have I been reverted to ADSL Max ???

Hey all.

Very windy here and lost connection 3 times now for about 30 mins and now seems to be back up but now we have lost about 300Kbps from our downstream and half our upstream.

This was our last test done about 5 days ago:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14473...

And after the 40 odd mins downtime:
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14477...

Going by the upstream speed 430Kbps to me it seems that we have currently synced up as ADSL Max.

This is what we are currently syncing at on our HH4 (Type A)

DSL noise margin: 6.00 dB upstream, 5.60 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 529 Kbps upstream, 6040 Kbps downstream

And this was what we normally sync up at:

DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 1060 Kbps upstream, 6360 Kbps downstream

and before then

DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 1095 Kbps upstream, 6424 Kbps downstream

I am wondering how long do I have to wait before I do a reboot?
I normally wait several hours after the HH4 does its fortnightly reboot to get our correct speeds.

Also I guess its pointless rebooting while it still windy out there

Paul

Wind shouldnt effect your connection should it? Unless the cabling was dodgy maybe.

Resync in the morning is always best when the sun is up, although resync at night usually effects download more than upload (going on experience)

And we lost connection again:

DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 1076 Kbps upstream, 6133 Kbps downstream
DSL is down after 43 minutes uptime

Seems that we have got our upstream and now lost some downstream (approx. 300 to 400Kbps sync) LOL.

http://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/button/14477...

One thing I did notice this time was our phones was dead, so maybe a line fault due to the wind.

I will see how it goes and run some BT Tests and if still an issue tomorrow I will report it as a phone fault.

Paul

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Wind shouldnt effect your connection should it? Unless the cabling was dodgy maybe.

Well our line has been dodgy for the last few years, to a point when it rains we lost our connections (on both lines) now only one line due to younger brother moved out.

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Resync in the morning is always best when the sun is up, although resync at night usually effects download more than upload (going on experience)

Well our sync speed is always low due to being on the last pole on the furthest cabinet of our exchange, so it never has been an issue when we reboot our HH4, but yeah I always try to reboot the early hours about 2am.

We have only had bad sync speeds like above when it rains heavy or when its very windy.

Sad thing in most of the time its normally just an intermittent fault so I don't report those, only when we was loosing our line every few mins I reported it, even BT Support that I was talking to on my mobile was getting very frustrated due to he couldn't complete any line tests due to it kept dropping, that resulted in a new PCP cabinet being installed a few feet from our old PCP cabinet (I mean very old).

Roll on end of the month where our local MP was told by somebody from BT's Head of parliamentary affairs a projected date for our FTTP to be ready,
So hopefully that would resolve all our issues, that's if it gets done then

Paul

I would switch the modem/router off until daylight.

If these disconnections continue overnight DLM will really hammer you.

Edited by RobertoS (Tue 17-Nov-15 23:17:43)

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I would switch the modem/router off until daylight.

If these disconnections continue overnight DLM will really hammer you.

We are always hammered by DLM due to the intermittent fault on our line, when goes too high I phone BT and get it reset and after a few days its back to norm, well until it rains or gets windy.

At the moment the last lost connection I think was due to the strange SNR it gave us where it should be set to 5.9dB (up) and 6.0dB (down)

It seems stable at the moment:

BT Diagnostics Test
BT Wholesale Speadtest

So only time will tell.

Seems to be some issues due to the wind, we haven't lost connection again yet, but while doing some speed tests on there you can see when the wind was blowing LOL

Was very and I mean very windy at the start of the test:
TBB:Speadtest:144780315577475144809

This test I thought I was going to get away with it but sadly the wind started to blow again while doing the upload test:
TBB:Speadtest:144780320218424763874

Oh and a 3rd Party Speedtest just in case.

Soo... tonight we have lost connection 5 times, 3 of those we defiantly lost our phone line.

See this is why I want everything moved over to fibre when it gets done, and that also including the phone.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Tue 17-Nov-15 23:48:57)

have I been reverted to ADSL Max ???

No!

