Sky Broadband has pretty much 'dropped us on our proverbial'

The story so far�
Having been a SKY broadband connect user since March 19th 2013 with no issues at all until a couple of weeks ago. The only thing we can reference happened at the same time roughly was we requested one of the free signal boosters sky offered via a TV advert. We installed said booster which yes, did then give us signal but also dropped any download ability with anything attached to it via wifi.

After then, we have been then affected quite drastically by what sky have told us is �Traffic shaping� of which pretty much everyone in our small village it seems connects to the internet at approximately 15:30 every day and we then drop to virtually no signal (normally 0.03 download) It is now to the stage that we cannot even load the preview images on the likes of a twitter page at any point in the evening now.

Spent three evenings this week on the phone to Sky now, each call over one hour long only for them to conclude this evening that the traffic shaping is the cause and there�s pretty much [censored] all they can do really and we signed a contract to agree to this back last March.

So without going into the details of me shouting at them, a lot for such a poor service. Could anyone here please explain to this not a complete laymen exactly how in two weeks our services can just go from fine and dandy to utter unusable?

Also, as we will be cancelling this service with sky (and taking legal action to cancel both the phone and TV packages too) Could anyone please advise the best suppliers who will either be able to manage or do something about this traffic shaping tat or am I now just stuck in a small village with the option of not having any broadband again?

Could anyone advise please or at least point me in a useful direct link wise as to how we can help out with this please?

Thanks
Heidi



BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER

Telephone Number ************ on Exchange HONINGHAM
Featured Products Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 13 -- 7.5 to 17.5 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 13 Up to 1 7.5 to 17.5 Available
ADSL Max Up to 8 -- 7 to 8 Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available

For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.
Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.
The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 31-Mar-2014. The Stop Sale date for IPstream is from 31-May-2014; the Formal Retirement date for IPstream is from 30-Nov-2014.
If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact them in the first instance to obtain a MAC (Migrations Authorisation) Code, and then contact their new Broadband supplier to arrange for the service to be migrated.
Note: Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Thank you for your interest.

Sorry, should have also stated once we realised how rubbish the signal extender was we disconnected it and haven't used it since.

In reply to a post by clementscastle:

please advise the best suppliers who will either be able to manage or do something about this traffic shaping tat

Certainly not Sky Connect! Surprised that you had good service to start with.

Suggest BT, Plusnet or EE; all of whom will supply you with 21CN WBC ADSL2+. However both PN & EE will charge you more than the headline prices as you are outside their ' network area'.

Please post your current router stats so I can confirm that Sky are only supplying you with 20CN ADSL Max?

Thanks for the reply,

Not that much of a genius when it comes to this so I hope this below is what you are referring to, if not let me know where to look please!

We are in a small village so didn't expect too much regarding BB but have so far had a consistent DL of 4mps normally which whilst wasn't great was certainly better than chuff all!

Systems Details
Manufacturer Sky
Model SR101
Firmware Version 1.15n.3591.R
ADSL Firmware Version A2pD039f.d24k
Modem
Modem Status Connected
DownStream Connection Speed 7616
UpStream Connection Speed 448
VPI 0
VCI 38

Hi Heidi

First, (before I forget), do not cancel your Sky broadband and phone. Assuming you do leave them, which I expect you will unless something radical happens, it is much easier and cheaper for you if both stay connected and you migrate the broadband, followed by a phone rental and calls move.

Just to help me/us, what sort of speed did you get until recently, and do you still get that speed prior to 15:30?

As you signed up in March last year, isn't your minimum term about to expire, and doesn't it become monthly from then on? What date does it actually run out?

If it is next month, you will save yourself a lot of hassle by simply starting the move process, which can be as simple as placing an order for both services with another supplier. Not TalkTalk, as at that exchange you may have the same result and be stuck again with a long term. What to do about the TV I can't advise you on.

Are you saying that everyone you know in the village gets this drop in speed, or just that you have been told by Sky that it is because of all the children getting home from school and logging on that this slowdown is happening? Have you asked anyone who isn't on Sky or TalkTalk how their service is recently?

