Line quality

I'm once again looking for assistance from all your collective ADSL expertise.

I've recently had to replace my long-serving Linksys router as its progressive failure was manifesting itself as increasingly intrusive phone line noise. I'm now getting good service from a modem and separate router (both D-Link, new), but the speeds are somewhat lower than results I was getting a year or two ago. I'm wondering if the failing router has caused the DSLAM to rack the profile up to 15 dB (this assumes that my understanding of these things is correct), but before requesting a reset from my ISP (Talktalk Business), I've been running BQM to check for any other problems.

A typical result is available here

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/ping/share/0c8697c3b5c...

and the latency, at around 50ms, seems high to me. Is this within aceptable limits? For comparison, at a second property about 100m away, the latency is around 30ms, and both should be on the same cabinet.

The line stats are:

Downstream: Sync 3072 Kbps, Attn 47.0 dB, SNR 15.0 dB
Upstream: 704, 25.0, 15.0

Typical TBB speed check results are now consistently around 2.6 - 2.7 Mbps download, 0.6 - 0.68 Mpbs upstream (bits/s); as an example, Iplayer will usually function, but at times is so erratic as to be unusable. I used to get around 4 Mbps download.

(For comparison, the other property, notionally 100 m further from the cabinet, has a downstream sync of 10850 Kbps, attn of 38 dB, at 6 dB SNR.)

I'm sure I should be getting significantly better speeds, but do I just ask my ISP to reduce the SNR, or do you think I have grounds to ask them to get the line investigated, with the usual caveats about charges if 'nothing' is found? I'm concerned that just resetting the SNR will lead to the DSLAM racking it up again.

Further info: The exchange is WWPNZ, Cabinet 1 (Newlyn): straightline distance cab to exc is about 1700m, which at first sight does not fit with the downstream attenuation which is more in line with 3500m. I've been told in the past that the line distance is around 2000m, which seems a little optimistic, although by no means unlikely. However, it is quite possible that the line is actually routed via another cabinet, and I understand that there is some old aluminium cabling to be contended with. (I've used the OR checker which shows cab 1, but I do know that in these parts at least, it is not reliable in that respect.)

Thanks in advance for any comments and assistance you can provide.

Edited by Mygri (Tue 30-Dec-14 17:29:25)

You need to check the line stats immediately after a resync to check your default margin. I wouldn't expect a line with the ring wire isolated to show a swing betweeh 6dB and 15dB though so I'd guess you may well have an elevated target margin - badly performing routers that can't hold sync can do that. I had a supposed good Draytek years back which I'd had on a fixed speed service that caused me problems when I got VDSL.

Thanks for your response.

I got the stats with a Netgear DGND4000 router, and I won't have an opportunity to do such a test for a day or two; Netgear units generally have a fairly good reputation for holding onto difficult lines. All the checks I've done so far suggest the line performance is reasonably consistent, it's just slowwww.... The latency is perhaps my initial concern. I can easily request a reset to a 6 dB target, but if the latency is indicating other problems, then I'd like to try and get that fixed.

I'll report back when I've had a chance to run the test.

The badly performing router I was talking about was the one you said you had to replace. Incidentally noise on voice would normally indicate a problem with the filters or sometimes an "hr dis" fault on the line (bad joint). As you seem to be happy with that since the replacement router though I'm assuming it must have been a fault with the original router.

Latency would not normally indicate a line or router fault.

In reply to a post by Mygri:

The exchange is WWPNZ, Cabinet 1 (Newlyn): straightline distance cab to exc is about 1700m, which at first sight does not fit with the downstream attenuation which is more in line with 3500m.

You do mean WWPENZ Penzance?

The cab and its distance is irrelevant to ADSL. It's the line length to exchange that matters. You can start worrying about the cab when you get fibre.

You should be syncing at about 6-7 Meg @ 6dB NM. Ask TTB to do a reset.

