New house, new line

Hi all,

My brother has just bought a new build house (so new they haven't quite finished it yet). The builders appear to have installed a number of phone sockets in the house but none of them are BT master sockets (all single faceplates that are clearly not NTE5s).

What do BT install these days for a new line? Does the NTE5 equivalent still go on the outside wall and then just feed straight into the sockets? Would they fit an NTE5 (so that I can make use of a proper ADSL faceplate)? Or do they just wire straight into the back of the builder provided phone points?

It will be a few weeks before they are in but I want an idea of what to expect as it will be down to me to get everything up and running.

Thanks.

My son has just moved into a new-build flat, hence my answer solely relates to that!

His Flat has been equipped with a BT Master Socket, plus a number of secondary sockets. The Hand-over Information Pack emphasised that the Master Socket (& the incoming wiring) wre BT's ownership & that the secondary sockets/wiring were his responsibility.

On that basis, I would have thought that your BRother could have expected something similar!

The worrying possibility is that the Builder hasn't contacted BT & that part is still to happen!

Thanks John. I didn't notice a master socket but it may be it was somewhere that wasn't obvious. Other people on the estate are already live so presumably they have managed to get phone lines...

In reply to a post by ian72:

I didn't notice a master socket but it may be it was somewhere that wasn't obvious.

Yes, in my son's Flat it was located in the corner of his Bedroom, rather than anywhere obvious!

Can you suggest any reason why the builder chose the bedroom for the Master Socket?

For example, it happens to be nearest the point where the outside line reaches the flat?
or
It is convenient to a riser in, say, a stair-well, carrying thelines to each flat, from a common distribution panel within the building?

etc.

IIRC, from an OR engineer post here the external NTE5s were ditched quite quickly for new installations. There has to be an NTE5 plus 5A somewhere, or at least a place where the extension wire(s) arrive where it will be placed.

Cross your fingers, and his, as to what cable has been used for the internal wiring!

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-Dec-13 13:42:09)

I may well end up disconnecting most of the internal wiring (if it has been sensibly done) as he will just need connection in living room and bedroom (Sky Multiroom).

But, I will have to hunt down the location of the NTE5 now that I know they have definitely gone back to that for new installs.

Can't wait to start all the fun of getting everything setup for them.

Cheers all.

I'm not sure how the NTE5 connection or even installation goes. It may even be just the wall box with a pull-cable to outside waiting for the engineer to install the phone cable and hardware. With a wire or wires for the extensions coiled in it at the moment.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-Dec-13 15:27:02)

There already seemed to be sockets in the usual suspect rooms but none of them were an NTE5. Obvious place for the socket would be the living room and that definitely wasn't an NTE5 - I am hoping they don't put it somewhere silly.

There broadband is not going to be particularly good as it is as they are on an FTTC enabled exchange but because it is new build BT have not done the cab (have sent a query to NGA Enquiries to see if that will change) - estimate is 3Mb for their connection which is less than what they currently get in the middle of nowhere.

Last thing I want is for poor master socket location and crummy internal wiring to cause even slower ADSL. But, until they get in there isn't that much I can do (unless they happen to be going over for another measure up in which case I will case the joint more carefully for socket locations).

Surprised if it was a new cab install for the new builds it wasn't installed fibre ready.

It is a large estate so am assuming it is a new cab and I know a lot of other cabs in the area are already enabled. Hopefully NGA will be able to shed some light.

Although I guess it is always possible it might come under the BDUK project - not that I am likely to get much info about that at the moment.

"IIRC, from an OR engineer post here the external NTE5s were ditched quite quickly for new installations"

Bob is right as a external NTE5 does not go well with FTTC.

As for were the NTE maybe a lot of times builders do not fit them. If OP can see BT cable on the outside wall and there a socket behind it (in the house) if so a good bet that is were the NTE should be.The BT guy who puts the line in "should" sort it out.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Can you suggest any reason why the builder chose the bedroom for the Master Socket?

