Can a phone line and internet be on a differant cabinet?

Hi all, So all my neighbours have 40 meg but I can only get 3.2 meg!! Having spent most of Feb and March on the phone to BT I am now told by an Open reach engineer that my broadband is connected to a differant cabinet to my phone, and it is 2.5 miles away?
He passed on the details what is required to get it rerouted but open reach will not do it due to cost! Can this be the case? I asked for a new line as this in my opinion should sort the problem but was told that this is not the case. I have now not had broadband for over 3 weeks due to BT...
Can any one please offer any advice, I am going insane over this as we don't get 3 or 4 g neither... Thanks in advance Marty

Yes, if they are on different lines. Can you go to the checker: http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome and post te details for BOTH lines.

Given the speed, do you have an ADSLx based service or a Faster Broadband VDSL service? If they are on different lines then why not move tfe service to the 'phone line?

If you have two lines (one for phone, one for broadband) then yes they could conceivably go through different cabinets but it'd be a bit unusual. I can only see it happening if the second line was installed sometime after the first one. Most properties are built with multiple lines so I wouldn't think it common for BT to have to lay new cable just for a second line.

Are you sure the engineer didn't just mean that you were on a different cabinet to your neighbour? That's still going to be relatively uncommon but is probably more likely than your property having two lines fed from two different cabinets.

So all in all: It's possible, but unusual.

I think everyone has misunderstood the post. DO NOT place an order for a new line, that's not required.

Sounds like the phone line is physically connected to one cabinet but the broadband has mistakenly been routed to a DSLAM connected to another cabinet.

Say for example the telephone pole (DP) is associated with cabinet 8, that's where the wires are going to. So when FTTC is ordered it needs to be routed to the DSLAM paired with cabinet 8. In this case although the DP is connected to cabinet 8, unfortunately the broadband has been routed to the DSLAM next to cabinet 3.

What needs to happen is the engineer should have done a live update on the system to show the house is indeed connected to cabinet 8. Then a cease needs to be done on the existing FTTC order. A new order needs to be requested for FTTC and it will be built, correctly, to cabinet 8.

This happens occasionally, often when at some point the telephone number in question moved from one cabinet to another but the routing wasn't updated on the system. It can also just happen for reasons unknown.

Edited by deleted (Thu 24-Mar-16 08:48:43)

MHC, thanks for the info. Been on the checker a number of times and it shows what I thought, 4 Meg at best - copper.

What are the actual results? Do they mention fibre at all?


Can you also post those of a neighbour.

Edited by MHC (Thu 24-Mar-16 09:19:54)

So, how will teh broadband be delivered? A link from "Cab3" to "Cab8"

Andrue, I think we have just the one line. Up to 3 months ago I was on cabinet 3 - 2.5 miles away but they have managed to move us to cabinet 1 which is 200 metres away. This has FFTC which my neighbours' - 40 meg. I believe it all to be about rerouting, but if they have done phone why not broad band.....
I feel I have some way to go yet to get BT and Openreach to rectify it.
Thanks again. M

In reply to a post by MHC:

So, how will teh broadband be delivered? A link from "Cab3" to "Cab8"

I think what Icarus is saying is simply that the wrong cabinet has been enabled. So there's a line card in a DSLAM somewhere wondering where the modem is.Back in the days of engineer install it would presumably have been caught but in these days of self-install and with modems being dual VDSL/ADSL I can see how no-one might realise. Although if it were me I'd have designed the system to flag up a newly enabled line card that if it didn't achieve sync within 48 hours.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

Up to 3 months ago I was on cabinet 3 - 2.5 miles away but they have managed to move us to cabinet 1 which is 200 metres away.

Ah, this adds credence to what Icarus has posted. Openreach have just enabled a linecard in the wrong cabinet. If your line has just been relocated it makes even more sense.

The OP at one point says he is getting "3.2meg" - that suggests an ADSL service.

Icaras, you have nailed it! What you have described is what has happened....

My phone line was moved at some point in the last 3 months from (cabinet 3) 2.5 miles away to my local one 200m away (cabinet 1). Then 3 weeks ago my 3 meg internet stopped working. I guess this is when they moved the line but didn't sort the broadband.

The engineer 2 weeks ago did speak to openreach - (rerouting I think) in front of me and even told them what the new details needed to be for the broadband. I took a photo of his findings.
MDF
PCP
E
D
DP
PR
I have not input the numbers but I obviously have them.

BT will get me back on broadband, back to copper next week, 30 days since they took me off.

Where do I go from here???

Thank you - We are getting there....

In reply to a post by MHC:

The OP at one point says he is getting "3.2meg" - that suggests an ADSL service.

Yes. I'm not sure what you're querying here.

In effect we think that the OP has two lines attributed to their property. One that is connected - going through a new cabinet and one that is not connected going to the old cabinet.

