Fraudulent phone calls about my "BT Internet connection"

I've had two phone calls today with INTERNATIONAL caller ID about my "BT Internet connection". As we don't use any BT Internet products, it's clearly fraudulent. That sort of cold call where they didn't really seem to know my name would be highly suspect even if we did use BT Broadband or BT Infinity - I'd ask for the department I need to contact, then hang up and call them on a number found on an old bill or their web site, checking that the line has cleared down from the previous call.

When I told the callers, who had Indian accents, that the call was fraudulent, they hung up straight away.


Has anyone else had a similar call today?

Yes, well yesterday. The number that called me was 0208 833 3666. Well known to google.

I played along for a while but could not be bothered to go to my computer, so he gave up and said he would call back. He had an Indian accent. Not unlike many of the BT people I have spoken to.

It's usually Windows Support.

Never had one but would like to just to play along for a laugh

In reply to a post by bobble_bob:

Never had one but would like to just to play along for a laugh

I've done that before; I installed TeamViewer at their instruction (in a virtual machine of course). They spent a while trying to convince me my PC was sick, and that I should pay them £320 for a technical support subscription so they could look after it.

It's nothing short of fraud of course, the PC was fine and they were just lying to get me to buy a technical support subscription. But since they are based in India, using UK telephone numbers via Skype, they seem to be untouchable.

I had 2 the other day as well.

Usually we get a call every so often from them.

Another reason ISP's support needs to be brought back to UK.

In reply to a post by bowdon:

Another reason ISP's support needs to be brought back to UK.

That won't stop people in India ringing people up in the UK. And they don't usually pretend to be from the ISP, it's usually "Windows Technical Support".

New boilers, new windows, new roofs your PPI muppets oh and my windows needs upgrading blah blah

TPS is useless as they originate from abroad.

Yes to your original question.

In reply to a post by derekdel:

New boilers

"Now that winter is here..." - in the middle of summer, in >25 degreesC. AARGHHHH!

I mostly originate calls on my mobile, but the vast majority who want to call me will do so on my landline number. TPS doesn't help much, as the calls themselves come from outside the EU and linking the calls back to EU organisations is almost impossible. Those outfits generating and selling 'qualified leads' via unwanted cold calling (rather than being outright fraud attempts) are sufficiently remote from the users of those leads to create a fair degree of plausible deniability.

I don't think I'd lose anything important by blocking calls with INTERNATIONAL caller ID. Unfortunately, the vast majority of this garbage has unavailable caller ID and, as calls from the hospital and the GP surgery also have unavailable caller ID (so as not to reveal to anyone else that they have called), I can't block those calls.

I find they come in waves. Not had any for a while, then it'll be 2 or 3 a day for a while. Windows Support, Technical Department, etc, etc - even one claiming to be from TPS!
My wife always does the full little old lady bit and denies any knowledge of any computer. If they say they're Windows Support I talk about double glazing until I get bored and become extremely rude.
Sometimes I ask them if their mothers are proud of them - they promptly hang up.

Worryingly, the ones claiming to be from BT seem to know the account number.

I would get these calls regularly.
" Hi Sir, [Indian accent] I'm from BT, you have a problem with your computer/internet and I am calling so we can fix it"

I would always just hang up, but they became so regular last time they rang I decided to play along.

"Oh no", I said "How can I fix it?"

"Do not worry Sir, turn on your computer"
"Now press ctrl & alt ... Sir"

I decided to drag the thing on as long as possible.

" I'm so sorry it's so slow to start up, please be patient"

Long, long pause /scilence.

"Now press Ctrl & Alt ... Sir"

" I'm sorry it's still starting up."

When I thought I had pressed my luck as far as possible with that line..

"Ok, it's ready what do I have to do?"

"Sir press Ctrl & Alt ..."

"Oh I'm so sorry what is the thing called Ctrl"

To cut the story short I spent ages..ages.. getting him to explain and re-explain every step and key I had to press and how to find it on the keyboard. I'm sure he thought he was about to hit the jackpot. Finally we got to a point where he said.

"Now Sir, there should be a box with a message in it can you read it to me please?