For example, it happens to be nearest the point where the outside line reaches the flat?
or
It is convenient to a riser in, say, a stair-well, carrying thelines to each flat, from a common distribution panel within the building?

etc.

My Son's Flat is within a High-Rise Building & the natural assumption would be that it must be due to the location of the Risers (although I don't specifically know where they are).

However, he also has TV/Satellite connections where the main sockets are in his lounge & the slaves are in the Bedroom (which would logically suggest the Riser is near the Lounge)!

In other words, I really haven't got a clue to the precise reasoning!

Another favourite on new builds, is to have the NTE in the cupboard where the fuse board is, often housing the water tank too. Worth a look if there is one.

Will have a look. I know there is a black duct at the front of the house which I think was in line with the phone socket in the living room - so that one may become the NTE5. No water tank as it has a combi boiler. But I know where the fuse board is so if I get the chance to go back in before they move I will check it out.

Thanks all for the combined wisdom of TBB.

Hi Ian,

I moved into a new build house in May. The construction company installed phone extensions, but only a back box and blanking faceplate in the proposed location for the master socket. I had to book in BT to connect the line, at which point a master socket was installed by OR.

Hopefully OR have been more on the ball with your son's new house as it took me 3 months to get my line connected as the cabling from the street hadn't been connected to the nearest cabinet.

Thanks,

Thanks, they don't yet have a moving in date and it could be in the next 2 weeks so I suspect they may have some time without phone and especially without broadband... And of course Christmas is coming and we are hitting bad weather so that will all slow BT down.

Only worrying thing about your post is it being my son... It is my brother who is older than me - and I am pretty sure I don't have any kids out there but it is possible you have info I don't

I belive it has been mentioned already, but have you checked the internal wiring? What type of cables have been used?

The builders favourite - alarm cable certainly will not support ADSL or VDSL on an extension and even if they are only used for voice the noise pickup can interfere with the data side.

Not in a position to remove sockets from the wall yet, especially as the paint was still drying when I went in.

The Openreach duct will be grey, if that helps.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Thanks, they don't yet have a moving in date and it could be in the next 2 weeks so I suspect they may have some time without phone and especially without broadband... And of course Christmas is coming and we are hitting bad weather so that will all slow BT down.

Only worrying thing about your post is it being my son... It is my brother who is older than me - and I am pretty sure I don't have any kids out there but it is possible you have info I don't

Haha don't know where I got "son" from.

Is this house fed by pole or ducting? Usually on new builds OR will provide duct materials and the construction company will install it. You should see a grey duct coming out of the ground and up the wall on the outside of the house.

Might it be a better idea to contact the builders/contractors or BT as to if a Phone line is in place, and where it enters the building, is it ADSL or Fibre, has a line and number been applied for to BT/OR , or even asking any neighbours( already in occupancy) what the situation is with them !

In reply to a post by KelvinBridge:

is it ADSL or Fibre

Not likely!

Responding to latest post for ease...

It's ADSL (or at least it will be once a line is in.

It is underground and I am pretty sure the duct was the one I saw on the outside wall. There is a limited amount of digging I can do at the moment as it isn't my house - just want to be prepared for what I am likely to face when I have to sort it out for him.

At present I doubt my brother will be asking too much of the neighbours as he is spending most of his time trying to deal with the solicitors - I think it has come as a shock to him just how much of a PITA buying a house actually is

as you asked this >What do BT install these days for a new line? Does the NTE5 equivalent still go on the outside wall and then just feed straight into the sockets? Would they fit an NTE5 (so that I can make use of a proper ADSL faceplate)? Or do they just wire straight into the back of the builder provided phone points?

It will be a few weeks before they are in but I want an idea of what to expect as it will be down to me to get everything up and running.##



So is I there a reason that you don't choose to ask BT especially if ##it will be down to me to get everything up and running.##
?

