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Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Thu 11-Apr-13 12:10:05
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Poor Line Stats?


[link to this post]
 
Could someone check if these stats are Ok? I know the NM is high (12). This happened a couple of weeks ago when I had around 40 LOS defects within the space of around 10 minutes (Router was plugged into master socket, NM was 9). The router has now been plugged into the test socket for over a week now and I keep getting LOS Defects (Near End Indicator) every couple of days. Are there a lot of FEC Corrections/Error Seconds for the time connected. Should the NM come down if I am connected constantly for 5+ days?

(EE Broadband with Brightbox Router)


Time Connected: 1 day 17:39:59

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1219 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7789 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.9 dB 11.3 dB
Line Attenuation 20.9 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.6 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 55725 3684
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 18 732
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 29 747
Error Seconds 15 500
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Thu 11-Apr-13 12:24:10
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
It does not look horrendous.

Only way is to wait and see if the target margin is reduced by the automatic systems in time.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 11-Apr-13 12:57:31
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
You could be getting 11 Meg @ 6dB Target NM (currently 12dB). Just wait and hope for NM to reduce and speed to increase and, maybe, go onto Fast Path.

Error rates look OK.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC


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Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Thu 11-Apr-13 12:57:36
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
Auto-lowering of the noise margin by the DLM needs 10-14 days stability. It normally re-syncs when it does it.

That tends to be overnight, so a single daylight hours re-sync should gain a bit more speed as well.

If it doesn't happen by Day 15, try a daylight re-sync anyway. If that fails you may need to contact support to get it reset.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Thu 11-Apr-13 17:32:05
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
And like clockwork here are my stats now. Started getting LOS after LOS; had to turn off the router in the end and turned it back on after about an hour:

Time Connected: 02:30:50
Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1173 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7611 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 7.0 dB 12.4 dB
Line Attenuation 20.9 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.6 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 17174 578
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 17 13
Loss of Signal Defect 5 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 103 3
Error Seconds 66 37
Statistics
Received Cells 3714673
Transmitted Cells 364183
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Fri 12-Apr-13 09:00:07
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
Time Connected: 02:30:50
Error Seconds 66 37

bit higher than desirable, does it do better in ADSL2 mode G992.3 (in case it's some of the higher frequencies that are kicking it out)

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 12-Apr-13 15:22:02
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
What rate of ES do you reckon as desirable?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User yarwell
(sensei) Fri 12-Apr-13 16:11:22
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
zero is "desirable" smile

A few an hour wouldn't worry me, hundreds might.

--

Phil

MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.

MaxDSL diagnostics
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Fri 12-Apr-13 16:19:23
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: yarwell] [link to this post]
 
Router has now had another 7 LOS Defects
Time Connected: 07:27:48
Downstream Rate: 7695kbps
(Time since stats have been collected ~24 hours)

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 789 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7695 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 9.4 dB 11.6 dB
Line Attenuation 21.0 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 25016 610
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 31 78
Loss of Signal Defect 12 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 676 103
Error Seconds 155 186
Statistics
Received Cells 602856
Transmitted Cells 157570
Standard User RobertoS
(sensei) Fri 12-Apr-13 21:47:50
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
Ongoing LOS is a fault somewhere. Where, is a different question.

My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk | Domains,website and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - Plusnet UnLim Fibre (FTTC). Sync ~ 54.2/15.2Mbps @ 600m. - BQM

"Where talent is a dwarf, self-esteem is a giant." - Jean-Antoine Petit-Senn.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Allergy information: This post was manufactured in an environment where nuts are present. It may include traces of understatement, litotes and humour.
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Tue 16-Apr-13 20:25:53
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
Just an update from the last stat post. Haven't had any LOS Defects for 4 days now (touchwood). Seems DLM jacking up my upstream NM to 9db has done the trick.

Time Connected: 4 days 11:33:05
Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 789 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7695 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 9.5 dB 11.6 dB
Line Attenuation 21.0 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 99719 733
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 100 144
Loss of Signal Defect 12 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 988 214
Error Seconds 182 225
Statistics
Received Cells 36393690
Transmitted Cells 70301942
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Tue 16-Apr-13 21:32:31
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
You are way off base!
In reply to a post by sully1311:
Seems DLM jacking up my upstream NM to 9db has done the trick.
What trick? All it's done is reduce your Up sync. The LoS you had were Near End, i.e. Downstream.

You need your Down NM to reduce, not the Up NM.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Wed 17-Apr-13 00:36:19
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
You are way off base!
In reply to a post by sully1311:
Seems DLM jacking up my upstream NM to 9db has done the trick.
What trick? All it's done is reduce your Up sync. The LoS you had were Near End, i.e. Downstream.

You need your Down NM to reduce, not the Up NM.


I've read in other places that it is the other way round?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 17-Apr-13 08:29:48
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
As far as router is concerned Near End is router itself. It can only see the errors in the packets it receives, i.e. Downstream; it can't see errors in packets received by exchange, i.e. Upstream.

