|
|
|
I live in a multi occupancy building...apartments.
The incoming telephone line is E.O. > 6 Kms, as expected we all suffer very low B.B. speeds, somewhere between 0.75- 1.7 Mbs.
The incoming cable is terminated at an internal O.R. D.P.
From the D.P. there is the usual internal cabling which runs in an unknown "space" which is common to all the electrical services, eg: mains, intercom, TV services.
The internal cabling runs to all the apartments, and is terminated with the usual O.R. NTE
A recent visit by an O.R. Tech. confirmed that there is a considerable drop in speed between the D.P. and various apartments.
I asked him about a rewire in better quality cable from DP to the NTE, he just laughed!!
My question to "the team", who is actually responsible for the cabling from DP to NTE?
If O.R. are responsible, how do we pursuade them to do the work?
If not can we have a private contractor to do the work, and pehaps rewire using CAT 5 or 6?
Thanks
|
|
|
The wiring from DP to NTE is the realm of Openreach, and the way to persuade them is to pay money.
If twisted pair wiring is used then noise rejection should be reasonable, but with such long lines the slightest problems can see speeds dropping off a lot, so sharing ducting with other stuff like mains won't help, and it the same ducting was used the issue would be likely to remain.
Where abouts in the UK is the building, might be able to persuade the relevant BDUK project to do something, e.g. Fibre to the Remote Node and a small VDSL2 DSLAM at the DP. Or if in a city where Hyperoptic consider talking to them to see if building of a scale and location that might allow them to do their stuff.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
There is a considerable amount of electrical interference in the building, as checked with a M.W. radio.
My initial idea was to run twisted pair well away from the other internal cabling.
The exchange is MYSEA, which is FIBRE ENABLED.
No HYPEROPTIC
|
|
Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
|
|
|
Routing twisted pair via another route may mean less noise, but might also mean increased distance if not careful, also raises questions over permission from the landlord of the building.
Beyond any pricing issues getting the landlord on board is usually the key, and also while I know even just 0.5 Mbps extra when you have low speeds is useful, some extended testing needs to be done to learn what the possible boost will be from an internal rewire.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Thanks, I realise that there is a bit of a "trial & error" here.
I did think about disconnecting my internal cable from the DP, and running some cat 5 to my apartment.
Yes, I do know that I should not be tampering with the DP.....only thinking about it.
|
|
|
|
Where abouts in the UK is the building
LS8 2JP
|
|
|
Okay I think the best way forward would be to boost speeds outside of the premises, cabinet 29 which serves premises nearby including those in LS8 2BF offer the prospect of 20 to 25 Mbps from FTTC.
This is termed a network rearrangement and is something that a group of people can pay for, or you may want to explore what the West Yorkshire BDUK project with its ongoing phases are planning to do.
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/7019-phase-2-cont...
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
|
Thank you, I will attempt with other residents to move forward using your recommendations.
|
|
|
|
Post deleted by Brunel
|
|
|
|
BT have never allowed their cables to share ducting with mains cables.
|
|
|
|
The internal cables that link the DP to the NTE are not in a duct, they run in a "void" that is also occupied by other services.
I suspect that all the internal twisted pairs may have been installed by the builders electricians, but can't be sure of that.
The main incoming cable is all underground, from MYSEA to here.
|
|
|
|
That makes sense. It was just if they were in a common duct, they would be closer together. In a void I'd expect a bit more separation, although I guess it's not guaranteed.
If noise was particularly bad you might expect to see a high target SNR margin with a lot of variability.
|
|
|
|
It really is a complete mess. the internal telephone cables are entwined with mains power cables.
Lots of internal interference due to LED lamps, switch mode power supplies etc.
I have a fixed 6dB S.N.R.M. interleaved, DLM disabled.
It is the only way to reach the dizzy heights of a 1.5Mbs sync. speed.
|
|
|
There is a considerable amount of electrical interference in the building, as checked with a M.W. radio.
Noise on an MW radio does not always equate to noise affecting ones ADSL connection. What do your router stats look like ?
|
|
|
|
It does when it peaks near enough to 600 kHz. The hallways are lit by LED lights, and the amount of electrical noise they create is deafening.
I can trace the electrical wiring in the voids by following the approx. route with the radio.
Stats, I can just about hold 1.5Mbs @ 6dB SNRM as I am now.
Line attenuation is >72dB (down)
All this brings me back to my original query....running better quality twisted pair, physically distant from the electrical cabling.
|
|
|
The hallways are lit by LED lights, and the amount of electrical noise they create is deafening.
My brother lives in a communal dwelling where these have just been fitted. It's virtually killed his already flaky dsl connection. His nte is also fed from a communal dp and trunked along with other services.
Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Oct-15 08:19:48)
|
|
|
If it is as bad as you suggest then it is likely to have a large element of radiated RFI as well as conducted. Moving the cabling in that case is unlikely to have any effect.
Changing from CW1308 to Cat5e - the difference will be small, if any.
