ADSL stats

Can someone knowledgeable please have a look at my stats and tell me if they are OK or potentially risky.

Cheers

Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max: Upstream rate = 936 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6208 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 891 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5235 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.8 9.8
Attn(dB): 52.0 30.6
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.8
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 59 12
B: 163 27
M: 1 1
T: 1 4
R: 0 0
S: 0.9962 0.9955
L: 1317 225
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 10714882 317304
SFErr: 2941 174
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 2269 119
OCD: 91 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2141959227 364052202
Data Cells: 40737296 6538659
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 8657

ES: 2128 137
SES: 5 0
UAS: 77 77
AS: 173459

INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 16.18 17.92
delay: 0.24 0.24
OR: 32.12 8.03

Bitswap: 21898 3914

Total time = 1 days 15 min 40 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 2942 0
ES: 2128 137
SES: 5 0
UAS: 77 77
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 40 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 1 0
ES: 1 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 31 0
ES: 22 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 15 min 40 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 32 0
ES: 23 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 1663 0
ES: 1118 94
SES: 4 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 2 days 10 min 57 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 2941 174
ES: 2127 129
SES: 5 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
>

You appear to be on ADSL2 rather than the expected ADSL2+. However, at that attenuation it won't make a lot of difference.

Both the up and down speeds are a bit low in my opinion, with the downstream SNR(M) being high. Indications of instability and varying levels of noise.

The oddity is that you are on Fast Path instead of Interleaved. Is this an LLU line?

Is there a history of trouble with the connection?

Yes it is ADSL2 as there is no ADSL2+ at my exchange. I was always on ADSLmax here with estimated speed of 4384kbps from kitz attenuation calculator.

I have changed providers recently and I believe they use talk talks infrastructure but as far as I know my exchange is not LLU enabled?? This is puzzling for me. My exchange is Runfold THRD.

I am on fast path per my request as I need good pings. I get 9ms to bbc.co.uk in comparison with my old providers fast path where I got 25ms at best of times. It is probably reason for my SNR target set at 9dB? I think anything lower and it would just be unusable.

What sort of speeds would you expect to see on my kind of attenuation?

As far as I know there is no history of trouble. Been living here past 5 months and not had any major issues.

Thanks for your input.

It is puzzling for me too!

In reply to a post by Kamil:

Yes it is ADSL2 as there is no ADSL2+ at my exchange.

You can only get ADSL2 from ADSL2+, never from ADSL Max. Yet your exchange only has ADSL max and no ADSL2+ LLUs.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

What sort of speeds would you expect to see on my kind of attenuation?

4.3 Meg on ADSL Max, but you are well exceeding that.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You can only get ADSL2 from ADSL2+, never from ADSL Max.

Thanks for that I have not realized this.

Using MrSaffron's checker gives this indication what you could get with the connection (using your router stats)

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

Samknows must be out of date. The OP seems to think it's TTB. Or it could be one of the recent WBC upgrades.

Yes, it must be that otherwise it don't make sense. OP must be on recently activated TTB LLU ADSL2+ but running on degraded ADSL2 Mode, determined by the DLM..

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 28-Apr-14 22:56:14)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Yes, it must be that otherwise it don't make sense. OP must be on recently activated TTB LLU ADSL2+ but running on degraded ADSL2 Mode, determined by the DLM..

I dont know exactly but pretty sure that there is no ADSL2 or WBC21 enabled and there are no plans to do it on this exchange. I can not order any ADSL2+ products here.

On the other hand FTTC has been rolled out ish over here and I am able to order if I wanted to trough several providers.

I am on TT wholesale with my provider (so I am told) but when I go on TT website all they can offer me ADSL wise is simply broadband with max 3,8mbps estimated speed.

I dont know. Is it possible to be connected to a different exchange? This area has two exchanges overlapping with coverage. How plausible would this be that I am actually connected to different on? (similar distance away but ADSL2 enabled)

Also I am not on DLM at all. My provider is able to set SNR target manually and it takes instant to apply as well. They set me 9dB target with interleaving off per my request.

