Out of the country for 3 years and everything's changed!

Wow, this is my first post here in quite some time, possibly from back in the ADSLGuide days. How are you all?!

Anyhoo, back in 2011 we were happily with Be Unlimited right up until we left the country for what was supposed to be a year. Three years later we've finally returned and oh my, has everything changed! Be is no more, and FTTC is now readily available in our street (the inlaws get FTTH but that's another matter!). I've been looking around at what's available and is it really the case that every provider is much the same as eachother? BT, Plusnet, Sky, Zen etc are all offering 80/20 speeds for around the same price (need to watch out for that line rental cost) and all "unlimited".

Is that basically it these days? Choose a provider based on cost, length of contract and customer service reputation rather than there being any kind of thrust and parry of different packages at different speeds and with different caps/usage policies? Is service contention even a thing anymore, or do all of the ISPs ultimately run over the same backhaul?

I feel like I've been on another planet for 3 years and have so much catching up to do. Help!

For FTTC Openreach control the DSLAM hence the same set of speeds on sale.

Sky, TalkTalk unbundle the data to their backhaul when it hits the exchange.
Zen has its own backhaul network too, but for some smaller exchanges it may use BT Wholesale
The market has abandoned usage limits in the consumer area apart from a few suppliers as backhaul costs have come done.

In reply to a post by Noiz:

Is that basically it these days? Choose a provider based on cost, length of contract and customer service reputation rather than there being any kind of thrust and parry of different packages at different speeds and with different caps/usage policies?

There are still differences in caps/usage here and there but otherwise you're right.

In reply to a post by Noiz:

.(need to watch out for that line rental cost) ..

lol - you've obviously been reading the forums!

Given that all these ISPs are essentially reselling the same Openreach infrastructure, using the same phone cable with the same GEA-FTTC wholesale costs, then product variation is very different. Yes, they might have slightly different internal or back-haul costs, but product differentiation at the basic service level is always going to be difficult.

That's why, in that you see differences, these are often at the level of what's bundled. TV/sports/film channels, special short term deals and so on.

For their to be fundamental competition, it would have to be at the infrastructure level and, apart from VM and a few small Altnets, there's not much of that about. The issue is the cost barrier. Putting MSANs into exchanges is one thing. Putting in any form of large scale network infrastructure over large geographical areas is something else again.

nb. contention is a potential issue as that is under the control of the SPs. Personally I've never seen any contention on my FTTC service in that speed test results are within 10% of one another whatever the time of day. Other ISPs (or locations) may vary.

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Nov-14 13:47:59)

Even BT Wholesale back-haul is used, that doesn't necessarily mean the service is the same as regards contention as ISPs still get to choose how much bandwidth they purchase.

How about line rental for sick squid?
http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

In reply to a post by professor973:

How about line rental for sick squid?
http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

As long as you pay for their expensive (compared to plusnet/sky/BT et al) broadband.

In reply to a post by Galoka:

In reply to a post by professor973:

How about line rental for sick squid?
http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

As long as you pay for their expensive (compared to plusnet/sky/BT et al) broadband.

Some can't see the wood for the trees.....

Edited by deleted (Mon 10-Nov-14 22:35:47)

In reply to a post by Galoka:

In reply to a post by professor973:

How about line rental for sick squid?
http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

As long as you pay for their expensive (compared to plusnet/sky/BT et al) broadband.

Well you are welcome to PN customer service. I remember the reign of terror, waiting a week for an answer to a ticket. Pulse8 are £14 cheaper than what I am paying for my two services at the moment, and PN & BT here. Plusnet are not cheap on a Market 1 exchange. near enough as expensive as BT proper, £22.49 for broadband only and where are the no contract FTTC deals?

Edited by professor973 (Mon 10-Nov-14 22:47:27)

See reply above if aimed at me.

yeah the broadband landscape has really changed.

With ADSL niche providers were king, but FTTC seems to have made them struggle as when FTTC got rolled out the big isp's also started removing traffic management and selling unlimited usage. Since they have the advantage of huge amounts of light user's the niche isp's struggle to compete and BE couldnt even manage to rollout FTTC at all.

Thanks for all the comments. I'm actually kind of disappointed that the market seems to have evened out so much as it makes the big players, BT, Sky, Plusnet etc more attractive, yet at the same time every fibre (pun) of my being wants to run far, far away from them.

Looking at the front page I see BT has just started doing free fibre for 6 months, plus a gift card. That's so tempting but so against everything I stand for! Man, this is difficult!

As an additional question, what's the lead time generally like for fibre orders? We own a house that we were renting out while abroad and the tenant is due to leave at the end of the month. I want to get something ordered so that it can be installed/activated as soon as possible after we've moved back in but I'm not sure if I can order anything while the line is under the tenant's name. How does this work?

Two to three weeks mainly down to how busy Openreach are in a specific area so may be a month in some places.

I don't think it is that clear cut, I had BT infinity 2 unlimited with BT TV and to be honest the catchup stuff was stuttering between the hours of 4pm and midnight, magically fine all day, go figure.

Upgraded to Zen (again) and guess what? I can watch whatever I want, whenever I want.

I still think premium providers have a place in the market.

In reply to a post by professor973:

In reply to a post by Galoka:

In reply to a post by professor973:

How about line rental for sick squid?
http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

As long as you pay for their expensive (compared to plusnet/sky/BT et al) broadband.

