ADSL2+ speed?

Hello just need a bit of advice or if you could shed some light on a question i have.
With BT and on there upto 24mb/s and syncing at 12mb/s on a 23.7 attenuation...
Im sure we should get better with a attenuation of 23.7.. Thanks in advance

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 7 days, 00:09:01
Downstream: 13 Mbps
Upstream: 1.157 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.3 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 23.7 dB / 12.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 18.3 dBm / 12.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 23
CRC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 32
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 0 / 2
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0

I'd say summit weren't right there, I used to get 18 meg sync on my 27db line. I'm sure you've already tried this, but what do those stats look like when connected to the test socket in the NTE ?

Syncs at the same speed. I have removed the bell wire.
Thanks for the quick reply.

Not many errors in seven days uptime either, most odd. Have you tried a different router ?

The downstream noise margin of 8.3dB suggests it is being set to 9dB when you connect, rather than the standard 6dB or "clean line" 3dB.

Each 3dB costs you 750-1200kbps connection speed.

Have you done several disconnections and reconnections in under an hour, at any stage, to try to improve the speed? That often makes it worse, as the system can take it as instability. Or experienced a thunderstorm in the last week?

A single daylight disconnection and reconnection may help. (As far away from dawn or dusk as possible. At this time of year perhaps 9am-3:30pm).

Home Hub 4 but i don't like how you cannot get any line stats.
The internet is not used at all only on a Saturday and Tuesday

In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:

Home Hub 4 but i don't like how you cannot get any line stats.
The internet is not used at all only on a Saturday and Tuesday

Try RouterStatsHub from http://www.vwlowen.co.uk/RouterStatsHub/routerstatsh... there are versions for HH3 and HH5 - the HH3 version may work.

Nope does not want to work with the home hub 4. Thanks for the help

Just restarted onto the home hub 3 and i dont think the errors where right.. I have more errors connected for 3 mins than i did in 7 days..

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:03:57
Downstream: 14 Mbps
Upstream: 1.157 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.5 dB / 6.2 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 23.7 dB / 12.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 18.3 dBm / 12.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 4145 / 89
CRC Events (Down/Up): 4 / 33
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 59 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 4 / 1

Edited by deleted (Tue 28-Jan-14 18:53:10)

I get a 2Mbps lower sync from HH4 compared to Belkin Surf. However to use this would forego the free Wifi roaming with HH4 installed.
The difference in speed has no impact on real time use.
My opinion, others disagree, is that the HH4 sync speed is deliberately lowered to allow a good separate wifi connection for others to use..

Hmm, they don't look good. Can you leave it connected for an hour say, and repost the stats ......
I wonder if that's REIN ?

Definitely a 9dB sync-time noise margin. As I said, that can cost as much as 1.2Mbps. Something has caused that. As you know, but the OP may not, that might self-correct in a few days. (Edit - but not if those error rates are real).

Also although it's a bad time of day to reconnect, he has gained 1Mbps.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 28-Jan-14 19:03:46)

In reply to a post by flippery:

My opinion, others disagree, is that the HH4 sync speed is deliberately lowered to allow a good separate wifi connection for others to use..

You are wrong there. The Hub will sync at the maximum it can and does NOT reserve bandwidth for roaming WiFi users. They take part of the total - when required so if no one is using it you will get all of te bandwidth - a very very small amount maybe used for WiFi overheads but nothing you would notice.

OK. The HH4 had been up for 7 days. Was it new at that time or had it been in use for weeks?

If it was new, the HH3 may be the cause of the 9dB noise margin. Let's see the stats after an hour as Zarjaz requested . In which case with the HH4 restored, we could find the noise margin reduced to 6dB after a couple of weeks.

Unfortunately if the HH3 is the issue that might mean the 7 days stable connection on the HH4 has been wasted.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 28-Jan-14 19:19:32)

My opinion, others disagree, is that the HH4 sync speed is deliberately lowered to allow a good separate wifi connection for others to use..

Could you explain that theory more, as there can only be one WAN connection available for all users of a Hub.

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 01:14:03
Downstream: 14 Mbps
Upstream: 1.157 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.5 dB / 6.1 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 23.7 dB / 12.2 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 18.3 dBm / 12.5 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 7718 / 89
CRC Events (Down/Up): 17 / 33
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 151 / 11
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 13 / 1

I would imagin that a VPN is used to carry the traffic from the BT WIFI AP.

One thing is certain - there is no way that it can have any impact on the sync rate as there can only be one data stream over the DSL link.

Yep, don't like those HEC errors in such a short space of time, also the CRC's racking up when interleaving is working .......

Where to from here ? Be brave and call BT retail, jump through their hoops, see if they'll raise a Boost visit, and hope you get an engineer with some nouse ?

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

The HH4 had been up for 7 days.

I read the 7 day OP stats as from the HH3. The HH4 was mentioned in response to request to try a diff router but was discarded as it does not provide stats.

Spoke to BT india a while back ,they arranged a engineer out to fix something with the line.The line was disconnecting every time the phone rang , He did something at the exchange and said it was fixed i heard nothing after that. This line is at my grandparents and i don't want to hassle them to stay in to wait for a engineer that not really a option.

This line is at my grandparents and i don't want to hassle them to stay in to wait for a engineer that not really a option.

They still work then your Grandparents ?

Short of listening with a MW radio tuned to around 612 then theres not so many options. Can you also confirm that those errors increment at a similar rate with the router in the test socket ?

Nope. But they do a lot of golfing and bowling and choir.

Ooops!

See "upcoming" post to Zarjaz.

Something very odd there!

I misread things, as XRaySpeX pointed out.