All I am not sure about is the error rate whether it will make the trough put suffer in the long run (ES)?

Thanks for replies.

You are on an ADSL2+ connection. Fact. For whatever reason, the system has set it down to ADSL2.

If you put your phone number into this checker, does it work or does it tell you the number is not recognised?

If it tells you the number is not recognised, then use the Address option instead. Do not use the Postcode only option.

The phone number or address option will tell you the exchange and lots of other stuff. Please just copy and paste what it says, but delete the phone number or address before posting. We want to see the exchange, cabinet number and the table data below those.

No problem. I have checked before via this checker too..


High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 50.7 35.2 12.4 7.8 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 43.6 23.9 12.4 6.1 -- Available

ADSL Max Up to 1 -- 0.75 to 2.5 Available
Fixed Rate 0.5 -- -- Available

I am on ADSL2 thats for sure thats what my router is displaying.. How it is possible is another story. I am still puzzled. Is it due to FTTC?

Which option of the checker did you use, (phone number, address or postcode), and why didn't you post the exchange and cabinet line above the table, as requested? (Deleting your number or address). Seeing as you seem unsure which exchange you are on.

You can't be on those BTw platforms as you are running ADSL2.

Please post a 'tracert bbc.co.uk' (you issue that command in a Commnd Window).

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Which option of the checker did you use, (phone number, address or postcode), and why didn't you post the exchange and cabinet line above the table, as requested? (Deleting your number or address). Seeing as you seem unsure which exchange you are on.

Ahh I see the exchange was there too. Here are the stats again. I have used the telephone number for it.

Telephone Number on Exchange RUNFOLD is served by Cabinet 4

Featured Products


Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)


Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)


Downstream Range(Mbps)


Availability Date
High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 50.7 35.2 12.4 7.8 -- Available
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 43.6 23.9 12.4 6.1 -- Available

ADSL Max Up to 1 -- 0.75 to 2.5 Available
Fixed Rate 0.5 -- -- Available

Any thoughts regarding ADSL2 on this one?

Edited by deleted (Tue 29-Apr-14 17:44:44)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

You can't be on those BTw platforms as you are running ADSL2.

Please post a 'tracert bbc.co.uk' (you issue that command in a Commnd Window).

You are right this is somehow TT platform but still on bt line (line is going to be transferred over today supposedly)

Here is trace route:

Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.103]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms Desktop [192.168.1.254]
2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 85-210-80-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [85.210.80.1]

3 8 ms 7 ms 8 ms 85-210-254-83.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [85.210.254
.83]
4 8 ms 8 ms 8 ms 85-210-254-104.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [85.210.25
4.104]
5 34 ms 9 ms 9 ms host-78-144-11-121.as13285.net [78.144.11.121]
6 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms host-78-144-10-77.as13285.net [78.144.10.77]
7 9 ms 9 ms 9 ms bbc-pp-sov.as13285.net [78.144.5.1]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 10 ms 11 ms 10 ms ae0.er01.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.93]
10 11 ms 10 ms 10 ms 132.185.255.165
11 10 ms 10 ms 10 ms fmt-vip132.cwwtf.bbc.co.uk [212.58.246.103]

Trace complete.

OK, so we have confirmed that is your exchange, and the tracert proves it is TalkTalk, so samknows is simply out of date. Recent TalkTalk supply at an exchange is always ADSL2+ or FTTC.

Am I right in thinking you are altering your SNRM/noise margin with RouterStats? You seemed to be doing that when you were with Zen. If you were, what was the default setting with them, and what is it with your TalkTalk reseller? (Xilo/uno, vivaciti?)

In reply to a post by Kamil:

2 7 ms 6 ms 6 ms 85-210-80-1.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com [85.210.80.1]

Your tracert shows you are connecting directly with the TT network, actually Tiscali, w/out touching BT at all. Confirming that you are running on TT LLU ADSL2+ as we thought.

