Line switch / wiring question

Currently have a BT line but getting Virgin installed next month. The extensions and alarm system are wired into the back of the BT master socket. When we switch to Virgin I guess the default would be for the engineer to move the extensions and alarm to the new virgin phone socket? If we then switch back to BT then we'd presumably have to get someone out to undo this, surely there's a limited number of times you can do this before you've cut the wires so many times there's none left?

One better would be for the Virgin line to go to the existing BT 66b, connect their line to the current BT master and install a new virgin socket to which the BT line would be connected, that way if we switch in future it's just swapping the pairs over in the external box.

Even better would be to have a switch in the BT 66B so I can switch which line goes to the BT Master socket literally at the flick of a switch. The closest I could see to this was a BT Switch 2A, but can't find a modern version of this?

Given this must be a fairly common thing for people to have when switching between providers, I'm surprised I couldn't find a decent solution to the problem. Any suggestions? Or is wiring up my own DPDT switch in the BT 66B the best option? Any issues (other than messing with BT wiring not being allowed) with going down this route?

Any advice / suggestions appreciated

Edited by deleted (Sat 27-Aug-16 21:24:03)

You have missed the salient point. The 66 is Openreach's network, as is the wiring beyond up to the NTE.

Also if you went ahead with your ill considered plan, any switch would have to be robust and weather proof.

I have, rather too often, been to installs where Virgin have run a cable from their feed to the 66 leaving the Openreach line dis. If it had been left connected and a separate feed run in as is correct then the services could be run/switched between/run at the same time with no external switching at all.

Your issue with the extension wire becoming too short is easily fixed by extending the wires as and when.

Thanks for the reply,

I'm not sure i'd describe my plan as ill considered, it seems more in-considered for two suppliers to not consider the fact that people are likely to want to switch between them.

Presumably on the installs where Virgin have disconnected the openreach line it's been chargeable to the customer to reconnect?

But even if the Virgin line had been installed to a separate socket, the average user is still going to need a £130ish call out to move the extensions etc back over to the BT socket when switching back. So either way the customers end up paying a lot more than would be necessary to switch provider than they would do if a bit of common sense was used.

Am I missing something? Wouldn't an internal switch (like a modern BT 2A) make it easier and cheaper for people to switch providers, rather than need an engineer out each time?

The logical place to make the switch would be in the external box, rather than inside the property where it's more fiddly and more wires to change over each time

Edited by deleted (Sun 28-Aug-16 21:39:38)

In reply to a post by mjl123:

The logical place to make the switch would be in the external box, rather than inside the property where it's more fiddly and more wires to change over each time

The logical place is where the customer owned wiring terminates rather than where it's easiest to hack into competing provider's networks.

And that is a matter for Ofcom to consider in its new unified migration system

We own the wire coming out of the house into the external box. The electricians put it in when the house was built before we had any arrangements with BT or any other provider. While it's nice openreach will take responsibility for looking after it, it's not theirs.

I suspect you don't own the cable. I think it's more likely that the cable was installed by the developers to an Openreach (or, before them, BT) specification on the understanding that it would be adopted by BT on connection.

In your first post you claim to have a 'BT master socket' how can this be if , according to you, you own all the incoming cable ?

New build house 3 years ago, BT just attached the master socket to the existing wiring the electricians had put it when they built the house.

I don't remember anything in the contract stating the developer retained ownership of the wiring until such time that we took out a BT service, but I guess it's possible it was in there. Would seem odd tho, certainly nothing to indicate it was property of BT

I think you're confusing the "logical place" with the "best legal place".

I can't think of any reason why it would be technically better to change more wires over internally where it involves moving furniture and more fiddly, compared to swapping a pair in an easy to access junction box?

Presumably if you switch back to an Openreach based provider from Virgin then Openreach would charge for moving extensions etc back over to the Openreach master socket?

Nowhere seems to mention this through, but surely it's a fairly common cost of switching supplier that many people wouldn't consider?

Am i missing something? Or do people not move back that often?

Edited by deleted (Mon 29-Aug-16 21:38:32)

I suspect the point is moot. Once they put the master socket on the end then BT have effectively adopted it.

As for switching providers, it seems to me you need to have the Virgin socket put close to the BT socket and then have a junction box between the two - so its easier to rewrite that junction to either box when changing.

Either that or try to find an old fashioned BT extension kit, that had a plug-in passthrough adapter so could easily be switch between either socket.

Good idea with the separate junction box cheers . I'm surprised one with a built-in switch didn't come up when I was looking for solutions, but I guess a lot of people get an engineer out each time they switch (and don't switch that often)

Edited by deleted (Mon 29-Aug-16 21:59:59)

The developer's electricians do not install telephone cables for the good of their health. The developer is paid by Openreach to install their underground ductwork and internal wiring network to the NTE at a rate agreed by Openreach and the NHF per plot.

Wiring before the NTE is bought and paid for by Openreach and the householder does not have the right to authorise a competing network to hack into it.

Its not something that gets moaned about a lot, probably because multiple extensions is less needed in the days of cheap DECT handsets and some people actually when switching keep both services active for a while, to ensure no down time and do the extension wiring changes themselves.

Do Virgin not use coax these days for the incoming line?

Nope, still a twisted copper pair alongside the coax

Which means an inspection of the estate/build was done prior to adoption of the prior installation into the BT Openreach realm of responsibility and the builder getting paid for the work they had done.

Ah ok, never had Virgin so not seen an actual install.

When I moved from BT to Virgin I had them put their phone socket next to the BT master socket. My extension wiring terminates in a junction box next to them and has a short patch cable with a BT plug so that I can easily plug the extensions into either BT or Virgin. Virgin did want to connect their line direct to the BT master socket but I wouldn't let them, I insisted on a separate Virgin phone socket. I assume they would have left the BT cable unterminated!

And probably cut the lead in at the entry point just to make sure