AOL SLOW STREAMING?

Hi,

Am having severe trouble with YouTube watching - slow, jittery videos.

At first I thought it was Flash 11 but I also found this:

aol video

Am with AOL. What I am experiencing is what I would imagine might happen if my broadband was narrowed down to little more than dial up capacity.

Early days and I don't understand a lot of what is out there - but I found a speed test on YouTube. The page compared my ISP to the average for my area (I don't know what criteria they use), the average was over 8 whilst my ISP came in at 4.83 for speed. That looks a bit bleak does it not?

There was a test video giving HTTP speed but this changed on the nano second and there was no average kbps streaming information so pretty useless for a lay person like me trying to work out what in goodness sake has gone wrong with my online videos. The kbps sequence went something like 0 (that's zero streaming, freeze), 263, 116, 504, 44, 0, 547, 11, 0, 8, 1175, 145, 200 ... The fact that the streaming can hit 1175 then fall away to 11 then zero makes me wonder.

Comments please!

Many thanks.

Please do this test also http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics and report the results...

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Please do this test also http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics and report the results...

Thanks - am no expert but it looks ominous?

Overall speed: 177 kbps

TV-HD: 3500
TV(1): 1500
TV(2): 800
TV(3): 500
Radio: 128

Status: Radio was the only status to recelve a tick, all the others were "n/a"

What do you think please?

Update:

There was another block of figures as follows:

Speed Test

Download Speed: 274 kbps

Streaming Speed 1: 233 kbps
Streaming Speed 2: 95 kbps
Streaming Speed 3: 203 kbps.

How does this look please?

Thanks.

Not good.

What modem do you have? Do you know how to log into it?

If yes there will be some connection statistics that will tell you about the connection

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Speed Test

Download Speed: 274 kbps

Streaming Speed 1: 233 kbps
Streaming Speed 2: 95 kbps
Streaming Speed 3: 203 kbps.

Unfortunately you're not going to do much with that other than play MP3 audio - as Mr Saffron says: we need to see your modem/router stats in order to check your line speeds etc.

Thanks. This is what I feared.

I have a Wireless ADSL Firewire Router - think I can access it ok - where will I find the stats please?

Wireless ADSL Firewire router means nothing to me and I thought I had heard of all the major brands.

Did you mean a Wireless ADSL Firewall router, in which case that is not specific enough, as different routers hide the statistics in different places. Turn the router over and there should be manufacturer name/model number on the label somewhere.

This may help http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php

"Firewire" - is it connected to the computer over IEEE 1394 (a.k.a firewire) ?

Netgear Wireless ADSL Firewire Router DG834G

Netgear Router pdf

Please help - even mp3 is stuttering now with the strangulated streaming

Thanks.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

I have a Wireless ADSL Firewire Router

It has a make and model #, doesn't it? Or did it fall off the back of a lorry?

http://192.168.0.1/setup.cgi?next_file=stattbl.htm should work for then.

Failing that follow guide at http://kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#32

Copy/paste the resulting information.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Netgear Wireless ADSL Firewire Router DG834G

See http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/frogstats.php#32

Thanks. The stats are here: Router Stats

What should I be looking for please?

Speedtests should be cominng in at around 17000 to 19000 Kbps. (The Downstream speed after you allow for protocol overheads)

Run the test at
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html
then post the results URL i..e the link that looks like http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html... after the test. The graphs can sometimes show if the problem is congestion.

If after a restart of the router, the Connection speed is still around the 21000 mark and the noise margin for downstream is in the range 3 to 6dB, then likely that any slow down is down to AOL. So it may be time to move provider.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Run the test at
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest.html
then post the results URL i..e the link that looks like http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.

Thanks - how do I start the test please - can see no 'start test' button on that page?

That test needs Adobe Flash Player. Have you it installed? That page should tell you you need it.

I'm a bit worried by the 2 dB Down NM. It is a bit on low side, particularly for AOL.

Look at the label on the underneath of the DG834G for a version (v) number. Then see if you can run: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... for your version and post full results.

Also can you see if this runs: http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ ? I think it shouldn't but it might. Just wanna know.

Are you doing these download and streaming speed tests wirelessly?

In reply to a post by 4M2:

Are you doing these download and streaming speed tests wirelessly?

No, this pc connects to the router by way of an Ethernet cable, thanks.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

That test needs Adobe Flash Player. Have you it installed? That page should tell you you need it.

I have got Adobe 11, but some browsers recognise it, whilst others don't. Net result chaos. My browsers are AOL, Google Chrome, IE9, FireFox. I am running Windows 7 Basic 32 bit.

