These things are sent to torment us:

On the 8th July I ordered a new BT Converse 2300 from the BT Shop using a shareholder offer. The phone duly arrived I plugged it in to my hall socket and it worked. Subsequently I replaced the telephone socket as I wanted to have a double recessed socket.

I also have a DECT phone system connected to a bedroom socket. Both broadband and phone worked OK. My telephone line is 6.1km long and there are two notorious joints.

On the 8th September my broadband stopped working. The Technicolor 582n router is connected to my master socket which is in the attic of my house where the line comes in. I have an ADSLnation filtered faceplate.

I tried another router, 585v7 I also removed the faceplate and tried a different filter plugged into the test socket . No broadband worked, but I did have a dial tone.

I reported the fault to Plusnet, and after they said there might be a line fault, I also rang the BT Indian call centre who tested the line, said it was OK , but as there was a bit of crackle they would send someone the next day. The line was tested with the faceplate removed.

The BT Openreach man came on 10th September afternoon, removed the faceplate, tested the line and confirmed that there was no broadband. His equipment showed that there was a fault about 1450m from my house at one of the notorious points. He went to the fault replaced the joint. When he returned he found that he had cleared the fault but that the broadband still did not work. He said that he was not a broadband specialist.

So I called Plusnet at first they could not send anyone as the BT fault reporting system was not working, subsequently they then said that they could not send anyone because there was an outstanding voice fault.

The BT.com/faults website showed that the fault had been fixed. At about 8.30pm on the 11th Sept I called BT to cancel the fault. They were going to ring back but never did, so I called again at about 10.30pm and cancelled the fault. I informed Plusnet.

On 12th September someone else from BT Openreach called and said he would come to my house in about 30 minutes. I said that I had a broadband fault. He duly arrived, looked at the router and pointed out that the Broadband light was on, with both phones plugged in.
He then proceeded to test my house wiring (without my explicit consent as I knew that this might incur charges). The conclusion was that the new phone has a �rectified loop� fault which may have caused my problem . He said that I would be charged for the call out, but also said I should complain as it was a new BT supplied phone.

In the meantime Plusnet left a message on my voicemail to say that that there is an external fault on my line.

The irony of this is that for years I have rented a BT 706 phone so that I could the report the frequent line faults that I get, knowing that if there was a fault it must be due to their equipment not working.

My suspicion is that the broadband was working when the technician arrived because he probably conducted some remote tests which reset the test equipment at the exchange which re-connected the DSLAM to the line. Further I suspect that he knew that there was a rectified loop fault which he might be able to charge me for correcting if it was in my house.

Naturally I do not want to pay for the call out charge which was probably caused by BT supplying me with a faulty phone and their test equipment disconnecting the ADSL service. Further the BT technician worked on my home wiring without my explicit consent.

Comments anyone?

Raises a difficult question of why did you not stop the engineer at the point where he started to test the internal wiring?

Openreach is able to raise 'no fault found' charges, i.e. if they remove the faceplate and test and find everything is working, they can still charge you, as you are meant to verify this situation before they attend.

What is not clear is that you say you called and cancelled the fault, but did not notice the broadband was working until the unannounced BT engineer attended?

Multiple things appear to have gone wrong here, and it may be that things started working due to nothing more than the extra current flowing through joints due to the repeated testing. Certainly it looks a mistake to allow the engineer of the 12th into the property if you had cancelled the visit previously.

So you reported a broadband fault to Plusnet and they suggested it could be a voice fault and you subsequently reported a voice fault to BT Retail. The voice fault was fixed by an Openreach engineer but there was still no broadband and he couldn't help you with that.

Then there seems to have been a muddle/communication problem regarding the voice and broadband faults between BT Retail, Plusnet and Openreach.

Plusnet then perhaps requested a SFI Openreach engineer to come and investigate your broadband issue since the broadband was still not working? If it was an SFI then it would have probably been necessary for him to check your home wiring and in the course of doing so he found faulty equipment in your house that was causing the problem. In that case I would imagine that either you or the supplier of the faulty equipment would be liable for the cost of the SFI Openreach visit.

Presumably removing the faceplate isolates the internal wiring? Presumably the engineer did this...
So they found a fault even when the phone wasn't connected in that case.

Does your broadband stop working with the new phones connected?
If the broadband works with them connected it's probably not that at fault.

they can still charge you, as you are meant to verify this situation before they attend.

