Fibre interconnect between 2 (same-dialling-code) exchanges

Hi. First post ... I hope some technically savvy Forum members can answer my query.

Our village telephone line is connected to a small BT exchange (c.1,200 domestic dwellings) that delivers up to 8Mb/s download speeds.

We are surrounded on all sides by larger BT exchanges that currently offer up to 20Mb/s download speeds, two of which share the same dialling code as our exchange. I estimate that our exchange is about 6.5 km from the nearest of these 'same-dialling-code' BT exchanges.

(A) Is it technically feasible to make a Fibre connection between our small exchange and an adjacent larger exchange to enable subscribers on our small exchange to benefit from up to 20 Mb/s download speeds?

(B) If it is technically feasible, does anyone know the approximate cost (say, per Km) of installing that Fibre connection?

Thanks, in anticipation. Richard.

Edited by deleted (Wed 04-Dec-13 17:57:25)

The 20Mbps, (technically ADSL2+ up to 24Mbps but they can no longer advertise such speeds), speeds are distance-related, just like the 8Mbps ones are probably much slower than 8Mbps at some properties in your village. At a distance that gives somewhere between 5 and 6Mbps the 20Mbps ceases to be much faster, and at slower speeds than that is no better at all.

It can in fact be less use, as it an be less stable. On these forums there are many that are on an "up to 20Mbps" circuit but force it down using their router to get better overall performance. This graph will give you some idea. In the real world, as opposed to laboratory testing, that high end bit where ADSL2+ gains a bit again doesn't happen.

To get the ADSL2+ supply in your exchange requires the installation of the actual DSLAM or MSAN hardware there to replace the 8Mbps kit. AIUI, that may be happening before too long (in BT time!). LLU suppliers such as Sky and TalkTalk may or may not bother.

Your exchange will already be connected by fibre, but the capacity could be low.

It is possible for places like yours to get FTTC without ADSL2+, with the fibre being supplied from one of the larger exchanges. Openreach are doing that in quite a few areas.

Edited by RobertoS (Wed 04-Dec-13 19:06:11)

much more simply:

your exchange has 8mbit equipment, that could be upgraded. (by bt and competitors)

additionally, if installing fibre to the cabinet, this could go to a different host exchange

A somewhat incomplete and thereby inaccurate precis, which without my post would leave the OP with no answers to their questions .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

It is possible for places like yours to get FTTC without ADSL2+, with the fibre being supplied from one of the larger exchanges. Openreach are doing that in quite a few areas.

Seems it happens to all sorts of exchanges. Apparently Brackley (pop. 14,000) is served its FTTC from Banbury exchange even though Brackley is itself a Market 2 exchange.

More simple answers to your Qs:

(A) No, the 'up to 20 (really 24) Meg' kit needs installing at your local exchange where your landline ends. The 'up to 20 (really 24) Meg' speed is between you and your exchange, not between 2 exchanges.

{B} N/a.

However it is perfectly possible for FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) to be installed at the green cabinet near you to which your landline 1st goes, and to be fed by one of the larger BT exchanges around you. From FTTC you could get 'up to 80 Meg'.

What does BT Broadband Availability Checker say about your phone no?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

More simple answers to your Qs:

{B} N/a.

However it is perfectly possible for FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) to be installed at the green cabinet near you to which your landline 1st goes, and to be fed by one of the larger BT exchanges around you. From FTTC you could get 'up to 80 Meg'.

What does BT Broadband Availability Checker say about your phone no?

Thanks ... it says only ADSL Max available. And "SamKnows" advises under BT Wholesale list 'Not available' against SDSL, 21CN, and FTTC, together with 'There is currently no 21CN migration date for your PSTN service'.

Both adjacent exchanges have 21CN Enabled and dates for FTTC (31/12/2013 and 31/05/2014). Hence my frustration .... living in a pocket of 'slowband' with no prospect of faster speeds.

However you say " ... it is perfectly possible for FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) to be installed at the green cabinet near you to which your landline 1st goes, and to be fed by one of the larger BT exchanges around you."

This is very interesting. Which organisation(s) would be responsible for installing this (i.e. who should I contact?)

Many thanks. Regards, Richard.