That's rather a silly and insulting post from someone who posted this utter drivel:-

In reply to a post by KelvinBridge:

Might it be a better idea to contact the builders/contractors or BT as to if a Phone line is in place, and where it enters the building, is it ADSL or Fibre, has a line and number been applied for to BT/OR , or even asking any neighbours( already in occupancy) what the situation is with them !

Similar issue here.

I'm moving in to a new house next week. it currently has no phone line, no master socket and a couple metres of cat5e coming out the wall, coiled up next to the duct (which still has rope in).
I thought they weren't using external NTEs anymore? I've contacted BT about a line install, but they say they can't do anything until their checker recognises the postcode (new road).

Edited by deleted (Wed 11-Dec-13 19:56:48)

Is that inside the house? If so, that sounds as though the CAT 5 is to your extension socket(s) and the rope is to pull through the phone wire which the engineer will install . Exactly what I would expect. There won't be an external NTE5.

If it's external, hmmm . Pass!

The blue rope is to pull in the UG feed to outside of the property. Here at BT66 or similar junction will be fitted, the CAT5 will be what the sparks has fitted as a feed to the location of the NTE as and when it will be fitted.

The thing is, they've left nowhere for a master socket. The cat5 from the extension sockets is plastered over and ends *outside* the house. And I've just talked to the housing association and they're being extremely unhelpful, they're just telling me I have to contact openreach myself to arrange it.

That does sound like they are expecting an external NTE. Unlikely- Zarjaz may know if they are still fitted anywhere.

As i say above we have not used external NTE for a few years now .The cat5 cable will be the feed into the house maybe to a nte5 you not seen ( see Zarjaz's post above) or one of the extension sockets will be made over to a nte5.

Dont worry about it the OR bod will sort it out.

If kellys or quinns good luck.

I was just wondering if the builder was an idiot .

Possibly not Openreach trained?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I was just wondering if the builder was an idiot .

Looks like it. Currently the entire road has no lines, I'm expected to move in Tuesday and they apparently have no intention of doing anything other than telling me to contact openreach myself to arrange it. I'm not even sure an electric supplier will do anything without a landline number. I have no clue how they expect anyone to move in a week before Christmas..

?
Builders don't arrange your phone or utilities. You have to sign up with whichever companies you choose - assuming you are buying the house, not leasing/renting it.

You don't contact Openreach. You choose a phone company and order a new phone line. They deal with Openreach.

I'm renting. I'm aware I don't contact openreach, that's just what they keep saying I have to do. I've already tried BT and other ISPs, they say they can't/won't do anything until the address is recognised by the DSL checker. And as the address has existed for 3 months, I don't see that being anytime soon.

Edited by deleted (Fri 13-Dec-13 06:57:57)

You're in a worse position than my brother as his address already exists on the BT checker (which amazed me). The postcode has existed for years but lots more houses now but as the address is already in the database they should be able to order as soon as contracts are done (which have to be completed in the next week) - so busy Xmas moving house...

I'm sure builders lay on gas & elec before you move in. You just have to sign on with your selected suppliers.

In reply to a post by NHF:

I've already tried BT and other ISPs, they say they can't/won't do anything until the address is recognised by the DSL checker.

Doesn't prevent you ordering a landline for starters.

As i say above we have not used external NTE for a few years now .The cat5 cable will be the feed into the house maybe to a nte5 you've not seen or one of the extension sockets will be made over to a nte5.

You said it Bert.

I'm intrigued by the builder bring CAT5 to the outside, in that case . (Not doubting either of you, but it sounds very non-Openreach).

I'm intrigued by the builder bring CAT5 to the outside

It's just a pair of wires Bob, seems quite common these days to find the internal stuff has been run in Cat5 by the sparks.

What I mean is, you accept the sparks connection to the A/B terminals? Or do you expect to find an empty wallbox to install the NTE5 in - that would make sense . Me with wrong end of t'stick!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by NHF:

I've already tried BT and other ISPs, they say they can't/won't do anything until the address is recognised by the DSL checker.

