Where's my line?

Afternoon all,

Once again, I'm looking for some guidance from the site's collective expertise. We're closing in on the purchase of a bungalow in Cornwall, a deceased property, and I've managed to get the phone line reactivated with a temporary number, in order to transfer the number from our previous place, for phone and adsl broadband. We've already sold that, (and living in temporary accommodation in the meantime), so I'm under some time pressure to get the transfer done ahead of completion of the purchase, in order to free up the line for the new owner of our old place.

With the assistance of the very helpful estate agent I gained access to the 'new' property this morning to check that the activation had gone OK and I was able to dial out, no problem, but couldn't get a connection when dialling in with my mobile. Got on to my provider, Talktalk Business, who reported back with a 'loop fault'.

This was not a complete surprise, as the only connection point I can find looks like an extension box, and the fault is consistent with star-wired extensions. It is located on an internal wall and I have lifted a panel in the (chipboard) floor adjacent to it up, and can see a line going away from it, but can't see to where, and I can find no evidence of a master socket or any other extension.

All the phone lines on the estate are underground (no overhead lines) and I cannot find where the line comes in, which would be a start. The property is of concrete block construction, built in the early eighties.

If anyone can give me any clues as to what I should be looking for and where possibly to look, I would be very grateful.

The purchaser of our previous property has so far been helpful in not pushing for his line to be cleared, but his patience is not going to be inexhaustible. The estate agent is a busy man, and while I've got another access appointment this coming Friday, clearly I can't ask hime to keep cutting into his day job. Any thoughts and suggestion will be gratefully received.

If the line dials out then you have both the A and B wires needed for a phone line connected and working. Call a mobile and see what number it is seen as, does this match the number you expect.

Star wiring should not stop a phone from working and even if you had an old handset that was insisting on the ring wire, this can be resolved by fitting a microfilter.

As for the fault, depends on what number TalkTalk was testing, hence the need to figure out what the line thinks it is, BT lines have a useful 17070 that will say your number back to you, don't know if it works on TalkTalk LLU.

Sounds like it could be a rectified loop - not a hard short circuit, but a partial short often caused by moisture or corrosion on an old screw terminal. You can usually dial out with such a fault, but when calling in the ring current is shorted causing the exchange to think the call has been answered.

Get it transferred NOW and sort the problem after. And as an interim, have calls diverted to your mobile. Yes, there is a cost however it will ensure you retain the number and the purchaser of your old property will be freed up.

Hi Andrew, thanks for your comments.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

If the line dials out then you have both the A and B wires needed for a phone line connected and working. Call a mobile and see what number it is seen as, does this match the number you expect.

When I called the mobile it (the mobile) recognised the number. When I used the mobile to call the number, there was a single ring and then the call disconnected: the fixed line phone did not ring.

Star wiring should not stop a phone from working and even if you had an old handset that was insisting on the ring wire, this can be resolved by fitting a microfilter.

It was a relatively up to date (but cheap) phone, but I did overlook the filter: that will be the first check on Friday!

As for the fault, depends on what number TalkTalk was testing, hence the need to figure out what the line thinks it is, BT lines have a useful 17070 that will say your number back to you, don't know if it works on TalkTalk LLU.

I was informed of the temporary number, and the number registered by the mobile did correspond.

Edited by Mygri (Tue 21-Jul-15 20:13:06)

So if mibile reports correct number then fault as troublegum suggested looks likely

Hi troublegum,

If it's that then I guess it will need an engineer callout. Hmmm...

Hi MHC,

Good suggestion; I've already got call forward to our current address in place, I just wasn't sure if it is a line problem, whether that would mess up any incoming calls after the transfer. Guess I should have asked the question. I'll see how TTB bite on that tomorrow.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

So if mobile reports correct number then fault as troublegum suggested looks likely

We seem to be narrowing down the possibilities - all good stuff!

What you're describing sounds exactly like a rectified loop fault to me, I agree. Often I've found that to be caused by a faulty phone socket.

Hi Icaras,

Opinion so far seems to favour a rectified loop. I'll have a look at the socket if I can to see if there's anything obvious.

You do need to confirm where the line enters and the first socket/junction box. If there is not a master then you will need to get the situation "normalised". BT will normally do that free for their customers, however I do not know what TT will do or charge. Locating a master or getting one installed has to be the first step.

If you can find that and then remove all other wiring you will either remove the fault - in which case it is on your side OR if the fault remains it is the suppliers responsibility.

Firstly, apologies for the delay in responding, been away at a funeral.

So, in line with your first reply (Tuesday), I've requested the line transfer to be enacted, and they're putting in an exchange call forward. I can then deal with the fault once we've completed the purchase. On to your latest response:-

In reply to a post by MHC:

You do need to confirm where the line enters and the first socket/junction box. If there is not a master then you will need to get the situation "normalised". BT will normally do that free for their customers, however I do not know what TT will do or charge. Locating a master or getting one installed has to be the first step.

If you can find that and then remove all other wiring you will either remove the fault - in which case it is on your side OR if the fault remains it is the suppliers responsibility.

Agreed that I need to establish where the line comes in, and it looks as though I'll be pulling up some flooring - deep joy! Once I've established whether the existing extension box is in fact the master I can then disconnect any other wiring, if it exists, and then confirm whether a new master socket is required. My strong suspicion is that it will be, but we shall see.

This is all good info and very helpful. Thanks a lot.

Update:-

Just to bring things to a conclusion, lifting a few flooring panels I was able to confirm that there was no extension wiring, and the ISP confirmed that it was a loop fault. I put a call divert in place and the building re-furb work recently got to the point where sorting the problem could usefully be done without disrupting the builder, heating technicians and electrician. The fault has been cleared and a brand new NTE5 installed. All good!!

Thanks for everyone's help and comments - all very much appreciated!