"SNR reset and training period

At my local charity shop, have a Adls2+ Btw based connection which at best syncs at 15Mbps.
Sync has been dropping steadily over several weeks .
Now download sudden drop to at first 572kbps with SNRM of 31dB att ~20dB
Asked for SNR reset by ISP - result sync 284kbps down
IP profile is 0.25Mbps.
Upload sync okay 884kbps.
ISP says that there is now a 10 day training period during which the line sync will be accessed and that they can not raise any problems with the connection during this period and I will not see any change until after the 10 days is up..
Is this 10 day period "real" or flannel.
The speeds above are what are seen immediately after modem reboot/reconnect and on test socket.
Have limited access to stats as modem is locked by ISP.

In reply to a post by rarrar:

At my local charity shop, have a Adls2+ Btw based connection which at best syncs at 15Mbps.
Sync has been dropping steadily over several weeks .
Now download sudden drop to at first 572kbps with SNRM of 31dB att ~20dB
Asked for SNR reset by ISP - result sync 284kbps down

Sounds to me like you need to do some diagnostics. The quiet line test would be a good start. Followed by investigating your wiring. Have a look here:

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm
and here:
http://www.robertos.me.uk/html/ring-bell_wire.html

Is this 10 day period "real" or flannel.

As described in your post it's flannel. There is a 10 day period but it's not for line training I think it's just for statistic gathering.

Edited by Andrue (Mon 05-Jan-15 15:56:19)

All done !
All extension wiring removed -
Quiet line always perfect .

In reply to a post by rarrar:

All done !
All extension wiring removed -
Quiet line always perfect .

Can you post your modem stats, then? From the way the speed is falling it sounds like noise.

No access to mpdem stats beyond SNRM and attenuation.
Thanks for the offer of help but what I am really after is up to date info on the 10 day "training" period after a SNR reset and is it really "nothing can be done for another 10 days".

As has been said, effectively no such thing. Who is your ISP?

Oh, I misread it!

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 05-Jan-15 21:40:35)

It's more likely a downstream attenuation of 31dB and a target noise margin of 20dB which is throttling speeds.

Regarding the 10 days training period. this is what I can see in Mysky

Testing on your broadband connection began on 29/12/2014 and will be completed within 10 days.

You may notice some variations in your broadband speed and this is normal. We are aiming to give you the best quality experience. Please leave your router on during this time.

I have no idea why testing started on the 29th as I have not seen any problems and certainly have not contacted Sky!

Recent DOWN figures just before SNR reset
31dB SNRM ~20dB attenuation 572kbps sync
after reset sync dropped to 284kbps

The ~15Mbps figure is what has been achieved in the past with a 6dB SNRM.

The sync figures seem correct for the SNRM being set.
There is obviously an issue with what is repeatedly causing the SNRM to rise drastically every few months possibly external interference.
However
The problem I have is being made to wait 10 days before "anything can be done... as the training period has to be allowed to run through - BTw will not allow us to log any more faults on the line".
I was under the impression - probably incorrectly- from my monitoring of these forum that the 10 day DLM training period was no longer applicable.

I cannot obtain any connection stats from the official modem used as it is locked and so I have to swap in an old netgear one just to get connection stats but with no login possible.

Is this the Sky Connect product, not LLU?

Edit - it looks like it must be, but I wasn't aware they did ADSL2+ on that!

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Jan-15 21:57:58)

In reply to a post by Andrue:

Is this 10 day period "real" or flannel.

As described in your post it's flannel. There is a 10 day period but it's not for line training I think it's just for statistic gathering.

It is for the recording of the lowest sync in the ten days. This is saved as the Maximum Stable Rate, and from it the Fault Threshold Rate is set. (80% or 70%, there is doubt).

Following the ten days, normally no action will be taken on a line sync speed complaint unless it falls below the FTR.

In a case such as this, where there is clearly something very badly wrong, that means that setting will have to be ignored, and once the problem is sorted out another reset and "real" ten day period will be needed.

Getting it through to Tier 1 support anywhere is almost impossible. With Sky Connect I dread to think.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 05-Jan-15 21:56:56)

No its a small ISP providing broadband connections over a BTw connection to a chain of charity shops - sorry cannot name names.

Thanks for earlier informative post about FTR and MSR
So I should have been able to go back and point out that the sync speed was way below the FTR which was set when we had a stable 15Mbps download sync several months ago ?
But now that a SNRM rest has been done I've lost that opportunity and I could end up with a new MSR and FTR in the <1 Mbps range ?

Yes and no. The sync speed is clearly so ridiculous that there is no way the new FTR will have any authority. A Tier 2 or 3 Customer Service person should realise this and have some way of getting through to BT Wholesale here and now to kick them into action.

At the end of the ten days you should not have a problem reporting the fault, but because the ISP staff you are in contact with don't know how to handle this scenario you are being told to wait. Depending how small the ISP is maybe nobody there knows what to do.

Sorry about the "Sky". I got led astray by IanBB's post.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Sorry about the "Sky". I got led astray by IanBB's post.

Apologies Bob but as the OP was being so elusive as to definite facts re his broadband I posted a live quote from my own broadband setup which does indeed state a 10 day "training period."

Not a problem. I was complaining about your post, just explaining my misunderstanding.

I have the feeling we are talking about a small ISP that we haven't heard of, with correspondingly low support when things get hairy, or something like the Post Office or Tesco.

In reply to a post by rarrar:

No its a small ISP providing broadband connections over a BTw connection to a chain of charity shops - sorry cannot name names.

I can't see why not, it's not national security. You're the one who mentioned charity shops - the ISP name is more useful.

The ISP services are provided as part of a package including VPN and filtering/blocking access to some website categories.
They advertise as providing "Managed IP networks" aimed squarely at businesses only.
Anyway ALL comments have been useful and have given me confidence in my attempts to progress matters quickly.
What I find disturbing in talking to people in general IT support (not the ISP) is how little knowledge of broadband technology they have.

IT support is a wide ranging area and covers a multitude of technical disciplines. Most company IT support is likely to be covering things like desktop PCs on a corporate network and therefore doesn't touch on the lower end broadband products. In fact, most desktop engineers probably wouldn't know anything much about any area of networking - they don't need to, it isn't their job and the network support would probably not be happy if desktop support started messing with their switches/cables/etc.

Update.
Given up the fight and will have to wait until 13th before anthing else can be done.
As a volunteer have now stepped on enough toes with Charity's IT support and ISP , so allowing their "process" to finish.
Apparently BTw are "upgrading the exchange" and have to allow this to complete before BTw will investigate.
Its not as if its my own home broadband and reducing my stress levels is probably more important