BT Line to house

Hey All,

A bit of advice if i may. My new (well new to me) house is undergoing a full renovation. The BT connection point in the hall is so old, i cant even find a picture of it on the net!!

What i want to do is move this box into a cupboard (about 3m run of cable) so its out of sight etc. I need to do it soon as i am having laminate flooring laid this weekend!

If i join the existing BT cable to the length of cable i intend to run, how much degradation can i expect?

When the house is habitable, i will get the line live and order broadband. I currently have a Fibre Optic cabinet about 75mtrs from where the current connection point is.

I know technically its a BT job, but its easy enough to do - i am more worried about the drop in broadband performance by creating a joint!

Cheers

unless you make a complete pigs ear of it, there should be no noticeable difference.

Do it all to BT spec and nobody will know. This assumes you only have one socket!

1) if using external cabling

Buy the following if doing it all external

1) http://bit.ly/15LiJ53

2) You can cut the cable outside and then use this external box and jelly crimps to connect to the new cabling. The jelly crimps make the cable sealed.
http://bit.ly/1cGRHiP

3) If running the cable around the outside wall (which I advise) use this cabling
For 5m http://bit.ly/15Lhi6z
10m http://bit.ly/15LhmTU
20m http://bit.ly/15LhrqE

Bear in mind that BT do not run much internal cabling & if you use your own junctions cabling etc they will be aware it's not to BT spec.

Cut the external cabling outside
Use the external jelly crimps and the bt case
Extend the dropwire using the external cabling
Drill a hole on the wall where you want the master
Put the external cabling through the hole directly into the master on the other side of the wall.



If extending indoors never use the outdoor wiring. If it burns its toxic so isn't allowed indoors

Buy the following for indoors

1) http://bit.ly/15LiJ53

2) Indoor cabling
5m http://bit.ly/15LhF15
10m http://bit.ly/15LhLWi
20m http://bit.ly/15LhPp0

3) A junction box http://bit.ly/15Lihnh

Cut the external wiring where it comes into the property, so there's as little external wiring indoors as possible.
Connect this external wiring to the junction box screw terminals
Connect your new white internal wiring to the idc terminals of the junction box
Connect the white cabling other end to the master in cupboard

Easy enough All as good as BT would do.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 06-Aug-13 20:06:22)

In your position I would do the following though.
Assuming the phone lines not in use.
I would renovate. Cut the dropwire outside. Bin the internal phone lines and cabling.

I would then order a new line install. You can get this free with BT if you go into a contract, sky charge about £10.

As there's no sockets or wiring inside then BT would install a new master wherever you want it (as long as it's near an external wall). Then it's all done right. Just make sure you order a new line install.

If you are in contract already it could be costly so check! New customers get a new line install fairly cheap though.

If BT ask, the wire was already cut when you moved in. Bit naughty I know.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 06-Aug-13 20:20:51)

Many thanks chaps, Some great advice there.

I am like the idea pleading ignorance and cutting the drop wire outside the house.

The only problem i foresee is the existing phone line to my knowledge is still live - I can call the previous owners number and it rings - but there is no phone connected so only assuming its live.

If i was to cut it outside, call BT and say i would like a phone line and plead ignorance to one previously being there would i be liable for charges as they would know one is already at the property from their records?

Failing that i am more than happy to jelly bean the connection and bring it into the cupboard where i would like it situated.

The only problem i foresee is the existing phone line to my knowledge is still live - I can call the previous owners number and it rings - but there is no phone connected so only assuming its live.

You can still cut it, the voltage is only high when someones ringing the line.

If i was to cut it outside, call BT and say i would like a phone line and plead ignorance to one previously being there would i be liable for charges as they would know one is already at the property from their records?

If you get a new line install, it's normally £130, although if you sign up with BT they waiver the charge if you enter a contract with them for phone & Broadband. Likewise Sky will install a new line for £9 if you choose their phone and broadband. All you have to do is ring the ISP and say, I need to get a new line installed, the previous owners have cut the drop wire outside, I have no phone sockets inside. They will then get BT openreach out as part of the install who will provide the new socket where you want it, they should also be able to activate you phone and broadband on this date too.

You can even do it online.

If you go here http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broad...
Hover over the 'connection included.' It says if you need a new line you wont pay a penny.

If you then click start your order, then select No, I don't have a working phone number and I'd like a new BT line
It will then check your line for a while.
It will then say 'Existing phone line at this address' if they think there's an existing line.
Select No - I want a new line installed at this address
If you have ordered a broadband and phone package the new line is free!