OK thanks - I got it now

BroadBand Speed Test Results

What do you think please?

Abysmal downstream results for the connection speed

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Abysmal downstream results for the connection speed

Well that is actually good news - have been pulling my hair out over this issue and at last a light is being shone over it! Question is - what do I do please to improve my download streaming?

Many thanks.

Note the speeds shown by our testing show its bad for all sort of traffic.

If the noise margin is in the range 3 to 6dB and not dropping below 2 ever, then changing broadband provider would be best bet

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Note the speeds shown by our testing show its bad for all sort of traffic.

If the noise margin is in the range 3 to 6dB and not dropping below 2 ever, then changing broadband provider would be best bet

How do I check the noise margin please?

As you did here: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4222066-r...

Hi,
I had AOL for years, and put off moving despite frequent advise to move.

Eventually, I left to go to O2.

The move was very easy and painless (except getting the MAC from AOL).

Speeds doubled. Reliability was much better. Support was better. Even the O2 router was better.

I still use my AOL email - there's no problem with that really other than poor spam filters. But the point is, it doesn't have to be disruptive.

I'm now with Plusnet, since I had to leave O2 to get FTTC.

Honestly, do yourself a favour. Find another ISP. O2, Plusnet, BT, Sky, even TalkTalk.
In my experience, nothing could be worse than AOL.

Go on. Just do it.

Steve

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

As you did here: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4222066-r...

Thanks, knew I'd seen that parameter somewhere!

Mr Saffron said: "Note the speeds shown by our testing show its bad for all sort of traffic. If the noise margin is in the range 3 to 6dB and not dropping below 2 ever, then changing broadband provider would be best bet"

My router reading is Downstream 2db / Upstream 27db.

What is a good reading on average please - I have nothing to compare. Does Mr Saffron mean that a reading below 2 here would be a good thing for instance?

Also, I'd like to explain to AOL exactly why I am unhappy with their broadband.

Have a read of my Noise margin page. That explains what it is and does.

Moving to O2 has been suggested by a couple. In the past I would have also have recommended them, but no longer due to the imminent takeover by Sky.

Please can you post the URL of what samknows says about your exchange.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Does Mr Saffron mean that a reading below 2 here would be a good thing for instance?

No! Did you read this http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4222090-r... ? It should answer your Q. Would you mind trying to get the stats I asked?

Basically it works like this. The lower the NM the faster the speed but the more unstable the connection (&v.v.) So most ISPs try to set a Target NM that balances a reasonably fast speed with a fairly stable line. Many ISPs choose a default Target NM of 6 dB as this has been found to be stable for most lines, but lately some ISPs, particularly those based on BTw WBC (non-LLU), find 3 dB will hold stable many lines while giving them faster speeds.

I thought AOL was one of those with 6 dB Target NM. Hence my concern that yours is as low as 2dB.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Have a read of my Noise margin page. That explains what it is and does.

Moving to O2 has been suggested by a couple. In the past I would have also have recommended them, but no longer due to the imminent takeover by Sky.

Please can you post the URL of what samknows says about your exchange.

The exchange is Tulse Hill in London. the OLO is LSTUL. I have read your Noise Margin page but I am still not really sure what is right or wrong about my down of 2db / up of 27 db. Can you explain please?

Many thanks.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Would you mind trying to get the stats I asked?

I loaded all the stats I could find - apologies if I missed any - could you specify please?

Many thanks.

There's nothing wrong with the 27dB upstream .

As XRaySpeX says in a post he made while you were typing your reply to me, the downstream setting at sync time is 6dB for most ISPs, though most on BT Wholesale connections, (that's all except LLU ones), now find it can adjust automatically down to 3dB on very good lines.

Yours is probably LLU though. To check that, if you try the BT Wholesale Performance test, does it recognise your number and run? If it does, it isn't LLU, so please continue to the Further Diagnostics at the bottom of the results page. Then copy and paste the full contents of the text box holding the downstream result.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 19-Mar-13 00:56:56)

Did you read that post I last linked you to? Here it is again:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Look at the label on the underneath of the DG834G for a version (v) number. Then see if you can run: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... for your version and post full results.

Also can you see if this runs: http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ ? I think it shouldn't but it might. Just wanna know.

The BT test is now no use without carrying on to the Further Diagnostics, even if it runs - as you say .

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I thought AOL was one of those with 6 dB Target NM. Hence my concern that yours is as low as 2dB.

What is a 6 dB Target NM - NetGear tells me I have a Downstream of 2 db. Is Downstream the same as NM please?

Also, what is potentially wrong with a downstream of 2 db ?

Many thanks.