The sync speed of 3 Meg shows that the sync-time NM was well above 6dB and most probably the 15 dB it is showing now. So it probably hasn't drifted much.

Hi again,

Thanks for the clarification - yes, replacing the router solved the noise problem, and I had also done several filter swaps to be absolutely sure that they weren't the problem. Reasurring to know that latency isn't normally indicative of a line problem.

I'll be on to my ISP for an SNR reset tomorrow...

Thanks again

Hi XraySpex,

Thanks for your response. Penzance - yes! I agree that line length to the exchange is the thing that matters for ADSL, but in this case we are about 25 m from the cabinet, which does not add much; I should have been clearer about that.

With respect to fibre, I propably won't be worrying about distance to the cabinet as we are due for FTTP ), when they get round to installing it.

The speed calculators I've used are in line with your estimate, so I'll be on to TTB tomorrow for an SNR reset as you suggest.

Thanks again

Hi again,

Hmmm... not sure I understand, but as I indicated in my response to your earlier reply, I'm going to see what resetting the SNR does tomorrow,

Thanks again.

I was replying to:

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

check the line stats immediately after a resync to check your default margin. I wouldn't expect a line with the ring wire isolated to show a swing between 6dB and 15dB

and showing there has not been such a swing by demonstrating that the sync-time NM was about 15dB anyway.

A high level of local noise such as MW radio pickup on a ring wire will reduce the sync. If that noise disappears as it may well do during the daytime then the result will show as a high target margin. You can't second guess what the target margin is without knowing a lot about the state of the internal wiring and it's susceptibility to noise pickup. The time of day the stats were taken and when it synced would offer some clue.

As I said in the post you wouldn't expect to see that sort of swing if the ring wire was isolated. OTOH you may well se it if there are extensions and the ring wires were not isolated in some way such as an iPlate, filtered faceplate, or newer type BT faceplate.

Hi and thanks for the clarification.

Update

Reconnected the Netgear router this morning, and it picked up at 12 dB (was 15) SNR, syncing at 3904 Kbps (was 3072) downstream and 832 Kbps (was 704) upstream. So, some unprompted improvement!

Contacted TTB and spoke to a very helpful and informative lady. She advised that in the last month there had been a number of resets, and there was evidence of interference, particularly between 21:20 last night and 07:30 this morning. She asked about the siting of the router, and I outlined the location, right next to the electricity distribution panel and the central heating control unit. Once we'd gone through all that it was clear that I need to look a re-siting the router and that at this stage there's no point in trying a manual reset.

Re-siting is not going to be easy: this is a 2nd foor flat with the master socket on the ground floor, although the extension line running from it is twisted, not flat, but the spec is not apparent. It emerges in the flat at the current router location, so relocation is going to be a challenge.

Thanks again for your input, it is much appreciated. There's clearly still some mileage to run for this situation!

Cheers

Hi kwikbreaks,

Just to let you know that I posted the latest on this topic a couple of minutes ago - see my update to XraySpex.

Thanks again for your input - it is really appreciated.

Cheers

Your modem's location is not good at all. The Consumer Unit is a nice source of RFI from all the circuits and switching and similarly te CH controller - you can get some nasty RFI spikes from there too.

Twisted pair in any form from the master to extension will have benefits - provided it is Cat5e/Cat6/CW1308 or similar. However, even twited pair is not totally immune to noise.

How well do you get on with the people where the mater socket is? Or is it a communal area? One solution might be to move your router there - either as a full router or in modem only mode and then run Cat5e back to your flat and connect into either a router or switch. That way, any potential noise sources on the cable run is unlikely to affect your connection.

Hi MHC, thanks for your response.

I now realise the original system installer has not done anyone any favours. I'm mulling over options at the moment. The master sockets are in a communal area, but they are adjacent to a communal aerial amplifier and the power supply for the slightly less adjacent remotely operated doorlock. The more I consider the EMI/ RFI aspects, the more of a disaster area the building appears to be. There again, it does seem to be the way things are going.

