Problems with getting line repaired + no master socket

Further to my other post we've been having major issues with our line.

BB speed has halved in the past 2 weeks and as soon as the rain starts, the line becomes really crackly and the router is up and down like a yo yo. SNR of 16dB + if the line manages to connect at 8Mb and 11ish at 4Mb

We don't have a master socket in the house, just 3 extensions linking back to an old GPO junction box by the front door.

Had a OR eng come out before Xmas. He tested from the nearest phone in the house and he said it was was OK (weather was calm and sunny that day). He said get a new fibre package from anyone and they'd install a new cable from the pole and master socket as standard.

When I asked Zen about this the guy was very surprised and said they wouldn't and furthermore was v surprised the eng tested off a slave socket.

So we have a duff line that needs resolving.

OR eng said that could be resolved by getting a new fibre install
1 ISP said otherwise

Who's right?

When you have noise on your line, you should report it as a voice fault and keep doing it. If you're lucky,at some stage an engineer will replace your master socket/junction box with a new one and/or do something with the cable.

If ordering fibre and you get an engineer install (from any ISP) then yes, BT should fit a new master socket - I can't comment on a new cable though (that is less likely)

If its a self install than an engineer generally doesn't visit your property

Edited by gt94sss2 (Thu 31-Dec-15 18:56:32)

One of your extensions will be an old style master. See these pictures.

If you open them up you can tell which.

The most likely are the LJ 2/1A which is the master, see the small cylindrical capacitor at the top, and two of LJ 2/3A next to it without the capacitor.

If not those two, look through that gallery for what you have. The master is always the one with the capacitor.

As has been said, you would need an engineer install, not a self-install. On an engineer install the master will be replaced with a modern one with a filtered faceplate fitted. The modem or modem/router has to be connected to that socket.

If you find the master isn't the one you are already using and you want to continue using that one, (I advise you to check before doing anything else), you need either to arrange with the chosen ISP for a Data Extension Kit/Home Wiring Solution to be fitted, or to sweet-talk the engineer to install the new master where you want it and put the extension socket where the current master is. That's assuming you want one there.

If the nearest cab is the one you are fed from then you shouldn't lose any FTTC speed from this. To check that, put your address into the address option of this checker, (don't use the pure postcode one!), check the line above the table for the cabinet number. Then go and check the number on your phone cabinet. Not the FTTC cabinet.

The line from the pole will only be replaced if it is damaged, and even then it may be a separate later job.

Edited by RobertoS (Thu 31-Dec-15 19:14:14)

Thanks very much guys

I can't remember which one of the 3 sockets is the master but the original incoming cabling is terminated at another junction box and then the 3 sockets are starred off from there.

The outside wiring runs along the house at 1st floor height and it'd be perfect to run this in to the 1st floor landing for a new master. OR eng said the existing cabling is likely to be better quality than their new copper plated steel stuff.

To summarise

Existing phone line really isn't well
I'd like a new master socket at a better location
I don't really want to pay for a new / replacement line from the pole
I'm recording quiet line tests when the line goes bad

So can I get this fixed by chasing BT to repair the line as per gt94sss2 and then sweet talking the OR eng on the day? (As it was near Xmas I suspect the prev eng wanted an easy day on the original visit)

P.S the nearest cab matches that checker though I'd have thought they'd have managed something better than using a permanent marker to identify it!

P.P.S Don't you guys have anything better to do on NYE?!

In reply to a post by M1ke_a:

Thanks very much P.P.S Don't you guys have anything better to do on NYE?!

"You are held in a queue. Your posts are important to us. You will be answered as soon as possible, please hold".

It's more fun than the TV .

I'm about to microwave a Sainsbury's Chicken Tikka Biryani - not had one from them before.

Mrs A is about to pop a Sainsos pizza in the oven

Happy New Year!

I don't think getting a master etc will resolve the issues you have where it all messes up during the rain. That issue is likely to be external.

Will getting fibre result in a new line being installed. No, reality is they may send out a new router via the post, if your old one doesn't already support fibre. You will plug that in somewhere and off you go. Manned installs are a general thing of the past on most ISPs.

I would raise an issue with the voice side being crackly multiple times to the provider of the landline, don't mention anything else. When an engineer comes, he may fix the setup although the main thing would be to fix the crackling line before touching the setup.

& ps I had a takeaway pizza, feeling posh

Thanks. I'll get back onto BT and nag them to fix the line. Repositioning the (new) master would be a very easy job and the nearest pole is less than 10m. Probably about 2 hours of work.

When an engineer works at a house without an NTE5 he is supposed to install one free.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

I'm about to microwave a Sainsbury's Chicken Tikka Biryani - not had one from them before.

