont be locked for the wires only installs.

Actually reading david's reply, makes a lot of sense as well. I can understand it for the purpose of locking settings.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 10-Jan-13 05:26:27)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-Jan-13 09:19:15
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Openreach don't pay anyone for bandwidth, they sell it, and have no interest in your line running slower.

It's their equipment, they elected to lock it down.

Annoying but not a big conspiracy. I've seen cable operators do much the same, and that's on services which cannot run at anything other than the maximum sync speed. It saves people calling in to their service provider with faults because they don't like the numbers they don't really understand on the modem.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Thu 10-Jan-13 09:31:40
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: Ignitionnet] [link to this post]
 
Agreed. I think that once wires only gets the green light the ownership of existing modems will get passed to the ISP's, if only to absolve Openreach from further replacement costs.

The experience of Openreach with locked down modems is bound to be passed on to their customers and I would be surprised if ISP's did not also continue this with the kit they will supply.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 10-Jan-13 09:36:36
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: systemx] [link to this post]
 
I differ.

We will get managed option, i.e. openreach look after modem and its firmware or
Wires only where the CP or consumer is responsible depending on the contract with the CP

Wiresonly might mean locked down modem/router combinations by the providers, which is not uncommon abroad with limited access to configure a few bits.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 10-Jan-13 09:38:36
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Lost 30% - crosstalk maybe?

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 10-Jan-13 10:05:09
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
So, Openreach decide to provide unlocked modems, then what? People will start complaining they cannot access the DSLAM configuration ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 10-Jan-13 10:07:59
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
Like people do for ADSLx?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Thu 10-Jan-13 10:20:02
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
I am aware that the number of faults and outages due to tinkerers is depressing, so keeping people out of managed equipment in the interests of uptime and keeping the settings correct makes sense.
Indeed, having done callouts to people that have plugged the RJ11 phone cable into the LAN port etc I think there's a discrepancy between the distribution of knowledge/ability in the population as a whole and that assumed by the OP.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User lockyatlrg
(fountain of knowledge) Thu 10-Jan-13 10:42:41
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Also the lack of decent VDSL mondem/routers from decent brands has a big part to play in this.

BT Infinity
ROUTER:-Netgear WNDR37AV
JDSU Stats
Attainable 94040D 34659U
Sync 79999D 20000U
Attenuation: 10.1 SNR: 16.2
Line Length 300meters
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-Jan-13 11:46:00
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I think its due to crosstalk yes, as to why so severe so early tho I dont know.

The QLN is way higher higher than I have seen on other lines, and its pretty much across the entire frequency. Only not affecting the U1 frequency. Snrm remains stable so I dont think its variable noise, crosstalk seems most likely.

When my attaiinable was higher at 90 instead of 73 the QLN was almost half of what it is now. I got no idea what my QLN was like at 110 attainable tho.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 10-Jan-13 11:51:08)

Standard User Ignitionnet
(knowledge is power) Thu 10-Jan-13 12:10:56
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MHC:
So, Openreach decide to provide unlocked modems, then what? People will start complaining they cannot access the DSLAM configuration ...


I'll await the posts to that effect once the wires only option goes live commercially.
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Thu 10-Jan-13 12:32:47
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: lockyatlrg] [link to this post]
 
Not a great deal about but my issue is with the crummy VDSL modems supplied by openreach.

At least with most third party routers/modems, they listen to customers requests and don't lock their routers.



A good third party one here http://www.billion.com/product/vdsl2/BiPAC8200N-wire...

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Thu 10-Jan-13 12:37:15
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
That's a bit silly. You could go on like that and say next, they will want access to the exchange.

If we can get our line stats from 99% of ADSL routers then why not fibre? It's something we have had now for many years but soon as fibre comes out, openreach provide a stupid locked modem.

We only need the line stats, nothing else.

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Thu 10-Jan-13 12:43:06
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
I think its more so they can fob off complaints easier, when someone is ringing up armed with error counts, snrm figures, sync speed figures etc. its harder for a support rep to deal with, now much simpler BT side when all people have is a speedtest result and maybe a ip profile.


That's the sort of things I am talking about. If my isp tells me one thing, I can then check my own modem/router stats and go armed back to my isp and argue my case.

At the moment it's not really possible and most likely how they want it to stay.