"Oh yes your right" I said timidly yet excitedly as if I had just achieved something important. " It say's my computer is not even turned on you scamming liar ..your nothing but scum trying to rip people off"

The penny dropped with him and my post would be deleted if I repeated all the expletives he blurted out before hanging up.

As far as I can remember I haven't had a call about my computer since. I felt bad because lying is against my beliefs, but as I look at it, he was role playing and so was I.

Don't blame you at all for having a go but just to say that my son did a similar sort of thing and roundly cussed the caller. For many nights he would get silent calls at say 2am. so be aware!

In reply to a post by bowdon:

Another reason ISP's support needs to be brought back to UK.

Pray explain how that stops these calls.












I work with plenty of people with Indian accents in the UK....

My daughter has just received a text from 'Microsoft' on her mobile with some 'security No.',
I told her to delete it without even looking at it....

In reply to a post by martinsq:

My daughter has just received a text from 'Microsoft' on her mobile with some 'security No.',
I told her to delete it without even looking at it....

Hopefully it wasn't the 2-factor authentication to log into her Microsoft account.

In reply to a post by JohnR:

I work with plenty of people with Indian accents in the UK....

It's quite easy really. I too have worked with many colleagues and clients who have Indian accents, but none of them has been called "Nigel"!

In reply to a post by JPL:

In reply to a post by JohnR:

I work with plenty of people with Indian accents in the UK....

It's quite easy really. I too have worked with many colleagues and clients who have Indian accents, but none of them has been called "Nigel"!

There are plenty with a Bradford accent who are called Sanjeev and Naresh though!

In reply to a post by MHC:

There are plenty with a Bradford accent who are called Sanjeev and Naresh though!

I almost spat my tea out reading that

In reply to a post by CJT:

In reply to a post by MHC:

There are plenty with a Bradford accent who are called Sanjeev and Naresh though!

I almost spat my tea out reading that

I hope it was Darjeeling and not Lapsang Souchong!

My Mum kept BT Internet on the phone for over 1/2 hr before she let them know she has no internet at all !

As a child I spent (very happy) times in India, learning Hindi in the effortless way of children. Of course I have long since forgotten everything except the phrases that small boys learn when they shouldn't. It's probably very wrong to give the friendly Microsoft technician a choice mouthful as he's only trying to help. But it's very satisfying

I was getting about 20 calls a day - asking myself to fill in surveys and they wont bother myself again, if you say dont phone again not interested they repeat call, if you fill in the survey they tick the boxes that generates them the biggest fees so say no I'm not interested in one product or service you get a call days later advertising such. The only way to stop international/withheld or unknown numbers phoning your number is to change your number go exdirectory and never give out your home telephone number to any company - also never press a button to be removed from their calling list - its just sold onto the next list to harass you.

If all else fails remove the phone from the socket. Ahh piece and quiet.

Or use Truecall

"Ex-Directory" is little or no protection.

We have been such since 1992; and still get such calls. (We did not ask for that - BT "imposed" it on us, when changing our exchange system connection, to avoid a major fault in the Cross-Bar system, to the co-sited "System X", incidentally leading to a different number.)

A Phone Number is simply a Number, so is easily computer-generated for auto-dialling.

And the STD Code plus first of the last 6 digits, available in various published lists, make it extremely easy to "aim" coverage geographically.

I seem to be quite well protected by being ex-directory.

I have anonymous caller reject which blocks callers that withhold their caller ID but that's the only call screening I have. I only get a scam type call once every few months. Maybe three so far this year.

I probably only get four or five legitimate calls a year on my landline. It's there just for broadband really.

I fitted a TrueCall unit at my mother's and that's blocking lots of nuisance scam calls. Once I identify a call as originating from a scammer, I put the caller ID number (if available) onto the zap list. Zap list callers who ring my mother's number get greeted with a number unobtainable tone.

In reply to a post by kasg:

In reply to a post by martinsq:

My daughter has just received a text from 'Microsoft' on her mobile with some 'security No.',
I told her to delete it without even looking at it....

Hopefully it wasn't the 2-factor authentication to log into her Microsoft account.