I've had numerous new line installs myself. I prefer to get a new line than using the old infrastructure, especially where there's no master socket or potential star wiring.

You wont get billed if you order a new line like this. They have no record of who did it previously.
It's the easiest and cheapest way to get everything up to date and get the master located where you want it. Costing you zilch.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 06-Aug-13 21:31:36)

A new WLR line should be a lot less than £130 these days

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/5651-openreach-an...

Excellent. Ill go with cutting the old and order a full package of phone and Fibre BB in the coming weeks when all the renovations are done.

Cheers for the replies guys.

I don't like the sound of this at all.

what are your concerns mate?

the best prices for a new line are where there's dial tone on an existing installation - not sure if this is the case. If you cut through BT's wiring it might increase the charge you face for the connection, if you can coil it back out of the way it might be better, an FTTC install can reposition the master for you anyway.

In reply to a post by akwilliams:

Excellent. Ill go with cutting the old and order a full package of phone and Fibre BB in the coming weeks when all the renovations are done.

Cheers for the replies guys.

So long as you understand that Openreach may charge for line repairs after you have cut it, and you include this in the cost of renovations budget, then go ahead.
If Openreach do not charge that's a bonus.

So long as you understand that Openreach may charge for line repairs after you have cut it, and you include this in the cost of renovations budget, then go ahead.
If Openreach do not charge that's a bonus.


Which is a question i did raise - as the new occupant am i responsible for the existing BT dropwire etc? If they turn up and discover its cut who is liable - as i am requesting a new line install - not a repair or reporting a fault.

If part of the Fibre Optic install incorporates moving of the Master Socket, then that's even better.

When i moved in here , there was a diconnected line outside, no master socket in the place, the most they will charge is what i new line costs normally, if that is included in a new telephony or telephony and broadband contract then you wont pay a seperate fee,

cut the line as near to the pole as you can,that should ensure you get a new drop wire from the pole , as it then be too short, no point in doing half a job, But depending on how old the cable is, it could be of better quality than what they will replace it with

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 07-Aug-13 09:17:50)

You have a legal responsibility not to damage or interfere with BTs property. That includes moving a master, cutting an incoming or drop wire.

BT will know to within a day or two when the wire was actually cut and te technicians are not blind - they will know when a customer has done something to the circuit.

A new line install covers the wiring from the pole across the road into the household.
If it's ordered as a new line as I suggested there cannot be extra fees.

I've done this myself without any issues in a property which was star wired. The dropwire came inside but didn't reappear inside, instead it was hidden in the plaster and there was no obvious place where it came out. So it was impossible to identify the master & as there were 3 masters installed & 5 other sockets I just couldn't be bothered diagnosing it all.

I just chopped the cabling outside and removed the sockets internally. I ordered a new line. When BT came out they didn't bat an eye lid. I told them it was like that when I moved in. They just replaced the whole drop cable and started a fresh.

Around 50% of the properties I've dealt with have had a damaged dropwire due to building works / it being cut outside. Especially those in virginmedia areas. People with virgin seem to love cutting away BTs wires. Don't blame them, if they're never going to use BTs line.

I'm not saying it's morally right to do this but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

I've also relocated my own master, as I wanted my router more centrally when I got FTTC and discovered the poor wireless coverage limited the speeds. Nobody batted an eye lid when I had a fault on that line.
I guess the difference is I know what I'm doing vs the average Joe Bloggs.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 07-Aug-13 10:50:48)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

A new line install covers the wiring from the pole across the road into the household.
If it's ordered as a new line as I suggested there cannot be extra fees.

I've done this myself without any issues in a property which was star wired. The dropwire came inside but didn't reappear inside, instead it was hidden in the plaster and there was no obvious place where it came out. So it was impossible to identify the master & as there were 3 masters installed & 5 other sockets I just couldn't be bothered diagnosing it all.

I just chopped the cabling outside and removed the sockets internally. I ordered a new line. When BT came out they didn't bat an eye lid. I told them it was like that when I moved in. They just replaced the whole drop cable and started a fresh.

Yes I understand and under similar circumstances I may have done the same myself, but had Openreach chosen to charge as I would have damaged their network I would not have a leg to stand on.

Edited by deleted (Wed 07-Aug-13 10:56:58)

Yes I understand and under similar circumstances I may have done the same myself, but had Openreach chosen to charge as I would have damaged their network I would not have a leg to stand on.