As a simple experiment, turn router OFF/ON and look at stats immediately upon connection. You'll see the Near End errors are 0 but the Far End ones remain cuz they are counted & held at exchange.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Wed 17-Apr-13 17:53:04
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
As far as router is concerned Near End is router itself. It can only see the errors in the packets it receives, i.e. Downstream; it can't see errors in packets received by exchange, i.e. Upstream.

As a simple experiment, turn router OFF/ON and look at stats immediately upon connection. You'll see the Near End errors are 0 but the Far End ones remain cuz they are counted & held at exchange.


Fair enough. I know you know a LOT more than me!

If the line does stay stable for long enough for the DLM to lower the NM will it lower it to 9 and then have to wait for another 2 weeks of stability or will it go straight to the target of 6?
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 17-Apr-13 17:56:48
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
My line which went through this process speed back up in steps, so would expect the same for your line.

Andrew Ferguson, [email protected]
www.thinkbroadband.com - formerly known as ADSLguide.org.uk
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Thu 18-Apr-13 18:59:20
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
Just had another barrage of LOS Defects so turned the router off. Then it looked like the NM had been jacked up to 12 Upstream and 15 Downstream as I had about ~300kbps and ~5000kbps respectively, but have since reset it and its back to 9 and 12:

Time Connected: 00:03:32
Downstream Rate: 7611kbps
Upstream Rate: 713kbps

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 713 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7611 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 9.1 dB 10.3 dB
Line Attenuation 21.1 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 1019 109
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 33 9
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 781 12
Error Seconds 11 7
Statistics
Received Cells 67988
Transmitted Cells 24260

Edited by sully1311 (Thu 18-Apr-13 19:06:17)

Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Mon 22-Apr-13 21:44:42
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
So I had 3 LOS defects just over 24 hours ago. Now my connection has changed from Interleaved to Fast Path.

Time Connected: 1 day 02:32:47
Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1131 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7584 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 8.0 dB 10.9 dB
Line Attenuation 21.2 dB 36.0 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.9 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 1544 468
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 3 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 955 291
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 841 645
Statistics
Received Cells 69179600
Transmitted Cells 9686382
Standard User sully1311
(newbie) Fri 26-Apr-13 22:50:07
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
Right, sometimes but not everytime there is a LOS defect when the landline is in use. What is this problem?
Standard User Zarjaz
(knowledge is power) Sat 27-Apr-13 09:00:22
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: sully1311] [link to this post]
 
If still in the test socket, and I presume you have done the obvious and swapped out the filter, then ...

I'd suggest an `HR' fault somewhere, or maybe duff exchange equipment.

The fun you will have now, is getting EE to accept that there is an issue and to send out an SFI to take a look.

Standard User boyrobot
(newbie) Mon 14-Jul-14 04:24:33
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: Zarjaz] [link to this post]
 
Apologies for waking up this thread but the information seems fairly relevant to what I'm experiencing with my EE Brightbox.

The Interleaved Path FEC Correction and CRC Error stats are constantly increasing.

My US and DS Noise Margin values are 5.1 and 3.0dB respectively. Having looked up the term "Noise Margin" and seeing that it's used as a synonym of SNR on most routers, I would assume that the low Noise Margin I am seeing is due to a high level of noise on the line.

Instead in this thread, people are suggesting that the Noise Margin should drop as the line remains stable for a sustained period of time.

I also noticed that my router switched to 7173kbps (from about 2048kbps) recently. Considering that my line is showing so many errors and I'm seeing slowness, why is the speed not being dropped?

Also I see that my ADSL mode is ADSL 2+. Do you think that my line may have been switched to ADSL 2+ recently?
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 14-Jul-14 18:19:31
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: boyrobot] [link to this post]
 
Error counts do constantly increase. The Q is how quickly? Plse post your full router ADSL Stats + Time Connected from top Status page.

A 3dB NM (a synonym for SNRM) is the standard NM for a good line. A low value indicates that it does not need much margin to overcome noise.

If you were on 2048K Sync you were probably being capped and now are not.

What exchange are you connected to?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User boyrobot
(newbie) Mon 14-Jul-14 20:50:33
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Here are the stats. I am trying to figure out why the connection keeps getting lost.

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 00:24:07
Downstream Rate: 7051kbps
Upstream Rate: 834kbps

ADSL STATUS

This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 834 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7051 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 9.8 dB 3.1 dB
Line Attenuation 23.2 dB 42.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction NA NA
Interleaved Path FEC Correction 44114 0
Fast Path CRC Error NA NA
Interleaved Path CRC Error 17 0
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR NA NA
Interleaved Path HEC Error 87 0
Error Seconds 13 1
Statistics
Received Cells 759493
Transmitted Cells 150921
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Mon 14-Jul-14 21:26:59
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Re: Poor Line Stats?


[re: boyrobot] [link to this post]
 
Stats are good but slightly, 1 Meg, slow.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
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