Doesn't prevent you ordering a landline for starters.

That's not what BT told me. I was told they can't do anything until my postcode appears in their database when I specifically asked about a line install.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

What I mean is, you accept the sparks connection to the A/B terminals? Or do you expect to find an empty wallbox to install the NTE5 in - that would make sense . Me with wrong end of t'stick!

I thought they weren't supposed to use provided cable, especially before the NTE? Openreach's developers guide asks for just an empty box with the extension cable fed to.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I'm sure builders lay on gas & elec before you move in. You just have to sign on with your selected suppliers.

That was done a couple months ago. I'm having problems with suppliers because no one recognises the postcode.

Does the Royal mail recognise your address?
http://ceo.smartergroup.biz/blog/how-to-add-an-addre...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

What I mean is, you accept the sparks connection to the A/B terminals? Or do you expect to find an empty wallbox to install the NTE5 in - that would make sense . Me with wrong end of t'stick!

I wonder if pigeon post is still available as a Big wallbox would house lots of pigeons , just untill naughty Bt/ Openreach get their act together, of course !!

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does the Royal mail recognise your address?
http://ceo.smartergroup.biz/blog/how-to-add-an-addre...

Yup. It's been listed on Royal Mail for 3 or 4 months now.

Ugh, looks like most of next week will be spent dealing with BT and electric/gas suppliers (and probably couriers unhappy that their sat nav doesn't recognise my address).

You could try contacting BT_Care, they sometimes are able to get BT Wholesale to update the checker. Use this form to contact them https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

You could try contacting BT_Care, they sometimes are able to get BT Wholesale to update the checker. Use this form to contact them https://bt.custhelp.com/app/contact_email/c/4950

I have a few times... responses vary depending on who I get. I've been told they can't do anything until the checker recognises it and then tonight I was told that if I call them they can arrange an install. Weren't particularly helpful with who to call, sales aren't going to be happy because I don't want a contract with them.

In reply to a post by NHF:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does the Royal mail recognise your address?
http://ceo.smartergroup.biz/blog/how-to-add-an-addre...

Yup. It's been listed on Royal Mail for 3 or 4 months now.

Ugh, looks like most of next week will be spent dealing with BT and electric/gas suppliers (and probably couriers unhappy that their sat nav doesn't recognise my address).

I managed to place my order without the address being in the system, the BT retail site let me manually specify the address.

For directing deliveries etc I'd recommend finding the nearest postcode and giving that where possible with directions of "its the new builds near here"

Edited by vit0 (Fri 13-Dec-13 21:17:46)

So have you tried the ISP you want the broadband with?

You find what you find, some do it right, some do it wrong, and some do nowt at all.

In reply to a post by vit0:

In reply to a post by NHF:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Does the Royal mail recognise your address?
http://ceo.smartergroup.biz/blog/how-to-add-an-addre...

Yup. It's been listed on Royal Mail for 3 or 4 months now.

Ugh, looks like most of next week will be spent dealing with BT and electric/gas suppliers (and probably couriers unhappy that their sat nav doesn't recognise my address).

I managed to place my order without the address being in the system, the BT retail site let me manually specify the address.

For directing deliveries etc I'd recommend finding the nearest postcode and giving that where possible with directions of "its the new builds near here"

You can only manually specify an address if they recognise your postcode. Mine isn't in their database, at all. See screenshot.

Deliveries shouldn't be an issue (as long as it's not Yodel). They went to the wrong village before because their sat nav didn't show my house number...

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

So have you tried the ISP you want the broadband with?

Already said I had earlier. Their sites won't let me order because BT have no record of my postcode, and support says they can't do anything until they do.

In reply to a post by NHF:

Already said I had earlier. Their sites won't let me order because BT have no record of my postcode, and support says they can't do anything until they do.