Those two sets of stats are from the same router. That doesn't make sense to me. Seven days is a very long time for something that can cause these new sets of stats not to be reflected.

Tom, there isn't any other influence perhaps kicking in here is there, such as a Sky box, plasma TV or anything electronic they may be using?

They weren't away for seven days were they?

There's no obvious reason for 7 days of near immaculate stats to be so bad after a re-sync. (Though they are far from "high" rates).

Yes they have... Would that affect the broadband ?

Very much so! (If there is anything wrong with it). What kit specifically do they have? (Were they away for the 7 days ? If they were that would explain the clear stats).

Yes they have been away so that kinda clears the stats up .. How do you mean kit? They have a HH4 and HH3 whitch i am using now as i cannot get detailed stats from the HH4. I have been downloading and uploading stuff tonight so thats why the errors have increased.

Electrical kit in the house is what Bob is on about. Most likely something with a transformer on the power supply.

So we reckon REIN then ?

In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:

How do you mean kit?

Sky box, plasma TV or anything electronic they may be using?

I have been downloading and uploading stuff tonight so thats why the errors have increased.

Nope . A common misconception. On all connections there is a constant stream of packets in both directions at the full connection speed. AIUI that's what "always on" really means. Just when you are not using it the packets are just header data and end bits. (Think of envelopes with and without contents).

Those empty packets incur the same number of errors as part or fully used ones.

Data speeds (including speed tests) are always below sync speeds because of the envelopes using some of the bits.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

So we reckon REIN then ?

To non-engineer brains, at least mine which was only a "Certified" engineer's LOL, REIN means some big noise source external to the premises. Thinking about it now, an obvious misconception .

In reply to a post by greenglide:

I would imagin that a VPN is used to carry the traffic from the BT WIFI AP.

One thing is certain - there is no way that it can have any impact on the sync rate as there can only be one data stream over the DSL link.

Correct - it is a VPN and it just borrows a proportion of the bandwidth which depends on the sync rate to a max of 2Mb upstream and if it s not required that is available for the owner.

A couple of years back I tried running speedtests on a line synced at just under 19 Mbps. From memory, with no-one on the WiFi I achieved around 18.2Mbps. I then started some large downloads on the WiFi connection and tried speedtests again and results varied between 16.2 and 16.4 Mbps so 1.8 to 2 Mbps was given to the VPN for the WiFI service. .

In reply to a post by TomPoolHD:

The line was disconnecting every time the phone rang , He did something at the exchange and said it was fixed i heard nothing after that. This line is at my grandparents and i don't want to hassle them to stay in to wait for a engineer that not really a option.

Is the line stable now? Do your grandparents need every last drop of speed? Consumer-level modems might as well put a Lib Dem Manifesto in table form under the error stats, for how trustworthy they are. Swap it with 10 others you'll get 10 sets of very different results.

It ain't optimal but if it ain't broke...?

Seems stable now . Il give it a restart at 11am and see how it goes.
Will the noise margin go back to 6db? Or will i have to ring BT?

Edited by deleted (Wed 29-Jan-14 07:46:02)

Ok 5 days later and im here with the results. Could any one tell me how i could get a better speed now that you have these stats:

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 5 days, 14:24:05
Downstream: 14 Mbps
Upstream: 1.198 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 9.9 dB / 5.8 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 23.5 dB / 12.4 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 18.3 dBm / 12.6 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 243443 / 1510
CRC Events (Down/Up): 722 / 437
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 4773 / 733
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 501 / 177

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

Lower the target noise margin to a more standard 6dB could see you get 16 Mbps, but looks likely that this may mean more errors i.e. line does not look totally clean.

Also for posting link data, a resync so the results are seen as soon after the modem has synced will help. It maybe you have a 12 dB target margin and actual margin has dropped lower now as the sun is just setting (yes once the sun has set does have an effect on ADSL)

Here you go MrSaffron re sync in test socket:

ADSL Line Status

Connection Information

Line state: Connected
Connection time: 0 days, 00:00:51
Downstream: 14 Mbps
Upstream: 1.17 Mbps

ADSL Settings

VPI/VCI: 0/38
Type: PPPoA
Modulation: G.992.5 Annex A
Latency type: Interleaved
Noise margin (Down/Up): 8.3 dB / 6.3 dB
Line attenuation (Down/Up): 23.4 dB / 12.3 dB
Output power (Down/Up): 18.3 dBm / 12.4 dBm
FEC Events (Down/Up): 39 / 120
CRC Events (Down/Up): 1 / 21
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
HEC Events (Down/Up): 3 / 10
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 301 / 130

Ok no change in advice, lower target noise margin will give more speed, but even with 51 seconds run time there is evidence of errors, so they might get worse.

So how do i go about lowering the target noise margin? Ring BT or contact them on the BT forum?

If it's stable, the DLM may lower the (sync-time) margin to 6dB itself. It normally takes 10-14 days after the cause of the instability is removed. That would mean in another 5 days or so.

BT could reset it earlier, but the errors then may cause DLM to raise it again. That's what it's for, to balance between speed and stability.

I would think the forum route, as first-line on the phone may not know what you are talking about, and probably haven't the authority anyway.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 04-Feb-14 18:38:39)

Just spoke to BT on there "Online Chat" and someone on there was able to reset the SNR for me and he said it could take 24hrs so we will have to see. Thanks for your help.

The automatic system does work still, my line which has gone stable after the Christmas storms is back to sensible speeds once more.

Deliberately did not pester anyone to see if it did recover on its own - advantage of a second line on LLU

I still reckon there is remote interference affecting the circuit. That's erroring to quickly after the reset.