I think I'm going to have to do some experimenting. Locating the modem/ router in the communal area is not out of the question - the main task is going to be establishing a quiet area; I may have to resort to some sort of Farady cage arrangement.

Thanks again

Is the ringwire connected (terminal #3 on the master socket faceplate)? If so it is the most likely source of noise pickup and can safely be disconnected from the faceplate. Most modern phones don't need a ringwire and in any event ADSL filters re-establish one as there is a ring capacitor in them as well as the filter.

Edited by kwikbreaks (Thu 01-Jan-15 05:28:23)

Hi,

Just had a(nother) look at the (collective) master sockets. The incoming line is a multicore cable which runs into what I would call a breakout box, from which individual cables run to their respective master sockets.

I'm not touching the breakout box, and when I remove the faceplate on our socket to expose the test socket, only two conductors are connected (excluding the extension leads). It thus appears that there is no ring-wire connection at the master sockets, although I haven't checked any of the others.

So I'm now on the hunt for an EMI qiuet zone...

Thanks again and Happy New Year

The ring wire is the wire on terminal #3 on the faceplate which runs to your extension socket. Certainly don't touch any of the wiring going to the A and B connectors on the back of the master socket. If only #2 + #5 are connected then you don't have a ring wire.

It may be that your regular disconnects before were just the duff router. Did you mention you'd replaced the router and it had fixed the audible noise to your ISP. You can check if you have high local noise levels simply by checking the stats periodically - if local noise levels fall you'll see that as an increased noise margin and vice versa.

Edited by kwikbreaks (Thu 01-Jan-15 12:55:13)

Only two conductors connected to the back of the faceplate, ergo, no ring wire.

I'm monitoring the stats and we'll see what developes...

Cheers

There is only a 2 wire pair coming from the exchange for both the phone and the broadband. One of the functions of the master socket is to create the ring signal and send this down terminal 3 to the extensions. So you will only see 2 wires coming in and 3 wires going out.

Hi Batboy,

I'm going to have to take another look, which I can't do at present. I'm pretty sure there were only 2 wires, but I need to double checkthat I was looking at the right thing. I'll report back once I'm able to get access again...

Thanks and Happy New Year!

The incoming connection is just 2 wires and the outgoing extension wiring is often 3 wires - a pair for the phone signal and 1 wire of a pair for the ring signal. The other wire of the pair is unused. The problem is that the single ring wire tends to pick up interference and modern phones don't even need a 3rd wire so it can be disconnected.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

So you will only see 2 wires coming in and 3 wires going out.

You are confusing OP! He is looking at faceplate. There are no wires on that coming in; only going out. The input signal is carried from the test socket to the male plug on back of faceplate, not as wires.

As the OP sees only 2 wires on back of faceplate, they are the (only) wires going out and as there is only 2, ergo there is no ring wire.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 01-Jan-15 19:41:51)

A photo as always will help to deal with any confusion.

There's no confusion except yours. OP stated categorically there were only 2 wires on faceplate.

For the sake of peace and harmony I will double check when I can and report back.

Good idea, I think the real problem may simply be tiredness after a big night

Don't worry. The nights are getting smaller now.

Whilst you are checking are you able to temporarily plug your router into the test socket at the master? Whatever it gets at that point (taking account speed and margin) is likely to be the absolute best you can hope for. That gives you a yardstick to work from as to how close you are getting to the lines optimum.

Indeed!

I've been mulling over how to do this without inconveniencing others using the communal entrance. The main problem is that I will have to trail a mains lead down the stairs for the router and keep various leads out of the way to ensure people don't trip or get entangled. As you say, this will give a definitive answer on how much improvement is achievable. Once I've found the way I'll post results.

Cheers

Edited by Mygri (Fri 02-Jan-15 17:40:01)

Ah, yes, hadn't considered the potential issue with powering it - can see how that might be awkward.