Agreed, I suppose it's a risk if they prove the line was damaged by them. My official advise is to keep the socket where it is (it can't be that big of an eye sore) and run an longer RJ11 cable to the router. Seems much simpler & much less to go wrong / mess with.

With the Fibre install, an engineer will visit and he will have to upgrade the master socket to a current one.

If you order a home wiring solution during the fibre order, then openreach will come out and either

1) Relocate the master (they don't have to do this, so it's upto the engineer on the day) or
2) Much more likely, keep the master where it is, upgrade it to a new style master, fit the fibre faceplate, from the current master run an extension to where you want the modem and router.

I would personally opt for this. I wouldn't bother moving the master yourself or fiddling around etc. It's a lot of hassle and really how much of an eye sore can it be where it currently is?

In my opinion it's just not worth the hassle & faffing around. Just leave it as it stands and then order fibre optic with a home wiring solution. Hopefully the engineer will relocate the socket but if not, your modem and router will be where you want it anyways.

If you are set in stone on moving the master etc, I've told you how to do it and the options I would take. Clearly openreach could question why the cables cut etc. Upto you really where you go with it.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 07-Aug-13 11:04:15)

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

A new line install covers the wiring from the pole across the road into the household.
If it's ordered as a new line as I suggested there cannot be extra fees.

There are two levels of charge depending how much is present already. If there's a line in place with dial tone it's free, if it requires a line running or other work there's a charge although various special offers and discounts may cancel that out.

While one could argue that the "existing line" should be brought into service for free, it's hard to argue that if you've chopped it off.

There are two levels of charge depending how much is present already. If there's a line in place with dial tone it's free

In this case you would not be ordering as a new line, you would order a package on the existing line when going through the order process. I have advised to order a new line, yes this should normally be quite expensive but I pointed them to the deals which make it free.

if it requires a line running or other work there's a charge although various special offers and discounts may cancel that out.

Yes, BT will install a new line for free if you take their broadband & phone and Sky for £9. This is even in a worst case scenario ie no line whatsoever exists. So you cannot get worse than this.

While one could argue that the "existing line" should be brought into service for free, it's hard to argue that if you've chopped it off.

It's often extremely difficult to get an ISP to come out and update the existing line if it's performing okay, without dropouts and no fuzziness on the landline. Even if the speeds are suffering.

Also if it's chopped off and you order a new line. Yes the new line would normally be around £100 - £130, but if you choose the BT broadband and Phone you get this new line discounted.

I am not suggesting to order it as an existing line install.
I am saying order it as a new line, which is the same as ordering where there is absolutely no cabling to the house whatsoever. So anything that is there is a bonus. This is normally costly but is free if you go down the routes I advised.

As they want BT infinity anyway, it works quite nicely.

I am not suggesting to order it as an existing line install.

You don't get the option - you order a line. They supply it how they see fit.

If you have a line already you can order an extra line, but again you have no influence over how it is supplied (and it's not covered by the USO or some of the special offers).

You don't get the option - you order a line. They supply it how they see fit.

You can choose to have it installed as a new line.
http://s12.postimg.org/f3jxf2v25/Screen_Shot_2013_08...

When you choose the new line option, as long as you have ordered phone and BB they waiver the £130 charge.

If you have a line already you can order an extra line, but again you have no influence over how it is supplied (and it's not covered by the USO or some of the special offers).

Universal service obligation isn't really related to this.

If you order a new line, it doesn't matter what the existing line is like. You have ordered a new one. If BT choose to use an existing line that's currently unused to make the job easier, that's their choice, but the entire new line is within the £130 connection charge which is free if you take phone & BB on BT and order a new line at the same time.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Wed 07-Aug-13 12:16:12)

The USO can be relevant, in that if you have an active line already they can say no to providing another.

If they're running an offer that covers the £130 where a line already exists than as you say you're in the clear. You know in advance anyway as " BT will advise of a connection charge at the time the order is placed however this will be confirmed after checks have been carried out against the details of your property, to ascertain the condition of the wiring and sockets. "

If there's a line or pairs there and not in use they would be used, I'm pretty sure.

Not if the existing line is several meters too short as a result of it being cut /stolen by persons unknown then they would have to install a new 3-4 pair drop cable from the pole,But normally they would just use another pair within the same cable,and instal the master for the second line next to the existing one,

Edited by tommy45 (Wed 07-Aug-13 17:18:29)