That last question is important. It could be Sky with inadequate provision, or the exchange is temporarily short. If it is the exchange then I would expect that to clear up within a few weeks.

Re the Sky provision, there are things happening to do with BT Wholesale that may have affected them. Though Sky should have reacted long ago to stop there being any issues for customers.

Could you also run the BT Performance Test. Ignore all the red instructions, just run it. It may fail if things are as bad when you run it as you say, in which case please try some time when things are better. When you get the Results page, please click the Further Diagnostics button at the bottom, than when you get the result of that you will see two text boxes with the download and upload speeds and info such as the IP Profile.

It's the contents of those two text boxes you need to copy and paste to here.

I've more to say, but my dinner is now on the table going cold . Back later.

That all happened while I was cooking and typing! Those are great figures. We will get you sorted. Don't bother with that BT Test I suggested. I will leave you in XRaySpeX's capable hands for now.

Yes, you are on ADSL Max as I expected. Altho' the faster, prob less contended, WBC ADSL2+ is available there, Sky Connect refuses to buy it at exchanges where they don't have their own LLU ADSL2+.

In your router do you see figures labeled Attenuation and Noise Margin or SNR?

Right, to make sure I actually did answer each bit will paste the lot with my answers in - Hopefully this makes sense! I am now giving up being online for the night as its taking so long to load I want to beat the monitor!

Thanks for your help so far and I will come back again tomorrow morning when all those kids are back in school

Hx

Hi Heidi

First, (before I forget), do not cancel your Sky broadband and phone. Assuming you do leave them, which I expect you will unless something radical happens, it is much easier and cheaper for you if both stay connected and you migrate the broadband, followed by a phone rental and calls move.
**Oddly, Sky also said the same thing regarding cancelling and considering they only told me this evening the services cannot be fixed I did say I would need to wait until tomorrow when I actually have some decent bandwidth to actually shop about so haven�t cancelled just yet.

Just to help me/us, what sort of speed did you get until recently, and do you still get that speed prior to 15:30?
**Looking back though ookla speedtests it ranges from 2.34 up to 4.31 around that time before it went daft. Yes the speeds before then are mainly as normal and fine.

As you signed up in March last year, isn't your minimum term about to expire, and doesn't it become monthly from then on? What date does it actually run out?
**Yep, as it runs out on 19th March sky were happy to allow me to cancel but they also stated not to bother as it takes the 22 days to do anyway so we will end up just transferring.

If it is next month, you will save yourself a lot of hassle by simply starting the move process, which can be as simple as placing an order for both services with another supplier. Not TalkTalk, as at that exchange you may have the same result and be stuck again with a long term. What to do about the TV I can't advise you on.
**Yes, sky advisor also said that it was worth changing BB and telephone too. The TV we might need to seek legal advice on as how can we use this downloadable TV package we are now on if they can�t supply the decent broadband?

Are you saying that everyone you know in the village gets this drop in speed, or just that you have been told by Sky that it is because of all the children getting home from school and logging on that this slowdown is happening? Have you asked anyone who isn't on Sky or TalkTalk how their service is recently?
** Haven�t asked any of the locals as yet, not sure many of them are on SKY but quite a few are on BT so I�ll ask them tomorrow.

That last question is important. It could be Sky with inadequate provision, or the exchange is temporarily short. If it is the exchange then I would expect that to clear up within a few weeks.

Re the Sky provision, there are things happening to do with BT Wholesale that may have affected them. Though Sky should have reacted long ago to stop there being any issues for customers.

Could you also run the BT Performance Test. Ignore all the red instructions, just run it. It may fail if things are as bad when you run it as you say, in which case please try some time when things are better. When you get the Results page, please click the Further Diagnostics button at the bottom, than when you get the result of that you will see two text boxes with the download and upload speeds and info such as the IP Profile.

It's the contents of those two text boxes you need to copy and paste to here.
Download speed � 0.04
Upload speed � 0.03
Ping � 0.00

I don't think the detail stats matter too much XRay, though would be of interest to forecast the potential speed . She's on top whack for ADSL Max Interleaved, so anything will be better. Possibly far better. Any reputable ISP on ADSL2+ will at least equal what I suspect are the wireless speeds she just gave.