It looks like openreach have provisioned FTTC on the unconnected line. It's easy to see how they could enable a line card then consider the job complete - the engineer might just assume that the customer's modem is switched off so lack of sync means nothing. It's also not too hard to understand why the OP still has ADSL. Who/whatever was supposed to disable it might have been puzzled not to find an active ADSL line card in the exchange but possibly just shrugged it off as unimportant.

It seems easy enough to understand what's happened once you realise that openreach relocated the line prior to the FTTC order placement. Of course a properly run company would have correctly updated its records. But how many regulars here find it hard to imagine openreach getting confused when a line moves to a different cabinet?

Edited by Andrue (Thu 24-Mar-16 10:12:37)

Openreach have made a nice little mess of your connection then by the sounds of it....

So they've basically moved your D side to a new PCP (Cab) but not updated the E side pair to the exchange correctly, meaning your phone has been transferred but they've forgot broadband (typical of Openreach)

Once they fix your Broadband and get all the details in the system for your lines connections you should then be able to upgrade to faster services like your neighbours...

Hopefully Openreach don't fudge it though and ut you back on your old cabinet.

I assume you're as ADSL customer at the moment, if your not then the same as above sort of applies, just means your broadband connection remains at the old cabinet and needs transferring to new cab.

It might be easier to understand if the OP was to respond to questions asked and provide relevant information - such ADSL or VDSL, DSLChecker info with cabinet numbers and other data.

I had a problem where my order for FTTC couldn't be fulfilled, because they kept allocating a port in the wrong FTTC cabinet. It turns out that a surveyor checked my line, but put the wrong cabinet number into the records as part of my initial order.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

My phone line was moved at some point in the last 3 months from (cabinet 3) 2.5 miles away to my local one 200m away (cabinet 1).

Remember that there are two parts to the process...

- A physical one, where the wires for your line are moved around to route via cabinet 1;

- A virtual one, where Openreach's database records need to be updated. There are separate records for your address and for your phone line, which can get out of sync.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

Then 3 weeks ago my 3 meg internet stopped working. I guess this is when they moved the line but didn't sort the broadband.

This is a bit confused. When everything is coming down one single phone line, you cannot separate out the "phone line" service from the "broadband" service.

Question: What type of "3 meg internet" is your broadband service? Was it an ADSL one, based in the exchange (sold as "up to 8Mbps" or as "up to 17Mbps", depending on the hardware in the exchange)? Or was it a "fibre broadband" one, FTTC, using the FTTC cabinet at your old PCP cabinet (cab 3)?

I can understand your old broadband service stopping entirely if it was on the old PCP (and its FTTC twin). If your service was ADSL exchange-based, I'd expect a break in service, but for it to then resync.

It sounds like you used to have an FTTC "fibre broadband" connection on the old PCP.

If that's true, then your issue sounds like one I've seen on here, with a guy based in Northern Ireland, where they moved his (FTTC) line to a new cabinet, and mucked up the speed. His issue went to the top-level complaints within TalkTalk, and they still couldn't sort it out, with months of trying. IIRC, he moved to AAISP, and they sorted things out in days.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

The engineer 2 weeks ago did speak to openreach - (rerouting I think) in front of me and even told them what the new details needed to be for the broadband. I took a photo of his findings.
MDF
PCP
E
D
DP
PR
I have not input the numbers but I obviously have them.

I had a couple of different engineers do this to help sort out my problem. The process appears to be known as a "pair prove", where the engineer figures out exactly what connection points are being used on the MDF, in the PCP, and in the DP. I ended up with similar-looking numbers.

The first attempt to get the records changed did not work. The second attempt did work, with the records (IIRC, on something called ROSE) being updated.

Once the records were updated internally, it took a couple of days for the new data to be visible in the BTW online checker for my address. It then took a couple of days for the BTW online checker to be updated for my phone line.

End-to-end, it took around 3 months to get the database sorted out ... to the state that a viable FTTC order could be placed.

In the middle of this, I got sick of waiting for a broadband connection of any type, so my ISP ordered a plain ADSL connection on the line (which went ahead quickly and smoothly) until we could get the records changed properly.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

BT will get me back on broadband, back to copper next week, 30 days since they took me off.

Are they putting you back onto exchange-based ADSL broadband? It sounds like it.

In reply to a post by Martyjfield:

Where do I go from here???

Keep watching the BTW checker here, for changes in your address records:
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Addres...
and here, for changes in your phone number records:
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/

The best step I took was to get a single named contact in my ISP dealing with my issue. I didn't have to keep explaining the whole sequence of foul-ups to someone new.

Assuming they are putting you back on ADSL for now, your ISP will need to put an order through for FTTC, and probably then escalate the issue through the ISP<->BT management system to get the records updated.