ADSL Max is different (20CN) exchange equipment to WBC 21CN (ADSL1/ADSL2/ADSL2+ depending on the line) and requires an engineer to physically move the line from one set of equipment to another.

All exchanges where 21CN is present are having the 20CN equipment removed and everyone is being moved to 21CN.

In reply to a post by jelv:

have I been reverted to ADSL Max ???

No!

ADSL Max is different (20CN) exchange equipment to WBC 21CN (ADSL1/ADSL2/ADSL2+ depending on the line) and requires an engineer to physically move the line from one set of equipment to another.

All exchanges where 21CN is present are having the 20CN equipment removed and everyone is being moved to 21CN.

Yeah, we are now back to near normal speeds, it seems that the winds last night must of loosened some wires due to our phone line was also down.

Also our exchange still supports the following featured products:

WBC ADSL 2+
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M
ADSL Max
WBC Fixed Rate
Fixed Rate
Copper Multicast

When we signed up to BT few years back we got dumped with Max due to no free ADSL2+ line cards, but after a few calls moaning about it they found one and changed to that one.

Thing is I have had our ADSL2+ line connection fall back on to ADSL Max (i.e. G.992.1 G.dmt ) it seems to do it when we get loads of wind and rain where it changes the modulation if I recall, hard to know now we are using a HH4.

But yeah, I was aware of the 20CN being replaced.

Paul

It may have fallen back to ADSL1 (i.e. G.992.1 G.dmt ) but it can't fall back to ADSL Max which is a 20CN only product.

You can get ADSL1 on both 20CN and 21CN. On 21CN, when it falls back to ADSL1 you can still have faster upload sync speeds .

In reply to a post by jelv:

It may have fallen back to ADSL1 (i.e. G.992.1 G.dmt ) but it can't fall back to ADSL Max which is a 20CN only product.

You can get ADSL1 on both 20CN and 21CN. On 21CN, when it falls back to ADSL1 you can still have faster upload sync speeds .

Sorry, that's what I meant, I was referring to the modulation used when syncing up, I did notice this a few times in the past when we was on a non BT modem/router, now using a HH4 (Type A) so its hard to know what's going on due to the HH4 shows jack squat (i.e. nothing), I do have a Fritz!Box 3390, but seem to of lost the power brick to it.

I did recall being put on Max for a few weeks when we first joined BT, but that was due to they had no ADSL2+ line cards available (i.e capacity issue at our exchange etc) at the time and was then moved after a few moans to them, i.e miss selling etc to ADSL2+.

Paul

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I would switch the modem/router off until daylight.

If these disconnections continue overnight DLM will really hammer you.

It has bitten me again and lost connection twice three times, the last two times the phone line went dead, and when it started to come back up I could hear crackles and a very faint crossed line, also had a very high pitch whining noise and then it cleared up to no noise and broadband came back (at a lower speed).

I wish BT could be more imaginative with the logs, every time it loose connection and the phone line goes dead, the HH4 WAN Logs the following (read each set of logs from bottom to top):

[20:04:43, 20 Nov]
DSL noise margin: 6.00 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 700 Kbps upstream, 6296 Kbps downstream
DSL is down after 4174 minutes uptime
ETHoA is down after 4174 minutes uptime
PPPoA is down after 4174 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN DSL - Up)]
PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

Then 11 mins later the following:

[20:16:58, 20 Nov]
DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.10 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 522 Kbps upstream, 6040 Kbps downstream
DSL is down after 11 minutes uptime
ETHoA is down after 11 minutes uptime
PPPoA is down after 11 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN DSL - Up)]
PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

Then 28 mins later:

[20:46:25, 20 Nov]
DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
DSL line rate: 945 Kbps upstream, 6389 Kbps downstream
DSL is down after 28 minutes uptime
ETHoA is down after 28 minutes uptime
PPPoA is down after 28 minutes uptime [Waiting for Underlying Connection (WAN DSL - Up)]
PPP LCP Send Termination Request [User request]

TBB:Speedtest:144805287011565530039
Nobody is using the connection due to I turned off the Wifi and connected my PC directly to the HH4 (Type A)

Even Speedtest.net used to say 5.6Mbps (down) and 0.90Mbps (up) with a latency of about 10 to 16 mS, but sadly it now 1Mbps slower and I have lost half the upstream again:

http://www.speedtest.net/result/4849543858.png
and
http://www.speedtest.net/result/4849548762.png

Not a happy at the moment.