Probably made by NOON - one of the better quality pre-packed/chilled Indian meals. However, they are now owned by Kerry Foods of Ireland!

Another Eng booked for Monday morning. Much as I'm fed up with this rubbish weather, I don't want it to go away before they repair / replace

Hi M1ke

The issues you are having mirror mine exactly. I have been having issues with my telephone line since we started having the bad weather at the end of November.

I'm on a fibre connection which prior to the bad weather I was getting 38mb download and 1.7mb upload which I was very happy with. During the bad weather my connection would drop completely and when it returned I got 3mb / 0.5 which was worse than my previous ADSL connection.
To cut a long story short despite Talktalk reporting the isue to Openreach the fault remains and whenever the weather is bad I lose my broadband. In the bad weather I can see the telephone line to my house swing in the wind at the same time I get a red light on my router saying my connection is down. Despite informiing this to the Openreach engineer who visited (when the weather was okay) he could trace no fault on the line.
I have yet again reported the fault to Talktalk but I'm not holding out much hope that the Openreach Engineer will note my observations and get up the telegraph pole and actually check the connections to my house.
Good luck in getting your landline repaired.
Graham

Thanks Graham. I haven't even bothered putting this through Talktalk because they are completely incompetent ( I won't bore you with the catalogue of issues I have with them)

I've got various quiet line recordings and BT's "an engineer has been booked" msg is on the answerphone though it's really difficult to make it out.

Let's see what Monday brings

Zen quoted £70 for another line but couldn't guarantee that that wouldn't be presented on the same cabling.

In reply to a post by M1ke_a:

Thanks very much guys

I can't remember which one of the 3 sockets is the master but the original incoming cabling is terminated at another junction box and then the 3 sockets are starred off from there.

The outside wiring runs along the house at 1st floor height and it'd be perfect to run this in to the 1st floor landing for a new master. OR eng said the existing cabling is likely to be better quality than their new copper plated steel stuff.

To summarise

Existing phone line really isn't well
I'd like a new master socket at a better location
I don't really want to pay for a new / replacement line from the pole
I'm recording quiet line tests when the line goes bad

So can I get this fixed by chasing BT to repair the line as per gt94sss2 and then sweet talking the OR eng on the day? (As it was near Xmas I suspect the prev eng wanted an easy day on the original visit)

P.S the nearest cab matches that checker though I'd have thought they'd have managed something better than using a permanent marker to identify it!

P.P.S Don't you guys have anything better to do on NYE?!

I suffered similar problems several years ago.

The telephone cabling to my house includes overhead wires, which reach the property via a series of telephone poles. The cabling used to terminate in an old-style BT junction box, screwed inside one of the window frames. The master socket and extension sockets were star wired, with extension wires that ran around the outside of the house. BT had installed this wiring in the 1970s, when the house was built.

High winds and driving rain were causing intermittent problems with my voice and broadband services, so I reported the problem to TalkTalk on many occasions. OR engineers attended repeatedly but each time, the weather had improved so they did not detect any fault. I insisted eventually that they examine all of the overhead wires and junctions between the cabinet and my home.

It transpired that BT's wiring was OK - until it reached my home. However, the original installers had used internal quality cable for the extension sockets, even though the wires were stapled to an outside wall. After 40 years' exposure to sun and rain, the plastic insulation had cracked. So every time it rained, water penetrated the cable and caused a short circuit.

BT Openreach removed the cracked extension wiring and installed a new NTE5 master socket. However, I had to run new wires inside the house to each extension socket. To add insult to injury, TalkTalk charged me for the engineer's visit, because even though the cracked wiring had been installed by BT and was outside the house, the crack was located AFTER the junction box.

In reply to a post by bob_lucas:

BT Openreach removed the cracked extension wiring and installed a new NTE5 master socket. However, I had to run new wires inside the house to each extension socket. To add insult to injury, TalkTalk charged me for the engineer's visit, because even though the cracked wiring had been installed by BT and was outside the house, the crack was located AFTER the junction box.

Well who would you expect to pay for the repair? If it had failed after a year or two, then you might have a claim under a guarantee, after that then no. If you paid ongoing rental for that installation, then you would have a claim but you did not. So, you have to accept responsibility for your property.


And it would not have been a BT installation in the 1970s - BT was only formed in 1981.

Edited by MHC (Sat 02-Jan-16 21:35:31)

We are told that wiring put in by the GPO or BT has got nowt to do with OpenReach . We are also told to put in a TRC if there is no NTE5 , fair or not thats the way it is.

In reply to a post by btbert:

We are told that wiring put in by the GPO or BT has got nowt to do with OpenReach .

How do they access the manholes with GPO or BT covers on them then?

Sorry i ment home wiring not the U/G or O/H network.