Well you are welcome to PN customer service. I remember the reign of terror, waiting a week for an answer to a ticket. Pulse8 are £14 cheaper than what I am paying for my two services at the moment, and PN & BT here. Plusnet are not cheap on a Market 1 exchange. near enough as expensive as BT proper, £22.49 for broadband only and where are the no contract FTTC deals?

Pulse are expensive compared to all the big boys if you are going to download much (as are all the more niche providers). I just mentioned Plusnet as that is who I happen to be with. Saying they are cheaper than your two services doesn't say much !

My point was that £6 line rental is petty meaningless if the other services are expensive.

Contracts - I'd rather have it a lot cheaper than a 1 month contract say.

In reply to a post by Galoka:

My point was that £6 line rental is petty meaningless if the other services are expensive.

Contracts - I'd rather have it a lot cheaper than a 1 month contract say.

Here, here.

Well I cannot get unlimited Broadband and line for £25 from your "Big Boys" like BT, or Plusnet for than matter on a market 1 exchange, let alone contract free FTTC. I also have suffered both. as for other big boys, such as Talktalk, there is no way I would deal with them direct, but avoiding them completely via a TT business reseller is a different matter.

Are you including line rental in that £25? If not then you can get unlimited broadband from BT at less than £25. If you are including line rental then it is a different matter.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Are you including line rental in that £25? If not then you can get unlimited broadband from BT at less than £25. If you are including line rental then it is a different matter.

That is INCLUDING line rental, which at £6 is a great saving on the soon B.T. £16.99. I am on a Market 1 exchange, so the likes of Plusnet cannot touch that price, let alone no contract tie-in, even for FTTC, no call connection charge, per second billing and daytime calls 1p per minute. Of course there is cheap broadband out there, but for those on a Market 1 exchange and wanting contract free top UK customer service, I think they are hard to beat. My next stop I think anyway, as I am fed up with more expensive Enta falling over, despite pairing with mega cheap Zen line, I am paying £39.98 for both services. About the same as the likes of PN and MORE than fibre and line from Pulse8. So looks like "a different matter" http://www.pulse8broadband.co.uk/

In reply to a post by Noiz:

Thanks for all the comments. I'm actually kind of disappointed that the market seems to have evened out so much as it makes the big players, BT, Sky, Plusnet etc more attractive, yet at the same time every fibre (pun) of my being wants to run far, far away from them.

Looking at the front page I see BT has just started doing free fibre for 6 months, plus a gift card. That's so tempting but so against everything I stand for! Man, this is difficult!

If you want value for your money also consider EE.

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/home.do

In reply to a post by professor973:

That is INCLUDING line rental

Fair enough. Can't argue with that then. If you are happy with the service then that is great. I'm considering my options for the new year when I plan to move away from BT but haven't settled on who to yet - but I like the easy life so will be looking at something that doesn't lock me into LLU and that gives me good service.

Pulse8 don't lock you into anything. Their Business broadband, either BTW or TT LLU where enabled is contract free. Their FTTC is also contract free, which is my preference and unique as far as I know. The main thing, is I have had enough of Enta outages at a higher cost and this can save me £14 a month on ADSL2+ with a higher 24mb service, or still save £1.98 a month while taking fibre. The latter has the advantage of reducing my troublesome copper from 1.2k to 300m to my cab, so looking the direction to jump on Market 1 here.

EE up here on our second line. OK if you want the absolute worst third world customer service, total lies and banding included.
EE £19.95 Plus £15.75 line rental for just 20Gb usage on my Market 1 exchange.

Edited by professor973 (Thu 13-Nov-14 15:00:46)

Sorry, wasn't implying that pulse8 did lock you in was just stating some of my thoughts on selecting a new supplier.

EDIT: Although reading your response again I wouldn't want the TT LLU option as I consider that a lock in as it is much more difficult to move from fully unbundled LLU than to move from standard wholesale connection - the process isn't yet complete for migrations from LLU and has in a number of cases caused problems.

Edited by ian72 (Thu 13-Nov-14 17:06:21)

Thanks for all of your help, everyone. After some further research I decided to go with Plusnet. People seem reasonably happy with the overall service and the fact that they maintain an active presence both here and on their own forum is a major plus for me. I got in on their 6 months "free" deal (minus line rental, natch) *and* bagged £100 cashback from Quidco, so I'm laughing.

The only thing I'm concerned about is getting the line moved over to them. I've booked it in for a few days after our tenant is due to leave (the earliest appointment available) and have let her know what's happening should Sky decide to call her inquiring about it, but I don't know if she's made any arrangements with Sky about moving her account or even told them that she's leaving yet, so this could be a bit sticky!

We shall see I guess. Fingers crossed it all goes off without a hitch...

Good luck. Let us know how things go.

Funnily enough, it's not going too well so far. I ordered the package on the 15th, with a requested install date of 05/12. I heard nothing further until the 24th when they sent an email via their support portal asking if it was OK to provision a new number as the port had been rejected - something which the ordering system told me would happen when I signed up and was OK with then!

I informed them of this and asked if it would push my install date back but the only response was an internal note mentioning that an ADSL order had been placed on the line erroneously and it should be changed to fibre. Then I got an email saying my number would be provisioned on the 10th!

Gah! I ordered in plenty of time so that we would have a connection shortly after moving in but now it's been pushed back a week! I suppose I need to call and complain but I'm stuck in work right now. Not the best start.

Unfortunately all ISPs are at the whim of Openreach .