Paul

Saying that though I vaguely recollect that 21CN equipment can pump out ADSL in addition to ADSL2+
I think once we had to change the settings to ADSL (from ADSL2+) to give someone service on a long line, and this was all done remotely.

Saying that though I vaguely recollect that 21CN equipment can pump out ADSL in addition to ADSL2+

AFAIK that is called ADSL1

It wasn't called ADSL1 when it was invented. It was just called ADSL!

It is pointless speculating whether your modulation has reverted to ADSL Max (or G.DMT).

Clearly, there is a dodgy connection or similar fault in the wiring between the telephone exchange and your home. Although you haven't mentioned the route, I suspect the cable runs underground as far as a BT cabinet, before continuing above ground via a series of telegraph poles. Overhead sections are prone to problems, which might involve loose connections or dampness in the junction boxes, cracked insulation, or a faulty pair of wires within the cable.

I have suffered similar problems in windy weather, particularly when there was driving rain. Several years ago, I lost voice and broadband services completely, so BT Openreach engineers had to attend and check all of the wires between the cabinet and my home. They identified and repaired:

1. a fractured pair of wires, where the cable was rubbing against the branches of a tree
2. damp and corroded terminals in two of the junction boxes

Two evenings ago, my TP-Link router dropped synchronisation every a few minutes. However, voice calls were OK. The weather was appalling, with strong winds and driving rain. When I telephoned the TalkTalk faults service, they downgraded my synchronisation mode from ADSL2+ to G.DMT, which stabilised my broadband connection. However, download speed dropped from 15 Mbps to less than 8 Mbps. The following morning, the wind had subsided and I was able to reset my router synchronisation to ADSL2+. Download speeds reverted to 15 Mbps.

Your ISP should liaise with BT Openreach to investigate and repair any loss of service. The problem is persuading them to investigate intermittent faults. However, BT Openreach will need to weatherproof your connection, because it is unreasonable to expect anyone to accept loss of service, every time we suffer the effects of bad weather.

Not too sure if you was referring to me or not.

But our line leaves our house to our pole (via 30m of cable) then about 470m of cable from our pole to our PCP Cabinet then about 1.56km from there to our exchange.

We have had loads of issues on our line since the last few years, sadly like I have already said our issue is an intermittent fault due to it bad for a little while and then its all fine for a long time, then some heavy rail or heavy wind and its bad again.
Its not down long enough to report it and we don't really want to go down the long road of being handed a callout charge of £130 due to they cannot find any issues.

But yeah it could be the junction box on our pole due to its old and there was a time that it was found hanging off the pole full of water, we have also in the past 3 times now had a broken wire in our pair, resulting in having to be shifted to another pair.

*** update ***
Also it could also be in our cabinet, I know a couple of years ago a new PCP was placed a few feet for our old PCP, not too sure if any lines have been moved over yet.
Image of our cabinet(s)

Basically we had loads of issues on our line and so did some others on our cabinet, then one xmas I saw the new PCP Cabinet sitting there.
***************

Basically we are holding off reporting faults due to them being intermittent and also that we are due to have our FTTP to go live soon.

Image of one of our FibreDP in oue of our chambers

Fibre Drum Trailer that we had throughout July

We have basically had all the hardware since 2011 and they have only recently come back to finish stuff off.

So hopefully not long left to wait I hope.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Sat 21-Nov-15 16:44:25)

And yet again, we loose our connection twice, seems that either BT, Exchange or maybe the cable routing is having connection issues.