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Thu 10-Jan-13 12:52:01
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: David_W] [link to this post]
 
The vast majority of users couldn't care about extracting technical information from their DSL modem or router as they neither frequent forums such as this one nor have the expertise to interpret the data themselves.


While I see what your saying, having router/modem stats available is very important and needed. Many do come on here for help and even if they don't know anything about the stats, someone like roberto, would ask for your stats to help with diagnosing any issues.

Isp's don't have time or will not always be honest, to sit going through your router/modem stats and say why you may have slow speed or poor throughput.

So just because most don't use them, don't me we should all suffer by not having them available . smile

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Thu 10-Jan-13 12:52:54)

Standard User greenglide
(experienced) Thu 10-Jan-13 13:24:06
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Everyone seems to have forgotten about vectoring which BT are looking at providing on VDSL2 lines.

If all the modems on lines in a particular are not "vectoring friendly" then vectoring "does not work". This makes control over the devices connected and there configuation of some importance.

If you can get at the administration pages on the modem (not dificult) it is possible to turn of the remote configuration facility which will prevent firmware upgrades which "could" prevent the effective implementation of vectoring (we do not know whether the present modems supplied by OR are vectoring friendly).

BT Infinity 2 - IP profile 77 / 20 - super fast!
Previously BE Unlimited - 21,000 Download 1,200 Upload but then moved house - 6,500 Down, 1Mb/s up - gutted!
Ex <n>ildram , been to SKY MAX - 15,225 Download
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Thu 10-Jan-13 13:40:17
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
How many people ask for the ability to manage their own: fast/normal/stable profiles or noise margins? Quite a lot and when ISPs offer a choice they are inundated with requests. The profiles are controlled in the DSLAM - so it has already been demanded but never permitted.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-Jan-13 18:58:00
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: greenglide] [link to this post]
 
yeah this wires only thing allowing 3rd party modems coming soon actually can play havoc on any future vectoring. I hope this new policy doesnt mean openreach have abandoned the idea of vectoring.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 10-Jan-13 18:59:31
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MHC] [link to this post]
 
you think the BE policy of allowing direct control is a bad one?

ukonline also wasnt far off by tech support setting whatever the customer requested, I remember actually feeding manual settings to dan at easynet to get SRA working smile

Also there is a difference between allowing full admin access or just allowed to access stats, eg. virgin media modem's allow people to check their connection status, but they dont allow people admin access to the devices.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 10-Jan-13 19:02:39)

Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 10-Jan-13 20:48:39
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Chrysalis:
yeah this wires only thing allowing 3rd party modems coming soon actually can play havoc on any future vectoring. I hope this new policy doesnt mean openreach have abandoned the idea of vectoring.
Seeing as the specification given to CPs/ISPs for the kit they are allowed to fit/supply says it must be vectoring-capable ....

Quite what can be done about users who substitute their own unchecked kit is another question.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet Extra Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 11-Jan-13 12:41:17
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Superspeed,

A good third party one here http://www.billion.com/product/vdsl2/BiPAC8200N-wire...

Yeh, for quite some time I've wondered whether the Billion 8200N was a viable router-modem for VDSL2. Broadbandbuyer.co.uk (BBB) insist on calling it a router, though, not a combined router-modem. This left me confused about it. BBB say that, in VDSL2 operation, the 8200N is a router and must be connected to the BT Infinity modem. That seems to contradict both a comment from a customer review of it at BBB, as well as the experiences of one or two users writing about it on the Billion UK forums.

The 8200N appears to be a one-box solution to VDSL2 connectivity, but I see that Billion has also recently brought out a modem-only VDSL2 product - the 8200M. This suggests that if you already own, say, a 7800N, you could connect it via EWAN to an 8200M and happily run VDSL2. This would be useful for some sort of future "two-wire" Openreach option.

Under a two-wire option you could also use just an 8200N, as you've stated. Indeed, it seems that some users of VDSL2 who are dissatisfied with various aspects of the Openreach modem are not prepared to hang around and are already using the 8200N in its place, as a one-box setup.

As yet, none of these users have said whether, with the 8200N or the 8200M, they're able to get a full set of line stats from the modem. I've presumed also that tweaking of the VDSL line will be prevented in these and any other VDSL2 products that eventually come on to the market - which I suppose is sensible.
Standard User Chrysalis
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 11-Jan-13 13:13:52
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
is this a HR fault?

had a long call and the vdsl dropped.

Plugged in the HG again to get live stats and I see the stats are down a couple mbit so now 69mbit sync.