Do you only have 1 phone socket in your apartment?

Hmmm...

It's the simple, seemingly obvious questions that all too often highlight the assumptions we've quite unwittingly made. At the distribution panel in the flat there are 5 potential phone outlets. One is a conventional BT phone socket. The other 4 are housed in a single unit which is part of the Kerpen HomeNet data distribution system.

I've been trying to work out how they are wired up. If they are all daisy-chained, which they should be, then that arrangement should not be a problem. If they are not, it could be a significant part of the low speed syndrome.

The investigation continues, but not tonight - prior commitment.

Thanks for the question - good one!

once upon a time...
there were adsl routers that were usb powered, use one with a laptop, and no mains power required.

'Once upon a time... ' in another galaxy, far, far away?

Used to have one actually, Sagem F@st that came from some 'provider' who was trying to provide a service - and failed miserably. I didn't find it very satisfactory, and I wouldn't have a clue how to get the line stats off it even if I still had it.

(On the faint off-chance that someone is thinking of enlightening me, please don't... )

2 wires to the back of the master socket faceplate...

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=mygriff...

Apologies for the not very good quality, but it serves to illustrate the point. I've also included a couple of pictures of the adjacent hardware to show what I'm up against...

Now to work out how to run power to the router and locate the latter as close to the test socket as possible...

Cheers!

LOL! I don't see any 'incoming' wires. Much ado about nothing!

Hi again,

OK, I spent a busy couple of hours setting up and hooking up to the test socket. I was expecting to see better results with the lines to the phone outlets disconnected, but there was no significant change. In particular the the downstream attenuation came back as a rock steady 47 dB, which means I should be getting at least 5.5M. As it's LLU, it should be somewhat better than that.

I located the router close to the socket, and started off measuring the stats via the master socket, before switching to the test socket. I went through various permutations, including 2 filters and also no filter just for comparison. I logged the results with Routerstats-Lite from the DGND4000 Router, and the annotated trace can be seen here: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=mygriff... I was surprised at the changes following router reboots, and I don't really understand why that should be.

As you have said, this now should be the best I can get, and the line wiring downstream of the master socket seems to have no deleterious effect. This would seem to leave EMI and RFI as the likely culprits, so I shall now start prowling around with an am radio...

Deep joy

Thanks for your input - it has been very instructive.

It does seem that it isn't the house wiring causing the issues from that - unless the high target SNR is due to occasional interference picked up on the house wiring but that won't show up on this test. Getting the target SNR reduced to 6dB would gain you some speed - but it may go back again if there is something causing instability.

I can't remember - have you been monitoring SNR long term - if so do you get any significant drops at particular times?

Agreed tht the wiring appears to OK, apart from interference. I intend to prowl around with an am radio to see if I can get any initial indications of possible problems. Beyond that, I'm open to suggestions. With regard to reducing the target SNR, I've already discussed that with my ISP, and from the evidence of interference that they were seeing from their end it was clear that the interference needs to be addressed first.

I did monitor the line stats including SNR for about 36 hrs, I think. It didn't deviate much from 15 dB, but I'll post an image of the trace when I can get to the file (another computer).

If the SNR is stable then I'm not sure what noise the ISP is seeing - I thought they would have seen that from a fluctuating noise margin and if that isn't happening then it sounds like noise isn't an issue?

In reply to a post by ian72:

If the SNR is stable then I'm not sure what noise the ISP is seeing

They aren't seeing any issues now but will have put that down to the elevated target margin.

Now that we can see for sure that there is no ring wire connected there is not much that can be done to improve things. "Prowling around with an AM radio" may or may not show some local noise sources but it isn't is going to produce a solution because nobody is likely to re-route the cabling or be able to fix the noise source. In any event as the noise margin is now apparently static I doubt anything will be found.

IMO the reason for the elevated margin is made pretty clear in the first post and in the clarification I requested a bit later...