Yeah, the rules seem to change don't they

Thanks Bob

Internal wiring was redone around 15 years ago but I'm happy to refresh into a new NTE connection.

In the best law of Sod, as at 8:15 Mon the line sounds much better though my router is showing SNR 33dB and a 3Mb connection.

I hope the eng arrives soon and is in an obliging mood

How long since you did a reconnection? Don't do several close together, but doing one is the only way to increase the speed once noise has gone.

In reply to a post by M1ke_a:

Thanks Bob

Internal wiring was redone around 15 years ago but I'm happy to refresh into a new NTE connection.

In the best law of Sod, as at 8:15 Mon the line sounds much better though my router is showing SNR 33dB and a 3Mb connection.

I hope the eng arrives soon and is in an obliging mood

In the meantime, it will do not harm for you to inspect the wiring that passes around the exterior of your property. In my case, the insulation had cracked, which caused a minor short circuit in wet weather. The engineer's test equipment could not identify the defect, when the weather was dry - so a physical inspection was the only solution.

Yay

We've now got a whole new installation from the pole.

Having replaced the whole cable run there was quite a corroded section, possibly around where the cable left the building on the support wire.

Lovely quiet line now and my router is showing no HEC errors at all. SNR and connection speeds still aren't great but I'll let the router settle for a day or so.

Thumbs up for old skool OR engineers

Plus an NTE5 or not?

Thumbs up for old skool OR engineers

What a great pity their employers fail to see the value in giving them the time and support to do their jobs as their employees know it should be done. 'Stats and be damned' is the surely the motto of a company on a slow ride to ruin.

Yep with a single phone socket.

Now has a microfilter with the router and one cordless phone plugged in. Just need to decide on whether to rewire the internal sockets. Replacing the old cordless phones with a trio of dects will be the easiest option.

New Q

The connection rate is still 3Mb. Is there a chance my connection has been detuned down to something stable and that it will automagically pick up again? I really don't want to have this conversation with TalkTalk..........

[edit]

@ Zarjaz Yeah these two chaps had been doing this for a long time. We had various discussions around "corporate efficiencies", doing things on the cheap, the decline of western civilisation etc etc

Edited by deleted (Mon 04-Jan-16 15:17:10)

The connection rate is still 3Mb. Is there a chance my connection has been detuned down to something stable and that it will automagically pick up again?

Does the downstream SNR now look high ?

There is a good chance it has been capped by the CP, so maybe you will have to be brave and ring them.

Yep still around 33dB. My Bipac 7800DX says 11.6Mbps attainable with a Rate of 3Mbps. HEC errors were previously running in the millions

So their line monitoring kit, or in fact someone has hard pinned the high SNR to try and stabilise the previous flakey performance. TT need to take this of for you and get it reset to 6db.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

The connection rate is still 3Mb. Is there a chance my connection has been detuned down to something stable and that it will automagically pick up again?

Does the downstream SNR now look high ?

There is a good chance it has been capped by the CP, so maybe you will have to be brave and ring them.

As an alternate to telephoning TalkTalk support in India, you could try posting on their on-line forums, which are monitored by executives based in the UK. You might have to wait a few days for a response. However, the forum team have the ability to tweak your broadband configuration.

]

Just tweeted them as I'm still waiting a call back to have My Account set back to the correct email. Currently been 4 days for the 1 - 2 day call back. - You can only wonder at a company that can take 2 days to change one address field.

So very true and very sad, the stats boys will ruin OR in the end.

How much of this monitoring and statistical analysis is actually being done to please OFCOM?

How much to prove that OR does not favour BT?
How much to show that costs are realistic?
How much to prove that OR is being efficient?

&c &c &c

How many tens of millions could be saved by stopping the interference with operations by the regulator? Those who say OFCOM is keeping prices down, is not living in the real world - all the work that OR and other BT subsidiaries undertake probably adds to every customer bill.

Just lost an hour of my life on TT Live chat

Highlights include

* Not reading provided information

* Asking what OS I was on. Logic being if he reset my connection, our chat session might be lost. Err, reseting my internet link will kill all connected clients so what difference would the OS make?

* Has been escalated to 'snr engineers' to reprofile. They will revert in 24 - 48 hours.......................

Good job I currently have the time to waste with these clowns

As far as I can see it's all a huge turd polishing exercise.

From what I can glean many large businesses have adopted similar practices.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

As far as I can see it's all a huge turd polishing exercise.

You can't polish them but you can roll them in glitter!

As soon as I get access into my account and a decent connection, I'll be saying goodbye to TT

Just checked my router and SNR 7.1dB and 17Mbps downstream. Welcome back to the 21st Century.

Now TalkTalk, about accessing my account...................... :-|