Here is our WAN Logs (read from bottom upwards):

03:11:10, 25 Nov. (368644.520000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
03:11:09, 25 Nov. (368644.120000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
03:11:09, 25 Nov. (368644.120000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
03:11:07, 25 Nov. (368641.670000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
03:11:07, 25 Nov. (368641.670000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
03:11:06, 25 Nov. (368640.930000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
03:11:06, 25 Nov. (368640.930000) WAN operating mode is DSL
03:11:06, 25 Nov. (368640.930000) Last WAN operating mode was DSL
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.190000) PPPoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:38
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.180000) CHAP authentication successful
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.100000) CHAP Receive Challenge
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.100000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.100000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.090000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.090000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368639.090000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
03:11:04, 25 Nov. (368638.950000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
03:11:01, 25 Nov. (368635.550000) ETHoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:35
03:11:01, 25 Nov. (368635.550000) DSL is up
03:10:59, 25 Nov. (368634.230000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.10 dB downstream
03:10:58, 25 Nov. (368633.220000) DSL line rate: 1092 Kbps upstream, 6104 Kbps downstream
03:09:23, 25 Nov. (368537.900000) DSL is down after 43 minutes uptime
03:09:23, 25 Nov. (368537.900000) ETHoA is down after 43 minutes uptime
03:08:52, 25 Nov. (368507.100000) PPPoA is down after 42 minutes uptime [Disconnected]
03:08:50, 25 Nov. (368504.940000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]
02:26:27, 25 Nov. (365961.840000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration ACK
02:26:27, 25 Nov. (365961.330000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:27, 25 Nov. (365961.330000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration NAK
02:26:24, 25 Nov. (365958.780000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration ACK
02:26:24, 25 Nov. (365958.780000) PPP IPCP Receive Configuration Request
02:26:23, 25 Nov. (365957.880000) PPP IPCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:23, 25 Nov. (365957.880000) WAN operating mode is DSL
02:26:23, 25 Nov. (365957.880000) Last WAN operating mode was DSL
02:26:21, 25 Nov. (365956.140000) PPPoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:38
02:26:21, 25 Nov. (365956.120000) CHAP authentication successful
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.850000) CHAP Receive Challenge
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.850000) Starting CHAP authentication with peer
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.850000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration ACK
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.830000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.830000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Reject
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.830000) PPP LCP Send Configuration ACK
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.830000) PPP LCP Receive Configuration Request
02:26:18, 25 Nov. (365952.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:15, 25 Nov. (365949.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:12, 25 Nov. (365946.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:09, 25 Nov. (365943.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:06, 25 Nov. (365940.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:03, 25 Nov. (365937.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:26:00, 25 Nov. (365934.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:25:57, 25 Nov. (365931.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:25:54, 25 Nov. (365928.700000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:25:50, 25 Nov. (365925.250000) ETHoA is up - VPI: 0, VCI:35
02:25:50, 25 Nov. (365925.250000) DSL is up
02:25:49, 25 Nov. (365923.930000) DSL noise margin: 5.90 dB upstream, 6.00 dB downstream
02:25:48, 25 Nov. (365922.800000) DSL line rate: 1100 Kbps upstream, 6133 Kbps downstream
02:22:25, 25 Nov. (365720.180000) DSL is down after 6093 minutes uptime
02:22:25, 25 Nov. (365720.180000) ETHoA is down after 6093 minutes uptime
02:22:02, 25 Nov. (365696.470000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:59, 25 Nov. (365693.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:56, 25 Nov. (365690.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:53, 25 Nov. (365687.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:50, 25 Nov. (365684.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:47, 25 Nov. (365681.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:44, 25 Nov. (365678.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:41, 25 Nov. (365675.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:38, 25 Nov. (365672.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:21:35, 25 Nov. (365669.460000) PPP LCP Send Configuration Request
02:20:55, 25 Nov. (365630.080000) PPPoA is down after 6091 minutes uptime [Disconnected]
02:20:53, 25 Nov. (365627.980000) PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]

Going by the following two lines it seems it might possibly be an external issue:
PPPoA is down after X minutes uptime [Disconnected]
PPP LCP Send Termination Request [Peer not responding]

These two times our phone line seemed fine unless I picked up the phone exactly as its started working twice.

Paul

Edited by PaulKirby (Wed 25-Nov-15 04:47:16)