Wasn't my objective! Just to see if it runs Yea or Nay to confirm he is on LLU or not. As am suspicious of the 448K Up as didn't think AOL would do that.

EDIT: Yes, you are right! I was forgetting that its not until Further Diags that you enter your phone #.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 19-Mar-13 01:25:01)

Similarly with my overlapping suggestion of that test, but I have a nagging feeling that AOL LLU does have a 448kps upstream.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I thought AOL was one of those with 6 dB Target NM. Hence my concern that yours is as low as 2dB.

What is a 6 dB Target NM - NetGear tells me I have a Downstream of 2 db. Is Downstream the same as NM please?

Also, what is potentially wrong with a downstream of 2 db ?

Many thanks.

"Target NM (Noise Margin)" is the term often used to mean the setting applied by the ISP at the time you connect. That setting being explained in my page.

If AOL are setting it at 3dB, which we may find is possible if the BT Wholesale Test runs, then 2dB is fine as it won't have changed a lot. But if they are setting it to 6dB that means it is changing a lot after connection and that can sometimes but not often be because of a fault.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

What is a 6 dB Target NM - NetGear tells me I have a Downstream of 2 db. Is Downstream the same as NM please?

1st of all concentrate on the Downstream figures only for the mo' That's where your issues are.

One thing I omitted to say was that the ISP sets the Target NM at the moment that you sync with exchange. The NM then wanders about, slightly we hope, while the speed stays constant, until the next re-sync when it all kicks off again.

The Netgear says you have a Downstream Noise Margin (the intersection of the column and the row) of 2dB. It has wandered down to this value from either 6 (I believe for AOL) or 3 db since the last sync.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Also, what is potentially wrong with a downstream of 2 db ?

I repeat: the lower the NM the more unstable the line which means more prone to disconnect.

I don't think I can explain it any more clearly than that!

Yes, just remembered! No harm will be done! Facts trump speculation!

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There's nothing wrong with the 27dB upstream .

That's the first good bit of news I've received about streaming in the last 7 days.

As XRaySpeX says in a post he made while you were typing your reply to me, the downstream setting at sync time is 6dB for most ISPs, though most on BT Wholesale connections, (that's all except LLU ones), now find it can adjust automatically down to 3dB on very good lines.

Yours is probably LLU though. To check that, if you try the BT Wholesale Performance test, does it recognise your number and run? If it does, it isn't LLU, so please continue to the Further Diagnostics at the bottom of the results page. Then copy and paste the full contents of the text box holding the downstream result.

The initial test gave the following:

Download Speed (Mbps): 12.76
Upload Speed (Mbps): 0.34
Ping Latency (ms): 37.00

There were several attempts at Further Diagnostics but the BT page was having none of it.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Did you read that post I last linked you to? Here it is again:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Look at the label on the underneath of the DG834G for a version (v) number. Then see if you can run: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... for your version and post full results.

Also can you see if this runs: http://speedtest.btwholesale.com/ ? I think it shouldn't but it might. Just wanna know.

The version is v3. Am sorry - this diagnostic testing is now beyond what I can safely do without tying my router up in knots, I am also having severe difficultu in navigating the posts for this thread. :-|

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

There's nothing wrong with the 27dB upstream .

That's the first good bit of news I've received about streaming in the last 7 days.

No, it isn't! Streaming hardly uses upstream.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

There were several attempts at Further Diagnostics but the BT page was having none of it.

That's good! It proves you are on LLU and therefore it is most likely AOL's Target NM is 6dB and you have lost 4dB NM since last re-sync.

Now that BT Speedtest shows you have a reasonable Download Speed, please retry http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics and report the results (top block only).

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 19-Mar-13 02:05:06)

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Am sorry - this diagnostic testing is now beyond what I can safely do without tying my router up in knots,

The diagnostic testing on that Kitz page will not harm your router or even change it; it is just pulling out some figures stored in it.

Oh, well, we tried to help you.

"Target NM (Noise Margin)" is the term often used to mean the setting applied by the ISP at the time you connect. That setting being explained in my page.

If AOL are setting it at 3dB, which we may find is possible if the BT Wholesale Test runs, then 2dB is fine as it won't have changed a lot. But if they are setting it to 6dB that means it is changing a lot after connection and that can sometimes but not often be because of a fault.

BT Wholesale Test ran with thanks and the results were posted. The further diagnostics test would not run.

I do not understand how to run the 'debug' thingamy for the v3 router - there are too many stages to go through all at once, it will probably result in me scrambling NetGear - maybe I should come back to this later - I have done an awful lot of stats tests this evening, my head is starting to spin.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The Netgear says you have a Downstream Noise Margin (the intersection of the column and the row) of 2dB. It has wandered down to this value from either 6 (I believe for AOL) or 3 db since the last sync.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Also, what is potentially wrong with a downstream of 2 db ?