I missed a trick or two from running too fast whilst cooking .

The slowdowns are almost certainly due to Sky and the BT Wholesale changes they may not have catered for properly yet. The non-techie explanation is that the BTW product you are (or possibly were) on with them is being withdrawn soon. See this News Article, which as per the "Update" footnote applies to your exchange.

They may have moved you over to the Sky equivalent 21CN product, but purchased insufficient capacity at the handover point to them. Or cut back too early on the 20CN handover capacity.

In terms of the biggie suppliers I basically agree with XRaySpex's short list. BT's telephone support is reputed to be poor, but their internal online forum not bad. Just slow.

All of them will automatically put you on the "up to 24Mbps" service. From the connection speed you gave us it would be expected to be faster than you have ever been. The attenuation and SNR/Noise margin figures XRay requested would give us a fair idea of what you are looking at.

The unlimited download product with Plusnet that I am with would cost you one of the following, depending on whether you took line rental/calls with them or elsewhere (The line rental is of course in addition to the "with phone" prices). They do an annual line rental cheaper:-

Contract / Standard monthly price / Monthly price with phone

Minimum term 12 months and monthly thereafter / £19.49 / £16.99
Monthly / £21.99 / £19.49

There is a cheaper 10GB peak time, unlimited off-peak product, Essentials:-

Minimum term 12 months and monthly thereafter / £15.49 / £12.99
Monthly / £17.99 / £15.49

You can get line rental at a couple of places quite a bit cheaper. Zen and Primus being the favourites, but ask here before jumping in with either. Or with Plusnet line rental as well. The baseline figure bears little relation to what you need to pay for what you need.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 06-Feb-14 22:04:05)

Nit picking, but the IPstream withdrawal and pushing people to WBC is a BT wholesale based change nothing to do with Openreach

I just felt an urge to break your de facto monopoly on such errors .

In truth, in an early draft I realised that, then deleted the section, then re-did it having forgotten it was wrong. D'oh!

Fixed, thanks .

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I don't think the detail stats matter too much XRay, though would be of interest to forecast the potential speed .

Exactly the reason I ask. The BTw Checker's estimates for ADSL tend to be on the low side, as I know from experience.

Good morning!
Many thanks for all of your help last night. Granted, I had no idea what you were talking about for some of it but trying to get my head round it.

The question regarding noise on the router? I found this:
Router Statistics

System Up Time: 37:47:04

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collision Pkts Tx b/s Rx b/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 1314789 1245926 0 13366 270615 37:46:07
LAN Up 162974 128323 0 82526 412042 37:47:04
WLAN Up 646879 499837 1 11592 7352 37:46:38
Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7616 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.0 dB
Noise Margin 10.1 dB 24.24 dB
Poll Interval: (secs, at least 3s)

If that's what you meant? I hope so! Also something else which I did find in the router settings this morning also which might be nothing but you all might think different: the log files ran from 1st Jan as the same as the first line of this list below, then (oddly around the 5th Feb when it started playing up) produced these reports: is this a factor maybe?

Jan 1 04:41:11 syslog: Send out NTP request to ntp2.isp.sky.com
Jan 1 04:41:13 syslog: Time has been set from ntp2.isp.sky.com
Feb 5 23:50:52 syslog: Received NTP Sync Reply from ntp2.isp.sky.com
Feb 6 12:59:02 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 12:59:04 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 12:59:29 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 12:59:32 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 14:46:45 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 14:47:42 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 15:28:40 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 15:28:42 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 17:12:42 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 17:12:44 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 17:13:10 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 17:13:11 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 6 18:39:17 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 6 18:39:19 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 7 08:27:39 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 7 08:27:40 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex
Feb 7 08:28:07 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link DOWN.
Feb 7 08:28:08 syslog: eth0 (switch port: 0) Link UP 100 mbps full duplex

Probably nowt to do with it but thought I would ask!