You may very well be still on a BT voice line but just means that are now on TT Partial LLU, intending to be transferred to TT Full LLU some time today which will make it more difficult to migrate to a BT based line in future should you ever want to.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

I can not order any ADSL2+ products here.

Yes you can - see below.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

when I go on TT website all they can offer me ADSL wise is simply broadband with max 3,8mbps estimated speed.

That's right, they are offering you their standard unlimited 'Up to 24 Meg' ADSL2+. The estimated speed is so low cuz of your long line.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Am I right in thinking you are altering your SNRM/noise margin with RouterStats?

No!

In reply to a post by Kamil:

My provider is able to set SNR target manually and it takes instant to apply as well.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

OK, so we have confirmed that is your exchange, and the tracert proves it is TalkTalk, so samknows is simply out of date. Recent TalkTalk supply at an exchange is always ADSL2+ or FTTC.

Am I right in thinking you are altering your SNRM/noise margin with RouterStats? You seemed to be doing that when you were with Zen. If you were, what was the default setting with them, and what is it with your TalkTalk reseller? (Xilo/uno, vivaciti?)

I wonder if TT can update in exchange by them self? I ask because BT has not updated the exchange as there were no plans for it as it being FTTC enabled already so there was no point in doing it (I was told this by Zen but only as an opinion tho)

Now if I go on the TT website and try to order broadband it gives me option for simply broadband - is that the adsl2+ service?

I used to tweak my SNR as I was put on 12dB profile by DLM after initially being started off at 6dB.
Now I am just set on to 9dB with no tweaking at all. There is simply no need for it - speed is much better anyway than with this stupid ip profiling and brass business..

For your info my current provider is Pulse8. So far so good

edit: I am bit of a numpty it seems. I have not turned on the adsl2+ setting in my router. I am in fact connected in adsl2+ now. my attenuation has gone up tho.. from 52dB to 55,5dB. I suppose this is normal?

Thanks for your help.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

I wonder if TT can update in exchange by them self? I ask because BT has not updated the exchange

Of course they can! They just wheel their own kit in and get it connected up. BT has to allow them access. LLU suppliers are entirely independent of BT.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

Now if I go on the TT website and try to order broadband it gives me option for simply broadband - is that the adsl2+ service?

I answered that above.

In reply to a post by Kamil:

I am in fact connected in adsl2+ now. my attenuation has gone up tho.. from 52dB to 55,5dB. I suppose this is normal?

Entirely typical. How has it affected your speeds & NMs? I would expect it to be slower.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Tue 29-Apr-14 20:21:40)

Stats taken just now. Seeing more errors I believe? Also slightly slower but its getting dark anyway..


adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 8000
Max: Upstream rate = 896 Kbps, Downstream rate = 6324 Kbps
Path: 0, Upstream rate = 895 Kbps, Downstream rate = 5179 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: ADSL2+
TPS-TC: ATM Mode
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.1 8.6
Attn(dB): 55.5 30.6
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.9
ADSL2 framing
MSGc: 59 12
B: 161 27
M: 1 1
T: 1 4
R: 0 0
S: 0.9946 0.9911
L: 1303 226
D: 1 1
Counters
SF: 29042 26307
SFErr: 26 0
RS: 0 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

HEC: 23 0
OCD: 6 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 5729230 976136
Data Cells: 13267 8832
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 19 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 32 32
AS: 469

INP: 0.00 0.00
PER: 16.16 17.84
delay: 0.24 0.24
OR: 32.17 8.07

Bitswap: 95 23

Total time = 8 min 33 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 26 0
ES: 19 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 32 32
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 33 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 26 0
ES: 19 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 32 32
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 8 min 33 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 26 0
ES: 19 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 32 32
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
Since Link time = 7 min 49 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 26 0
ES: 19 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
>

Ty a reconnection during daylight and see, but there is a fair chance ADSL2 will be slightly faster. That's possibly because of the ~3dB attenuation rise that most people get with it (as you have done) cancelling out the benefit of the additional frequencies. Those additional errors may also be caused by the increased frequency range.

If ADSL2+ stays below what ADSL2 gives, plump for the ADSL2.