But here is what I suspect the HR with, I lift up the reciever on the phone and watch the modem stats, the downstream and upstream snrm start dropping at a gradual pace with the upstream faster. when the upstream got down to 4.5db I hung up the phone and it jumped back up to 7db.

BT Infinity 2 Since Dec 2012 - Estimate 65.9/20 - Attainable peak 110/36 - Current Sync 71/20
Standard User greenglide
(experienced) Fri 11-Jan-13 13:30:27
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
The Billion 8200N is a "full feature" VDSL Modem/router so does provide a "one box" solution for FTTC lines.

However it appears to only have 100BaseT wired ethernet rather than gigabit ethernet.

The routing throughput may be an issue - the 7800n "just" manages to handle the 80Mb/s of a current FTTC line when connected to the BT OR modem.

BT Infinity 2 - IP profile 77 / 20 - super fast!
Previously BE Unlimited - 21,000 Download 1,200 Upload but then moved house - 6,500 Down, 1Mb/s up - gutted!
Ex <n>ildram , been to SKY MAX - 15,225 Download
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Fri 11-Jan-13 13:39:37
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: Chrysalis] [link to this post]
 
Could be a HR fault

With the way the upstream and downstream are spread out on VDSL watching the bin plot change over time may be more useful than just the single figure

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User systemx
(experienced) Fri 11-Jan-13 13:42:22
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
The reason that Broadbandbuyer will not official say that the 8200n can be used without an Openreach modem may be that the T&Cs for using a FTTC service require the use of an Openreach modem, so Broadbuyer will not advise their customers to to go against this.
Standard User meditator
(fountain of knowledge) Fri 11-Jan-13 14:39:33
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: greenglide] [link to this post]
 
Ugh, 100BaseT?

Which arrived on the market first - the 7800N or the 8200N? I currently use a 7800 on an all-copper ADSL line and my Ethernet (wired) runs at a nominal 1G bps connectivity, so certainly the 7800 is designed to be capable of 1G bps. If the 82 came after the 78 one would have thought the 82 would have been kitted out with 1000BaseT.

Bear in mind that with FTTC, the fastest effective speed at which the VDSL line will operate will more than likely be down to the length and quality of the copper pair between the user and the street cabinet. In some cases that stretch of line may not be able to support anything in excess of 100M bps and, if so, a sub-1G bps Ethernet connection would be neither here nor there.
Moderator billford
(moderator) Fri 11-Jan-13 14:43:03
Print Post

Re: BT wholesale locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: meditator] [link to this post]
 
The 7800N has gigabit LAN ports, but the WAN port is only 10/100. As is the Ethernet port on the BT modem.

Bill
[email protected] __________________Planes and Boats and ... __________________BQMs: IPv4 IPv6
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Sun 13-Jan-13 19:18:30
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Is it possible that, someone from TB could contact openreach and ask them why they feel the need to lock modems? Also what they are going to do about, unlocking them for future use.


They don't even have a basic correspondence email to email them with. crazy Need to have some stupid account with them. http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/loadReason.do

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Sun 13-Jan-13 19:19:49)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Sun 13-Jan-13 20:16:52
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Why?

Wires only is on their timeline and covered in our news some time ago.

As for why they lock, in previous discussions with them it has been

1. Engineering so they can control and learn how VDSL2 operates
2. This then makes it easier to feed back into ANFP for future profile updates
3. Reduced need for supporting multiple VDSL2 modems
4. Commonality of interface between FTTC and FTTP products is a very useful thing for the retail providers

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Mon 14-Jan-13 15:35:14
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Because I want an official statement from openreach themselves. Most of them seem to be a pretty poor excuse to lock a modem, even more so not providing line stats.

I see this today but as you seem so say, this full wires only probably won't happen.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5656-trial-to-let...

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Mon 14-Jan-13 15:36:20)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Mon 14-Jan-13 16:31:44
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
It will only happen when the communications providers request it, so best to get them to ask why, as those who pay Openreach will have more influence.

My last conversation in person with Openreach on this was last summer.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Mon 14-Jan-13 16:48:27
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Have you got a car, with a modern computerised engine management system?

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User techguy
(committed) Mon 14-Jan-13 17:40:03
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
There is an upside to this.

It's my understanding that it counts as line plant so if it goes bang or otherwise stops working they have to replace it dont they otherwise they are not providing the ISP with the service rented on your behalf.