No, Openreach ALWAYS charge the CP, it is at the CP's discretion wether these are passed on to the end user.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Raises a difficult question of why did you not stop the engineer at the point where he started to test the internal wiring?

That is a reasonable point, and perhaps I should have done.

Openreach is able to raise 'no fault found' charges, i.e. if they remove the faceplate and test and find everything is working, they can still charge you, as you are meant to verify this situation before they attend.

I have no reason to suppose that the broadband was working much before Openreach arrived. Fortunately Plusnet keep records and they show that the connection started to work about the time that Openreach left.

What is not clear is that you say you called and cancelled the fault, but did not notice the broadband was working until the unannounced BT engineer attended?

I cancelled the BT Retail voice fault because my broadband was not working but I could make and receive phone calls and I could not get Plusnet to fix the broadband whilst there was a voice fault outstanding.

Multiple things appear to have gone wrong here, and it may be that things started working due to nothing more than the extra current flowing through joints due to the repeated testing. Certainly it looks a mistake to allow the engineer of the 12th into the property if you had cancelled the visit previously.

Yes, though when spoke to him on the phone I had no reason to suppose that the broadband might be working. The Plusnet records confirm this.


Thank you for your comments.

Edited by Michael_Chare (Thu 12-Sep-13 19:55:37)

My problem is that the broadband did not work when connected to the test socket by itself with no household phones or wiring connected. A point confirmed by the first person from Openreach who visited.

Further the broadband had previously worked with the new BT supplied and BT branded phone connected.

Temporarily connecting the new phone to the line does not disable the broadband, or prevent the modem from re-synching.

Sorry, just to get back to the point about the second engineer's visit: did you request and agree to having the broadband fault investigated by an Openreach engineer when you were in contact with Plusnet?

When I had a broadband fault several years ago, I reported the fault to Plusnet and it was agreed that I should have a SFI visit to investigate the problem. When the SFI came to my home first he wanted to see my home wiring setup and know what was connected to the master socket then he proceeded to check my line from the test socket with nothing except his test equipment connected. He discovered the source of the problem to be an issue on the line external to my property.

This Openreach visit was not charged to me by Plusnet because there was a fault beyond my property but if I had obstructed the SFI in any way and not co-operated with his investigation he may not have checked the line from the test socket and I would probably have been charged for his visit by Plusnet. Also if he had found a problem with my home wiring or equipment and not an external fault then in all likelihood I would have been charged for his visit by Plusnet.

Edited by 4M2 (Thu 12-Sep-13 22:04:31)

My phone line is with BT retail. The second visit was most likely a follow on from the first visit when the fault was not corrected. Plusnet did not get as far as sending anyone, but they did leave a voicemail to say that the fault was external to my house.

The second technician who visited did say that he thought customers should be able to request some of the tests he was making. Were I able to do this it is quite possible that I would have found that the phone was faulty.

Last year I had my phone line repaired whilst I was on holiday. I was aware of a problem because I could not make internet contact to some equipment in my house.

Some years ago when there was a fault on my house wiring the technician who visited said that they were under pressure to perform work that could be charged to customers. I was not charged for the visit as at that time my house was star wired and I did not have a master socket with a detachable faceplate.

I am hopeful that I might get a Gigaclear full fibre service. After 6 months they now have 170 of the 190 orders that they need to make the service economic. Gigaclear say that once Kent CC publish their BDUK plans a few more people may sign up when the limitations of the BDUK funded project become clear.

OK, the first engineer came to fix a voice fault and fixed it but couldn't fix the broadband.

The second engineer presumably came to fix the broadband or at least check the line again and before he arrived you told him that you had a broadband fault. That visit wasn't requested by Plusnet. When he arrived he found that the broadband was connected (PPP link and ADSL?) but diagnosed that the new phone had a �rectified loop� fault which may have caused your problem and for this visit you may be charged. Who was going to pass on that possible Openreach charge to you: Plusnet, unlikely since you said they didn't request the engineer visit, or BT Retail?

What would have been the tests that you could have conducted yourself: run RouterStatsLite and check for a drop in noise margin when various pieces of equipment were in use? Rather difficult to do if you didn't have at least an ADSL connection to the exchange...Or did he mean some sort of remote tests that could be done on the line that could be requested by the customer?