Millions let down by broadband speed ads, says Which?

Millions let down by broadband speed ads, says Which? - BBC News article with a quote from ThinkBroadband's Seb.

This Which? campaign does the rounds each year.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6978-speed-test-r... basically gives some examples of what median and mean speeds are like, i.e. what might be used if industry adopted their system.

Of course showing the median will still mean half don't get that speed and campaign will continue. Emphasing that people should pay attention to the estimate they get a lot more is the real message to give out.

From the BBC article:

"Meanwhile BT said that more than 10% of its super-fast broadband customers could achieve speeds of 80Mbps or above."

That seems very unlikely to me given that the maximum possible connection speed is 79999 on FTTC and the number of FTTP customers is presumably a lot lower than 10%.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Of course showing the median will still mean half don't get that speed and campaign will continue. Emphasing that people should pay attention to the estimate they get a lot more is the real message to give out.

And a more generic message to give out: Don't trust advertisements.

That should read: "Millions cannot read the adverts correctly and understand the meaning of UP TO ...!

Which are getting tiresome with their continual false campaign. If an advert says Up To 78Mbps then anyone getting any sort of speed, even 1kbps, is receiving what is advertised. Perhaps Which need educating in the English Language.

In reply to a post by Andrue:

That seems very unlikely to me given that the maximum possible connection speed is 79999 on FTTC

Just a small correction, I have seen connections of 80000/20000.

COULD - anyone with a capped sync of 80, could get greater than 80 if BT had a product offering that allowed it.

Suspect someone just said the wrong number and meant up to 76 Mbps, but as not my company won't be chasing them to correct

I do like the fact that FTTC 80/20 is sold as 76/19 but in fact it's 74/18...

modems don't sync at more than 79999/19999 anymore... and don't test past 74/18

So customers do get confused with the speeds....

For instance a provider tried to tell one of my folks that they would get 2.6mbps on there ADSL line but there was a fault, the provider then changed their mind and said the line could only do 1.2mbps....

However some changes where made and got the line to sync at 2600kbps... this barely gave 2mbps throughput.... they said they didn't have to as the modem synced at 2600kbps..

After getting the fault on the line completely fixed the line synced at nearly 4mbps giving throughput of 3+ mbps which was suitable...

So I think its now time to start guaranteeing throughput and not sync!

TBH, if Which think its so easy to guarantee a speed for a customer why have they not set up their own ISP?

Surely they would be the greatest ISP ever, you know, what with the guarantee of superfast speeds no matter what the conditions or distance from your exchange..

I think they ought to do a survey of car drivers who have in-car computers. The survey to be of the average speeds over one month.

Just as useful a report, but many might be surprised by the result.

The only really useful national broadband speed survey would have to classify results in attenuation groups for a start, then see how the sync tallied with that, then see how both the wired and wireless throughput compared with the sync.

Anything else is pap.

In theory Ofcom/SK know this data for their test lines, but the sample size is small hence the concentration on large providers

Your experience may be that 74/18 is the maximum test speed, but can see people testing at 76 http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html... on Infinity 2

In reply to a post by MHC:

If an advert says Up To 78Mbps then anyone getting any sort of speed, even 1kbps, is receiving what is advertised.

There is the (not unimportant) issue of reasonable expectation. If you pay for a high-speed connection from a company but get an actual speed that is lower than (or close to) that offered by a lower-priced package from the same company, then you have reasonable grounds for complaint.

And as BT are quoted as saying "customers should use their individual estimates" which then allows the customer to compare what they are offered against other options and BT also say that "customers can leave without penalty if the individual estimate is not met"

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Andrue:

That seems very unlikely to me given that the maximum possible connection speed is 79999 on FTTC

Just a small correction, I have seen connections of 80000/20000.

Is that a recent change then? When I first had FTTC installed I had something like an attainable of 92xxx and connection speed of 79999.

In reply to a post by MHC:

COULD - anyone with a capped sync of 80, could get greater than 80 if BT had a product offering that allowed it.

Which? are whining about advertising of current products so as excuses go that one fails at the first hurdle.

I don't think even the most evangelical of consumer advocates would start a campaign complaining that consumers aren't getting something that doesn't exist

In reply to a post by MHC:

That should read: "Millions cannot read the adverts correctly and understand the meaning of UP TO ...!

Which are getting tiresome with their continual false campaign. If an advert says Up To 78Mbps then anyone getting any sort of speed, even 1kbps, is receiving what is advertised. Perhaps Which need educating in the English Language.

Playing devil's advocate here for a moment but 'up to' is ambiguous. The English language allows 'We offer a connection that runs at up to 80Mb/s' to mean either:

* Your speed will be fixed at a value less than or equal to 80Mb/s.
or
* Your speed will vary, but will always be less than or equal to 80Mb/s.

Now don't jump down my throat and tell me that the second meaning is wrong. I know that. However for a non-technical person it is a very reasonable interpretation.

Edited by Andrue (Thu 18-Jun-15 12:00:20)

In reply to a post by Andrue:

Is that a recent change then? When I first had FTTC installed I had something like an attainable of 92xxx and connection speed of 79999.

I noticed it when G.INP was enabled.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

In reply to a post by Andrue:

Is that a recent change then? When I first had FTTC installed I had something like an attainable of 92xxx and connection speed of 79999.

I noticed it when G.INP was enabled.

Cool. Sadly a few years later on and my connection syncs at 67Mb/s. Those pesky neighbours... :-/

it wouldnt surprise me now if within the next 12 months the ASA update their "10% of users" stance. As there is now a conflict with ofcom's position and the ASA guidelines, which is why BT stated they are happy with just 10% of users meeting expectations. I suspect the 10% users guideline is only a stop gap and something more reasonable will come along such as maybe 51% or 75%.

Edited by Chrysalis (Thu 18-Jun-15 12:47:27)

Andrew in his ThinkBroadband article links to the Which? campaign page and the full report that is missing from the BBC article.

Both still leave millions being let down though...

Only way is BAN speed in adverts and only provide estimate once you know who is trying to order.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Your experience may be that 74/18 is the maximum test speed, but can see people testing at 76 http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/results.html... on Infinity 2

And that speed tester is ultra reliable/accurate? i say this because when i have used it it has provided dodgy results , thinks my upstream is less than 13mbps when it is always 18+mbps the downstream isn't as accurate as the older speed tester I sync at the full rates 80/20 my IP profile is 77+mbps My max ds throughput is only 75.2mbps, was sub 74mbps when on plusnet

And for the majority of people it is fine, and have looked at others on your ISP and they are beating you on upload so not our tester.

The reliable/accurate can be thrown at any of the online testers, no matter whether running on a PC or dedicated hardware.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

And for the majority of people it is fine, and have looked at others on your ISP and they are beating you on upload so not our tester.

The reliable/accurate can be thrown at any of the online testers, no matter whether running on a PC or dedicated hardware.

well my upstream tests fine on the older flash test,and on other speed-testers results are fairly consistent ,always around the 18.7-19mbps , during FTP uploads i see speeds of between 2,4-2.5MB/s

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Both still leave millions being let down though...

Only way is BAN speed in adverts and only provide estimate once you know who is trying to order.

Oh I can see that causing Virgin Media to stamp and scream