The ordering system only allows one thing to be done at a time, so I suspect your ISP will have to go through a sequence like this with BT:
- Cancel FTTC.
- Wait for FTTC cancellation to complete.
- Order ADSL.
- Wait for ADSL order to complete.
- Trigger records update, probably by ordering FTTC, and escalating within BT.
- Engineering appointment to "pair prove".
- Wait for records to update.
- Cancel FTTC order (because it has the wrong records).
- Order FTTC again (it will attach the new records).

What I do remember, from my fiasco, is that the FTTC order needed to be cancelled and re-placed after the records updated, because the order inherits a copy of the records as they stand at the time the order is placed.

To me this sounds like a scenario I am familiar with, i.e. new extra cabinet for long line cluster but the move as far as the checker (and sometimes physical reality) is a little messed up.

Have fed into Openreach machine a few like this with a reasonable success rate on getting them fixed.

Best thing to do is email me Tuesday (i.e. after holiday) and include your details and link to this thread and will do a few checks first and then pester the right bits of Openreach.

Nope, he doesn't have two lines. That's not possible.

It's probably just what I've described. We see it often enough, it isn't completely obscure. Cabinet change for some reason, maybe a house move or like MrSaffron says a new cabinet for FTTC has gone in at some point. But the routing hasn't been updated on the system to reflect this. When the FTTC order is placed it uses the routing on the system.

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Nope, he doesn't have two lines. That's not possible.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You're just repeating what I posted!

When I wrote 'In effect we think that the OP has two lines attributed to their property.' do you not know what the phrase 'in effect' and the word 'attributed' mean? I did not say that the OP had two lines. And did you miss the bit at the end of my post 'Of course a properly run company would have correctly updated its records''.

That's the same thing that you just posted back at me!

Edited by Andrue (Tue 29-Mar-16 21:21:26)

I'm not trying to be obtuse at all no!

Where are the two lines "in effect attributed" though? Physically the line is going to one cabinet, but on the system it's going to another. It's not like there's some kind of duplicate line listed on the Openreach systems which is more what you're describing.

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by Icaras:

Nope, he doesn't have two lines. That's not possible.

Are you being deliberately obtuse? You're just repeating what I posted!

When I wrote 'In effect we think that the OP has two lines attributed to their property.' do you not know what the phrase 'in effect' and the word 'attributed' mean? I did not say that the OP had two lines. And did you miss the bit at the end of my post 'Of course a properly run company would have correctly updated its records''.

That's the same thing that you just posted back at me!

Not very polite are you ... Having good manners costs nothing.

You are entitled to that opinion, but it is undeniable that he was right in terms of the facts. His original post was contradicted by Icaras, who then in effect repeated it.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

You are entitled to that opinion, but it is undeniable that he was right in terms of the facts. His original post was contradicted by Icaras, who then in effect repeated it.

This is ridiculous! My first post in this thread was correct!

Andrue then agreed with me!

His first post was going on about having two lines to the house, one for broadband and one for phone. Read it again! I was right from my very first post and I didn't repeat anyone.

Hi MrSaffron,
Thanks for your advice and offer to look in to my problem.
BT did get me back on line, 5 days after they agreed to return me back to Copper, I guess that is ADSL. I was without broad band for 35 days in total, it was murder.

Anyway I'm happy that I have about 6 Meg now, but I still cannot apply for Fibre as the companies, BT, EE, etc. insist it is not available to me.
As previously mentioned my neighbours, left and right of me get 40 meg.

My phone number DSL shows speeds up 8 meg
Neighbours number - shows 30 - 50 Meg - both of us served by cabinet 1, I was on cab 3 up to 6 weeks ago.

Where do I go from now? Any help and advice is greatly appreciated in advance.

Regards, Marty

Edited by deleted (Sun 10-Apr-16 14:58:41)

www.dslchecker.bt.com isn't returning any data for your number

Thanks for all of the info, really appreciated. Now back on line for the last 6 days with 6 Meg, copper ADSL I guess.
I have approached BT, and EE to ask for Fibre but they insist that it is not available.
Do you think there is a time frame after being reconnected to Broadband, before the system updates to show Fibre available. Can't seem to upload the picture of my DSL checker but it shows max of 8 meg. No FTTC available, but my 2 neighbours shows that they have the option. We are both on cab 1.??

Cheers Marty

Post deleted by Martyjfield

It's not a good idea to post your landline and mobile phone numbers on a public forum that google indexes and can serve up as a result to third-party enquires about broadband.

As for also posting a neighbour's number, geez!!!!!

You can edit for up to 12 hours from posting. I suggest you do so. Even if your number isn't, as suggested by BatBoy and it seems to me may be LLU?

Not a good idea to post phone nos on public forum. Suggest you edit/remove them ASAP. Use PMs for such info

Especially a neighbour's, in his previous post.

Great point, getting carried away......

Checkers should update 2 to 3 days after any physical work to the line, so if things are not sorted out after 6 days then system needs a prod.

So possibly time to email me with the salient details in the week and will pester the right people.