In reply to a post by Mygri:

I've recently had to replace my long-serving Linksys router as its progressive failure was manifesting itself as increasingly intrusive phone line noise. I'm now getting good service from a modem and separate router (both D-Link, new), but the speeds are somewhat lower than results I was getting a year or two ago.

A dodgy router lead to instability. The margin was elevated to compensate. The router was replaced and the OP confirms that the audible line noise has gone. The obvious fix is for the ISP to reset the margin to its default 6dB. All that is needed is to find a support tech worthy of the name who can understand that simple senario.

Image of 24 hrs of line monitoring here - https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/azJUZCmtEEE0bp... The results were obtained with RouterStats Lite from Netdear DGND4000 router.

Ignore the dropouts - these are due to interaction between the router and the NIC. It's long been a problem and doesn't actually affect the router's ability to maintain continuity with the line. It was originally solved with help from these forums (Kudos Vimtogirl) by putting an unmanaged switch between the two. I'm now using the same combination for these tests, but without the switch. Despite this unexpected behaviour, the line performance at that location was very good, so I've no reason the believe that this is affecting the current problem.

That said, I've ordered another switch so that I can use it in this situation, just to make absolutely sure there is no adverse effect.

As to the SNR, does that suggest anything untoward to you?

The SNR taking a dive suggests there is a major noise source close by.

It could be external to the house or even in your flat - and if that test was done at the master with no extensions connected then external is the most likely. You need to find the source - it could be something in another flat for example and with the randomness - who knows.

Daylight hours are definitely visible there but it isn't a large fluctuation. The question is whether it would become more pronounced at a lower margin but on the face of it the ISP should be able to lower the margin to 6dB.

What did I miss - the fluctuation of SNR seems to be less than 2dB over a 24 hour period?

I don't think you missed anything. OTOH MHC missed putting his glasses on.

The OP has already made clear that the noise margin is now pretty stable - that graph just proves the point however I'd be concerned about the large number of dropouts as it will still appear to be unstable to the ISP or any automated line management the may use.

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

They aren't seeing any issues now but will have put that down to the elevated target margin.

I've just posted a link to a line stats graph in response to ian72's post. I don't know whether you'd consider the SNR stable or not.

Now that we can see for sure that there is no ring wire connected there is not much that can be done to improve things. "Prowling around with an AM radio" may or may not show some local noise sources but it isn't is going to produce a solution because nobody is likely to re-route the cabling or be able to fix the noise source. In any event as the noise margin is now apparently static I doubt anything will be found.

IMO the reason for the elevated margin is made pretty clear in the first post and in the clarification I requested a bit later...

In reply to a post by Mygri:

I've recently had to replace my long-serving Linksys router as its progressive failure was manifesting itself as increasingly intrusive phone line noise. I'm now getting good service from a modem and separate router (both D-Link, new), but the speeds are somewhat lower than results I was getting a year or two ago.

A dodgy router lead to instability. The margin was elevated to compensate. The router was replaced and the OP confirms that the audible line noise has gone. The obvious fix is for the ISP to reset the margin to its default 6dB. All that is needed is to find a support tech worthy of the name who can understand that simple senario.

Indeed, rerouting or rewiring is very unlikely. However, the ISP person that I spoke to was knowledgeable, informed and helpful; even so, she was quite clear that there was evidence of 'interference', although perhaps I should have pressed her a bit harder about its nature. That is with the new router in place, which is in the same location as the old one.

In the light of the recent feedback from this forum, which has 'eliminated some possibilities, I'm coming to the conclusion that the location of the router close to the mains distribution board and the central heating controller could be a significant factor. To that end I'm investigating relocating it, but that will not be straightforward.

This is all good stuff - while it's not straightforward, I'm feeling cautiously optimistic that an improvement is possible. Thank you!

So, what are the vertical blue lines where the SNR drops to zero?

In reply to a post by MHC:

The SNR taking a dive suggests there is a major noise source close by.