In some ways it might have been better for DSL to be delivered this way too so that the end user is just responsible for a router to teminate an ethernet feed.

Less for you to worry about.

After all, unless you are really interested you don't go hunting for error correction and signal stats on a Sky or Virgin Media box do you?

Virgin (ADSL) => Namesco => Newnet => O2 => Plusnet => Zen => Newnet => Zen => Freeola => Vivaciti (using O2 Wholesale DSL) => Xilo (C&W Wholesale) => Xilo (O2 Wholesale)
Note: I don't lay turf for anyone. astro or otherwise, all views and opinions expressed are my own based on experience.
Standard User MHC
(sensei) Mon 14-Jan-13 18:05:38
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
That is a good one!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

M H C


taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
Standard User zyborg47
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 14-Jan-13 19:53:04
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
I am not on Fibre or ADSL and i got no control over what you would call the modem. it is a bit strange at first as with ADSL i could change SNR and get loads of info from the ADSl router.


The only info I can get now if I connect the computer directly to my modem, which is on the roof is power output, SNR, but can't change it, where the access point is located and a user number and that is it.

TBH it don't bother me as much as I thought it would, as long as I get the speed I want and reliability.

if i go to fibre at some point things may have changed by then, but to be honest i think i still prefer the separate modem router thing.

Adrian

Desktop machine now powered by windows 7 pro 64bit , laptop by ubuntu

ALLPAY Wireless broadband
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Tue 15-Jan-13 20:10:34
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
What's that got to do with having an unlocked fiber modem and for line stats to be shown?

You can get a mini computer to plug into cars that have a EMS for stats, diagnostics.

Second I would not buy I car without knowing what the max fixed speed would be. Thats not the same for fibre unfortunately.


You also check how fast a car can go before you buy and expect it to go as fast as your told. smile wink

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Standard User superspeed
(committed) Tue 15-Jan-13 20:15:55
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I'm not so sure about that. The isp is hardly going to say, Oi! I want my customers to have line stats and a unlocked modem. Lol
Isp's will just take what openreach are offering them and pay up, they won't question it.

Anyway at the end of the day, this unlocked modem and router stats thing, is common sense. Just a shame we have such a gutless regulator called offcon. wink

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test

Edited by superspeed (Tue 15-Jan-13 20:43:15)

Standard User superspeed
(committed) Tue 15-Jan-13 20:21:47
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: zyborg47] [link to this post]
 
You can still have a separate modem. It's just the modem provided by openreach is junk and don't give your your line stats, without unlocking it.

If you buy a 3rd party modem, it may give you the line stats but they are quite expensive for fibre at the moment. It would be cheaper to buy a combined router/modem if you wanted.

Plusnet Extra Fibre.
I don't use wireless and is disabled. Current Router = TL-R402M
Welcome to BT-Plusnet. laugh wink
http://s6.postimage.org/seoi8bcsh/BT_plusnet_logo_2_...

Old isp.
My Broadband Speed TestMy Broadband Speed Test
My Broadband Speed Test
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 15-Jan-13 20:52:39
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
Mini computer aka fritzbox 7390 to give you VDSL stats for diagnostics or one of the Openreach ones that pop up on ebay

Cost of hiring a track to test cars top speed and insurance for track driving - not many bother.

It took time for wires only ADSL to appear and the same for VDSL2

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Tue 15-Jan-13 21:46:30
Print Post

Re: BT Openreach locking Fibre modems is wrong


[re: superspeed] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by superspeed:
What's that got to do with having an unlocked fiber modem and for line stats to be shown?

You can get a mini computer to plug into cars that have a EMS for stats, diagnostics.
Err no!

Apart from the fact that a minicomputer is rather a large beastie by today's standards, (try googling it), the independent car maintenance firms are currently up in arms as they have to spend around £7000 per manufacturer for the software for their cars. So a specialist BMW of Merc non-franchised dealer - fine. A multi-manufacturer garage - no way.

My point being that you aren't upset by the unavailable diagnostics from the car.

Re the speeds of the car when tested or whatever - isn't that exactly the issue here? If your FTTC sings along perfectly at what looks like a reasonable speed, who needs diagnostics? When did you last have an ECG or one of the several scans now possible?

It's only when the car's speed is initially poor or suddenly drops you need to know. But you cannot interrogate the EMS.

Same difference.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.0/14.9Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | >> (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to