Also, having slept on it now, I am (once I have found a better option of supplier of course) going to suggest to Sky that the TV package was sold to us on the fact that most of it was via download and on demand. Now as the broadband has proven to be inadequate then we cant possibly be held to a contract of they are not supplying what the initially stated.
Worth a try, if not trading standards will be informed!

So, to sum it all up, today I will be looking for better suppliers, in fact I will be contacting BT today to see if they can confirm to me what you have all said regarding to Sky not having bought enough capacity on our little network. At least with that I have a better chance of wriggling out of the whole Sky contract.

oh, and to add insult to injury, BT wholesale broadband speedtest this morning was:
DL - 2.21
UL - 0.23
Ping 338.5
evidently we are not getting the best during off peak either then
I might just have a little cry.

Thanks
Heidi x

Using http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc

The estimate if you switch to an ADSL2+ based service (i.e. one of the WBC options) is 18600Kbps to 20200Kbps

On the TV package, there is nothing stopping you retaining the TV element and downloading via another provider or watching the broadcast channels over the satellite

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

Hasn't come in as bad but this time of day normally isn't. I will give that a whirl after 4pm when it just disappears!

We did consider keeping the TV but considering just how blatantly rubbish Sky have been about the whole situation with the broadband figured if we didn't cancel the whole lot it just would make an impact that they had lost a customer of over 8 years. Hmmm funny having written that out, they wont even notice but it will make me feel a lot better!

Thanks

Heidi x

If the issue is congestion the router statistics should not change drastically.

With Sky Connect it is the space available for data from the exchange to the Internet that is the issue.

Sorry, I am still trying to get my head around all of this so apologies for not catching on as quickly as I should maybe.

You're saying this is just router settings which won't change? (as this is the last point of the line as such)

Correct, the belief is the issue is congestion and that does not affect the ADSL part of the line.

I have been shopping about...

Having taken in all the information you've very helpfully submitted I have come to this conclusion:

Because of the location here, BT will be the best option for phone and broadband. If nothing else because they are the originators who are monopolising the likes of Sky and Plusnet with regards to their network usage! I figure if I go with BT then at least i'm with the owners of the equipment and will have the best option regarding speeds.

The downside is BT TV for here is going to be pretty much rubbish too and we wouldn't be able to get the BT sport alone with just the broadband BUT thankfully can get it for free through sky. So going to give that a try instead.

Does that make sense?

Thank you all so much for the help.

Heidi x

Just to clarify BT TV

All the BBC1 and other channels that are Freeview based actually are sent over the TV aerial, it is only the on demand stuff that uses the broadband connection.

In reply to a post by clementscastle:

Because of the location here, BT will be the best option for phone and broadband. If nothing else because they are the originators who are monopolising the likes of Sky and Plusnet with regards to their network usage! I figure if I go with BT then at least i'm with the owners of the equipment and will have the best option regarding speeds.

Well, maybe .

See this comparison. The Sky one is high because their LLU service that you can't get is excellent.

In reply to a post by clementscastle:

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collision Pkts Tx b/s Rx b/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 1314789 1245926 0 13366 270615 37:46:07
LAN Up 162974 128323 0 82526 412042 37:47:04
WLAN Up 646879 499837 1 11592 7352 37:46:38
Broadband Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 7616 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 11.0 dB
Noise Margin 10.1 dB 24.24 dB

These are the router stats whenever anyone asks. They are the best speeds you can get on ADSL Max. From them I can predict you should get about 20 Meg Down & 1 Meg Up syncs if you were to switch to ADSL2+.

If your issue is congestion on the Sky line, as I believe, then those stats should never change even when you are experiencing it.

FYI: The Jan 1st in the log is not Jan 1 2014 but Jan 1 1900 or 1970, a computer's 'Date 0', which the router uses before it syncs and gets the true time off the Net.

If you go to BT you will be buying BB from BT Retail. Sky buy their capacity from BT Wholesale. So BTR cannot tell you what Sky has bought from BTW and anyway it is commercial-in-confidence. The various arms of BT operate seperately by regualtion and Act of Parliament,