As per my response to kwikbreaks, I'm now trying to sort out relocating the router to eliminate that 'internal' possibility. As I said in my post, ignore the dropouts, they do not propagate to the WAN side of the router, although I am taking measures to curb them anyway.

It could be external to the house or even in your flat - and if that test was done at the master with no extensions connected then external is the most likely.

Indeed, my big fear is that it is external, because that then becomes a whole different ballgame

You need to find the source - it could be something in another flat for example and with the randomness - who knows.

EMI and RFI are notoriously intractable - Ho hum...

I took drop-outs to mean those where your up and down sync speeds and SNR all simultaneously drop to zero rather than those where just the SNR drops.

In reply to a post by MHC:

I took drop-outs to mean those where your up and down sync speeds and SNR all simultaneously drop to zero rather than those where just the SNR drops.

Sometimes the dropouts are only caught on the SNR trace, but they're all from the same effect. See this topic http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/multiuser/t/4302327...

In reply to a post by Mygri:

I've just posted a link to a line stats graph in response to ian72's post. I don't know whether you'd consider the SNR stable or not.
.,snip..
the ISP person that I spoke to was knowledgeable, informed and helpful; even so, she was quite clear that there was evidence of 'interference', although perhaps I should have pressed her a bit harder about its nature.

The graph shows a slight drift in noise margin with minor spikes. I'd consider it to be fairly stable. It is just possible that there are multiple short outages that were not caught by your sampling but checking the connection uptime in your router stats should reveal that. My betting is that it hasn't dropped at all and the ISP rep is just giving you some BS. All that they would be able to see is whether or not you had had disconnects and my betting is they don't actually monitor anything at all. It is possible to sound quite convincing while talking complete drivel - if that were not the case the likes of PC World wouldn't be able to charge £30 or so for a short HDMI cable.

If this were my connection and the connection uptime confirmed there are no WAN dropouts I'd ask them to reset the noise margin to default. If they wouldn't then I'd change ISP. What you do is entirely up to you of course.

I took the OP's comment in the same post as the image at face value:

Ignore the dropouts - these are due to interaction between the router and the NIC

If the router is actually dropping out and not just the local LAN connection then I agree there are issues. But, if the above is correct then it isn't a WAN issue to be concerned with.

If your router is not disconnecting and it is dropouts on the LAN as per your post then your connection looks reasonably stable. Ask the ISP to drop the SNR to 6dB and if they talk about noise or dropouts then ask for their evidence as your graph doesn't suggest there are issues (at least in that 24 hour period).

Hmmm... food for thought.

The router sampling rate is set to 5 sec, the smallest interval it will go to. I've not seen any WAN dropouts, but as you say, some shorter breaks could be occurring undetected. Over 24 hrs though, some would inevitably be seen if they were occurring at any credible intervals.

I'll get in touch with the ISP again and quiz them more closely about what they claim to be seeing. I take your point about BSing, but I certainly didn't get that impression, and as an engineer, I can usually tell when someone's trying to pull the wool on technical issues. That said, your point about gold-plated HDMI (and other AV) cables is spot on!

Unless they can provide some evidence that there is a problem, I will ask for a reset; your and ian72's comments that the SNR looks fairly stable suggest to me that this the next thing to try.

Hi,

I've just posted a reply to kwikbreaks, which directly relates to your input as well. This all seems to be pointing in the direction of asking for a target SNR reset.

My looking at it was that a dropout would stop ALL data being transferred across the LAN, Up Sync, Down Sync and Down SNR whereas there are significant periods where the Sync data is being received correctly but SNR is at zero. Look closely at some of the complete SYNC drops especially those towards the right and you should be able to make out an SNR drop just before.

I see what you mean. It is difficult to tell with a single graph with all the values - would be easier with separate graphs or the data set itself to see exactly what is happening. Key to me is knowing uptime of the router which is the information we don't have at all.

It won't lose and re-establish sync inside 5 seconds. In any event check what the router says the connection uptime is.