Rather than try to reduce the effects, you should be tackling the problem and finding out why the lights are creating so much noise - they should not. I have LEDs lights within 50cm of my modem and the incoming line probably passes even closer - with NO discernible effect.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
|
|
|
72db attenuation !!! 1.5 meg at that is indication of an already very decent pair.
The hallways are lit by LED lights, and the amount of electrical noise they create is deafening.
I can trace the electrical wiring in the voids by following the approx. route with the radio.
As I said last night, just because it makes a racket on the radio does not mean it affects broadband service, I have a fair bit of experience in this sort of thing, take your radio into other flats, or the office where you work, it'll be deafening in there too I daresay.
|
|
|
|
It is, I am now convinced that the way forward is to try for fibre broadband.
What originally sent me down the route of a better quality connection from DP to NTE, was the OR tech. stating he could obtain a higher speed at the DP
Just to put a few figures to that. He was checking in an apartment that is the furthest away from the DP, 3 floors vertically above.
Speed obtained at the NTE 0.7 Mbps, speed direct at DP 2.2 Mbps a considerable increase.
|
|
|
Speed obtained at the NTE 0.7 Mbps, speed direct at DP 2.2 Mbps a considerable increase.
I'll agree that is a pronounced difference.
The stats I was hoping to see were those from your router, showing error counts and such like.
|
|
|
Agreed the noise LED suggests devices where the driver is failing or was never built with consideration for RF emissions
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Upstream line rate (kbit/s) 480
Downstream line rate (kbit/s) 1632
Line standard G.DMT
Channel type
Interleaved
Upstream SNR (dB) 7
Downstream SNR (dB) 7.8
Upstream line attenuation (dB) 31.5
Downstream line attenuation (dB) 63.5
Upstream output power (dBmV) 12.7
Downstream output power (dBmV) 16.5
Upstream CRC 283
Downstream CRC 0
Upstream FEC 1023
Downstream FEC 0
ADSL up time 1 Day 14:02:02
Presently using the ISP provided router, which is slower but more stable than my own.
I can sync.over 2Mbs @ 6dB but that can be unstable.
Edited by Brunel (Mon 12-Oct-15 09:47:15)
|
|
|
|
These are direct to mains GU10 lamps. All " CE" marked.
They have a small switch mode pwr. supply built in the base.
When they fail, it is the pwr. supply, not the actual LED.
|
|
|
CE mark is just a stamp...
The driver side should not be failing, if they are then suggests a suspect batch and power supplies are often noisy even before they fail in fact it can be sometimes seen as an indicator of imminent failure
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Thank you.
There are only a handful of minor errors in over a days up time, I would suggest that there is no interference affecting your line, and that replacing the cable from DP to NTE as you suggest would be a waste of time and money. DSL does have a VERY pronounced 'drop off' in sync rates when you get to the last knockings of attenuation. You quote 72db, get to around 75db [lus and it's hit and miss you'll get sync at all.
|
|
|
|
I would like to try some OSRAM branded, rather than the no name Chines imports.
|
|
|
Can you try your line with all the lights ON and then OFF
What are the basic comparative stats - attenuation, SNR and SYNC in both cases?
A lot of branded LEDs in Europe are the exact same as some of the branded ones. Where do you think the major brands have their manufactured?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
|
|
|
|
The line attenuation, I am using the figure obtained from a 2wire router,
I know we are all "just hanging in there"
|
|
|
I am using the figure obtained from a 2wire router,
Which will hang in there better than most.
|
|
|
The OP has already posted some stats, I reckon it's got nowt to do with REIN and everything to do with line length.
|
|
|
|
With the main lights off there is another source of interference from all the emergency lights.
These days we are surrounded by electrical noise, power line adapters being the main culprit.
|
|
|
|
Which will hang in there better than most.
It used to, but now because there is no control of the connection mode it connects at ADSL 2 which makes it unstable.
I can only connect at GDMT for a stable connection.
|
|
|
A direct comparison should show the difference - if there is any.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
|
|
|
Can't you disable the ADSL2/2+ in the GUI, rather than wanting to select?
The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 59999/14372kbps @ 600m. - BQM
|
|
|
|
Not on the 2wire
I can on present router of course.
|
|
|
Alas at those line lengths getting attenuation data that is accurate will be difficult.
But if the wiring is snaking around then another couple of hundred metres of twisted pair will account for some of the speed drop.
One option we've not mentioned would be to get the master sockets relocated to the comms cupboard, and then using existing wiring to run filtered wiring to the flats and add Ethernet cable to take the signal to each flat with a switch and wireless access point in each flat. £125 per master socket relocation in theory, but if done in bulk order a discount may be possible, running the Ethernet and extra broadband hardware will cost. Ethernet signals are more resilient to the noise and not just because of the cat5e structure.
|
|
The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
|
|
|
Alas at those line lengths getting attenuation data that is accurate will be difficult.
Even without the attenuation figures the SNR and sync speeds would show whether there is a noise issue.
You are right about moving the master - however there always seems to be resistance to this from both BT and the end user as it leaves both their router and phone line open to abuse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
M H C
taurus excreta cerebrum vincit
|
Pages in this thread: 
Print Thread
Brunel