You said earlier you have been offered an install

In reply to a post by NHF:

tonight I was told that if I call them they can arrange an install.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by NHF:

Already said I had earlier. Their sites won't let me order because BT have no record of my postcode, and support says they can't do anything until they do.

You said earlier you have been offered an install

In reply to a post by NHF:

tonight I was told that if I call them they can arrange an install.

No, I haven't. I've only been given vague answers telling me to call them. And I know it'll be hard getting to the right person to arrange a line install without ending up in a contract. Every other time I asked them, I got told there's nothing they can do until they recognise the postcode. No one seems to know what I'm supposed to do about it.

In reply to a post by NHF:

. No one seems to know what I'm supposed to do about it.

I've already said how to get BT to add it to the BTW database.

It used to be possible to contact High Level Complaints at BT (Group) by email to Ian Livingston, but he left a while ago now. The response from that team was almost always brilliant. In fact IL sometimes contacted people himself.

There has been no mention of being able to do that with the new CEO, but it would cost you nothing to try. Using the same (all BT?) email address format, it would be [email protected]

Good luck.

Edited by RobertoS (Sat 14-Dec-13 11:52:10)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by NHF:

. No one seems to know what I'm supposed to do about it.

I've already said how to get BT to add it to the BTW database.

And I already said I tried that, they won't help. They just say they can't do it or to call them.

Managed to talk to talktalk.. they'll try and sort it if I call them next week.

In reply to a post by NHF:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by NHF:

. No one seems to know what I'm supposed to do about it.

I've already said how to get BT to add it to the BTW database.

And I already said I tried that, they won't help. They just say they can't do it or to call them.

Using the form I linked to?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by NHF:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

... nested quotes trimmed ...

I've already said how to get BT to add it to the BTW database.

And I already said I tried that, they won't help. They just say they can't do it or to call them.

Using the form I linked to?

Yes. Just got a reply.. short version: as I don't want a contract with them, they will not do anything (including get wholesale to update their address data).

Thanks for taking the time to contact us regarding the installation of a phone line. I've been looking at your email and I can see that you're looking to take a service out with a provider that is not BT. I'm afraid we're not able to offer any support on getting the phone line installed at your property. You'll need to speak with whatever provider you want to join and they'll need to work with there supplier in order to get your address updated and installation completed. I'm sorry I've not been able

I'm sorry you didn't know the form is processed by BT Consumer the ISP.

Would've been helpful to say that since I did already state that I do not want a contract with BT.

Now I'm back to trying to get an ISP to do it.. but everyone just says there's nothing they can do... and it'll probably be 6 months before it updates automatically again (last was around june by the looks of it). I've spent a week talking to BT and different ISPs and no one is willing to get it updated. And electric suppliers aren't happy about me not being able to give them a landline number...

I just don't believe that BT won't install a landline alone w/out your address being on some BB database.

My landline was installed when my property was just known as 'Plot 3, off Axxxx St.' and BT replied with my postcode, which turned out to be wrong, by 1 letter.

As you said you'd already been in touch with them, I thought you knew.

You could always put your ISP choice on hold to speed the installation and then migrate after the end of your minimum term, but I'm sure it will make the database on its own sooner or later.

From what I can understand BT Retail would do it but only if they take a contract with them. The supplier they want to use says they can't do it (which has to be wrong). And end users can't contact Openreach or Wholesale (whichever is appropriate).

So, either go with BT Retail or stick with trying to get other companies to sort and hope that at some point they realise it is their job to get things like this chased up if they want to get any custom.

Whats the post code?

It doesn't seem to be mentioned antwhere.

As it's not my house I'm reluctant to share postcode but I have already checked all the online info for it and know that it is potentially in the BDUK rollout some time probably next year. And the house number and postcode are already in BTs (and most others) database so with luck that should make life a little easier. Hopefully they will complete this week and then all my questions will be answered...