Worth looking and any stats you can find on errors too - FEC errors can in the main be ignored as they were corrected but CRC errors are bad news - in effect a dropped packet which will have to be re-transmitted. Some routers (Thomson/Speedtouch) report unbelievable numbers for FEC errors but sfaik nobody has questioned Netgear reporting of them. Many will have been picked up during the initial speed negotiation so look for changes over time - ideally from after a reboot but it's not worth doing that just to check.

OK, here's the router stats panel for 2nd Jan this year https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/UjC-fPKAdkK8k3...

It shows system up time of 23:05:15 (top left) and a WAN up time of 16:37:52, which indicates that there was at least one disconnect in that period. The snapshot was taken at 13:46, so it was left running overnight and had re-connected at 21:09 on 1st Jan.

Unfortunately, I can't find anywhere the router shows line error details, and it appears not to log them. Any thoughts on how I might get access to them?

Does the router do Telnet? Some Netgears do. E.g. Netgear DG834/DG834G - Check Interleaving Status

I had a look at your routers manual and don't think it gives any error statistics which is poor and it doesn't seem to be supported by DD-WRT either so it looks like the errors will remain a mystery.

It has a definite uptime of 16 hours which may well be a lot more by now. There is no actual proof it dropped sync either as your graphings didn't show any loss of sync. It may well be that it was the PPPoE session that got dropped rather than the physical sync and that would almost certainly just be the ISP bouncing idle sessions off for the purpose of load balancing. I know my ISP (Plusnet) does this as I have stuff running 24x7 and a fixed IP yet the gateway I'm attached to sometimes changes.

Here's the user guide - http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/DGND4000/...

It doesn't support telnet, ssh, snmp, or anything else that might be of use in diagnosing a problem with the line so far as I can see.

In reply to a post by kwikbreaks:

Here's the user guide - http://www.downloads.netgear.com/files/GDC/DGND4000/...
It doesn't support telnet, ssh, snmp, or anything else that might be of use in diagnosing a problem with the line so far as I can see.

So it would seem. I do have a D-Link DSL-320B Modem and an unlocked HG612. I'll have to check on the capabilities, firmware support, for the former, and the latter is unfortunately some 300 odd miles away, and I won't be able to retrieve it until towards the end of February. One way or another it looks as though I'm going to have to learn how to use telnet...

Thanks for all your inputs so far, the resources of these forums are indispensible and greatly appreciated.

There is likely to be reduced traffic from me as we shall shortly be moving north for 3 or 4 weeks. I will still be monitoring and responding to inputs however. At least I'll be coming back with the HG612...

Edited by Mygri (Fri 09-Jan-15 11:54:46)

In reply to a post by Mygri:

There is likely to be reduced traffic from me as we shall shortly be moving north for 3 or 4 weeks. I will still be monitoring and responding to inputs however. At least I'll be coming back with the HG612...

You might be lucky ... I think the Internet actually ventures north of Watford!

I imagine you'll have seen kwikbreak's posts on this aspect and I've just posted a response. There seems to be a way to go yet...

In reply to a post by MHC:

You might be lucky ... I think the Internet actually ventures north of Watford!

So rumour has it! We'll be in Liverpool, and it will be the 4th or 5th visit (family). Because of a complete cock-up (not mine) over internet availability, I've had to resort to 4G. Not cheap, but so far it has worked well.

Edited by Mygri (Fri 09-Jan-15 11:35:38)

In reply to a post by Mygri:

In reply to a post by MHC:

You might be lucky ... I think the Internet actually ventures north of Watford!

So rumour has it! We'll be in Liverpool, and it will be the 4th or 5th visit (family).

Be careful ... they might even nick your Internet electrons if they stand still for too long!

Nothing stays still for long in Liverpool. It's too windy, and when it's a cold wind it's horrible.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Nothing stays still for long in Liverpool. It's too windy, and when it's a cold wind it's horrible.