Thanks, RobertoS.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

To get the ADSL2+ supply in your exchange requires the installation of the actual DSLAM or MSAN hardware there to replace the 8Mbps kit. AIUI, that may be happening before too long (in BT time!). LLU suppliers such as Sky and TalkTalk may or may not bother.

Yes .... No LLU providers at my exchange (only c. 1,000 residential properties, so presumably commercially unattractive.)

You also say " ..It is possible for places like yours to get FTTC without ADSL2+, with the fibre being supplied from one of the larger exchanges. Openreach are doing that in quite a few areas."
Do you know who pays for this, approx £cost (if it's me!), and who I should contact to explore the feasibility?

Many thanks, and Regards, Richard.

Edited by deleted (Thu 05-Dec-13 15:31:13)

Openreach do the commercial FTTC roll-out, but that ends in Spring 2014 and as you suggest you are rural then it will be a County Council based BDUK project, or you might be in the 10% where nothing improves, this shrinks to 5% by 2017 and to 2% in another year.

Time to name your county and people can point you to the project pages.

BT Openreach.

In reply to a post by DM3554:

Both adjacent exchanges have dates for FTTC (31/12/2013 and 31/05/2014).

but the dates could easily go back. Just keep your eyes on them and hope they extend one of them to serve your cab.

You don't pay for it being enabled; they either do it or they don't. You won't have any influence on it.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You don't pay for it being enabled; they either do it or they don't. You won't have any influence on it.

Unless he gets together a petition signed by most residents.

In reply to a post by DM3554:

"SamKnows" advises under BT Wholesale list 'Not available' against SDSL, 21CN, and FTTC, together with 'There is currently no 21CN migration date for your PSTN service'.

Samknows isn't as frequently updated as it used to be, and 21CN PSTN service seems to be in permanent hiding nationally. Just in case you don't know, PSTN is the phone service, not broadband. Years ago they were trialling it, then silence.

I believe there are some greenfield FTTP sites with phone delivered over the fibre, but what happens to it at the exchange I don't know.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Openreach do the commercial FTTC roll-out, but that ends in Spring 2014 and as you suggest you are rural then it will be a County Council based BDUK project, or you might be in the 10% where nothing improves, this shrinks to 5% by 2017 and to 2% in another year.

Time to name your county and people can point you to the project pages.

Thank you, Mr Saffron; much appreciated. Argyll and Bute is my County.

Given the short time frame under the commercial roll-out, much more about paying to jump the BDUK project lists now

Okay Scotland is split into two projects so its look at the maps available at

http://www.digitalscotland.org/superfast-broadband/c...

Two points:

A. The threshold at which another supplier finds it worth installing LLU equipment has been falling quite rapidly over time. By the standard of rural exchanges in Scotland, 1,200 domestic lines is quite large, so you should not rule out the possibility of another operator entering the exchange. There are other exchanges of this size or smaller with at least one competitor to BT. This may depend on how easily they can get bandwidth via the larger nearby towns.

B. In any case, given the size of your exchange and the fact that it falls under the Highlands & Island project (which is much more generously funded than the Rest of Scotland project) I think that it is almost a certainty that your area will be upgraded to FTTC under the HIE project. The only question will be when rather than whether it will happen.

That may not be much consolation if you would like faster broadband yesterday but spare a thought for those of us connected to much smaller exchanges with even more restricted service and who are going to finish up in the last 5%.

Evening XrayspeX

So the FTTC/VDSL feed would come from the "other" exchange, whilst the phone connections would continue to be by the existing exchange?

Yes

In reply to a post by DM3554:

Hi. First post ... I hope some technically savvy Forum members can answer my query.
Thanks, in anticipation. Richard.

Many thanks to all Forum members who contributed to this thread. You're very kind to devote your time and (impressive skill and knowledge) to helping newcomers to telecommunications like me ..... much appreciated.

Your posts and my resultant internet searches (to try to catch up with you all) have helped me to understand a great deal more than I did at the start.

I'm still finding it difficult to identify the BT Openreach person responsible for superfast broadband rollout in my neck of the woods (Cardross, Argyll and Bute), but I'll certainly keep trying.

Thanks, again, guys. Richard.