I repeat: the lower the NM the more unstable the line which means more prone to disconnect.

Thanks - so this could be an issue. How can I ascertain the DNM for AOL please? If we have that figure - in light of the thread - it will function as a control.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

How can I ascertain the DNM for AOL please?

Really only by asking them or searching this forum for other AOL users' stats.

You might catch it if you take the router stats immediately after rebooting router.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Now that BT Speedtest shows you have a reasonable Download Speed, please retry http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/diagnostics and report the results (top block only).

There is something very odd going on here.

BBC Speed Test

Here is the test of 24 hours ago

BBC Test 18 March

We had a power cut here 7 days ago - the appalling online video behaviour dates back to that evening.

That's vastly better

Now try your streaming - it should be improved.

TBB Speedtest should now show better results.

Looks like it's nowt to do with AOL, but a by-product of that power cut, which someone has now completely fixed.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

We had a power cut here 7 days ago - the appalling online video behaviour dates back to that evening.

?
I would have thought that was a fairly obvious thing to tell us 25 hours previously, in this post . All the way along you have known what the initial cause was.

So have the Noise margin figures as reported by the modem now improved?

If yes, then the inference is that the power issue was causing lots of radio interference and slowing you down. If we had known about the power event, then we would have focussed on the noise margin issue much sooner.

Though it is possible that the time of the test which is in the small hours, may mean AOL was running smoothly as most people are asleep.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Though it is possible that the time of the test which is in the small hours, may mean AOL was running smoothly as most people are asleep.

Though the previous BBC test was also run in the same wee small hours and showed abysmal speeds.

It is possible power cut extended to exchange, preceded by a power surge, and fried some components, which engs have only now got round to fixing?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

We had a power cut here 7 days ago - the appalling online video behaviour dates back to that evening.

?
I would have thought that was a fairly obvious thing to tell us 25 hours previously, in this post . All the way along you have known what the initial cause was.

Why should I know that a power cut would affect the downloading on online videos please?

Many thanks.

Love to hear what components it might have fried to still allow some connectivity? While still maintaining a decent DSL signal.

If the noise margin after switch the router off and on again is back to a more standard 6dB then I think a noise source has vanished.

We are playing a second guessing game here though.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

That's vastly better

Now try your streaming - it should be improved.

TBB Speedtest should now show better results.

Looks like it's nowt to do with AOL, but a by-product of that power cut, which someone has now completely fixed.

Yes thanks - the videos are back to normal - the power cur must have upset (?) the router and switching it off and on again has reset it. Thanks to whoever - I cannot easily track back due to this window - it was who suggested the BT diagnostic - without that I'd be on the phone today trying to cancel my AOL account and no doubt heated exchanges up and down the phone line

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

the power cur must have upset (?) the router and switching it off and on again has reset it.

You mean this is 1st time you rebooted router since power cut? That is always 1st thing to try when you have connection issues.

Anyway, glad you are back up & running .

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

Why should I know that a power cut would affect the downloading on online videos please?

If the slow video downloading started after the power cut, with no intervening good downloading, surely it would occur to most people the two may be related?

Do you have central heating on a time clock? If you find it wrong after a power cut, does the time difference correspond with the length of the power cut? (Which happens to be how I determine the length of power cuts here).

I think more likely what had occurred to me but I didn't get round to posting the thought - that maybe AOL have some sort of internal DLM that threw a wobbly as a result of what went on at his end, and it has now self-corrected as it should.

In reply to a post by kr236rk:

I cannot easily track back due to this window

I think you must be viewing this in Threaded mode; you should find it easier in Flat mode.

Thanks to all - I just discovered a film on the Tube by accident that I didn't realise someone had uploaded ... so I pressed play ... 2 hours 34 minutes later and not a hiccup. Yesterday I couldn't watch a video for 2 minutes.

To fair to myself, I did raise the issue of the power cut when it was fresh in my mind ... something like well over a week ago now - at another forum - they dismissed it and had me uninstalling and reinstalling Adobe Flash, that went on for days.

So apologies, if I'd come here first the issue would obviously have been dealt with successfully - I had almost given up on 'normal' online videos ... and I just watched a full length movie

Thanks again!

Sorry I got a bit sharp earlier, but I'm glad you are sorted.

Just out of interest, what are the router stats now? We've only ever seen 1 snapshot: http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4222066-r...

Do you mean the router stats please?

Thanks.

Eh? Wasn't that what I said?