None of us have any Microsoft account....

Sarah

Acknowledging that Truecall does help, what percentage of the scam calls have either the Caller CLI or a similar Presentation Number?

Presentation Numbers allow say smaller businesses, to give a single Call-Back Number, on calls and paper-work, so that the individual employee may directly call-out; but incoming calls/replies are routed to a call-desk, for initial filtering.

A lawyer's business with several para-legals dealing with house sales/purchases would be an example.

Thus adding a Presentation Number unknowingly to a Truecall would be a waste of time as generally no calls originate on it; but how do you distinguish?

And how readily can these be changed by the nuisance source?

So many "With-held" calls now originate within and from legitimate sources, particularly the NHS and its ancillaries, that the ramifications of blocking such calls may "in extremis" threaten your mother's life.


It is a highly frustrating situation; and certainly I do not see any 99% solution to it.

Do you?

Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Sep-16 07:58:54)

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

So many "With-held" calls now originate within and from legitimate sources, particularly the NHS and its ancillaries, that the ramifications of blocking such calls may "in extremis" threaten your mother's life.

Can you give an example scenario to demonstrate this?

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

"Ex-Directory" is little or no protection.
A Phone Number is simply a Number, so is easily computer-generated for auto-dialling

Well ex-directory and have Never had any such scam call.
I never answer a call unless i know the number. Anything important and they will leave a message.

What get's me is people fail to see who has the phone in their hand.....

Just (insert expletive of choice) and put the phone down

I have encountered them at one remove; as my lady-wife was the Senior District Nursing Sister, for the area, stretching out over 31 years.

You personally may fortunately never have encountered it; but it does happen.


Example
GP receives test results (whether in-house, laboratory or hospital), indicative of the need for rapid/immediate action.

Prescription mix-ups.

Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Sep-16 10:23:53)

Fortunately? I can't see me dying for a call from the GP.

Like yourself, in recent years we have received very few scam calls - often wondering why some seem to receive many - could it be using the (un-)social media.

But we have had two in about the past month, so can't say we are completely free of them.



I am not accustomed to using expletives; and generally have no intentions of resorting to such language - "each to his own".

Then I trust that you never encounter the possibilities of such a situation.

I can't imagine a situation where a doctor or hospital would phone me instead of ordering an ambulance.

This is why I put my mobile on do-not-disturb, permanently, and for the landline, I've opted with a phone unit with answer phone and silent-ringer. Problem sorted, on both counts.

I have come to realise that I do not have the time to deal with these kinds of calls anymore. If they are genuine, and really need to talk to me, they'll leave a message. Most do not. Total peace of mind. Not to mention that, for the answer phone aspect, a phone that eventually picks up the call, means that it is costing them money for that privilege, only for them to be presented with a machine and then hanging up once they realise a human hasn't answered it.

They can either stop calling me or.... keep incurring charges for the phone answering them. Either one of those options doesn't bother me, so I'm happy. One of those options will save them money, and one would hope their electronic automated systems monitor for such scenarios, and eventually realise that specific numbers behave this way.

Edited by deleted (Sun 11-Sep-16 10:56:16)

I had a bad time a couple of years ago. After my discharge after nine weeks in hospital both my consultant and my GP made follow-up calls from withheld numbers. I can never thank them enough. If the doctor gives out his number his line will swiftly be jammed by patients who have 'just a quick question, Doctor'

Hardly "in extremis" was it?

It feels like it, and sometimes is, when you or your partner is seriously ill and you are anxiously awaiting the results of tests and resultant discussion, or a call to go to hospital ASAP, when again an appointment needs to be made to see a specific consultant.

In both cases the stress involved, if the message is anything other than "all clear", in getting back through call systems to the relevant doctor, who will almost certainly not be able to take your call, is really upsetting, and could itself be life-threatening.

It's different when you are awaiting a call. You can easily turn it off by dialling #227#

I just don't see an incoming anonymous call being a life saver "in extremis".

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

So many "With-held" calls now originate within and from legitimate sources, particularly the NHS and its ancillaries, that the ramifications of blocking such calls may "in extremis" threaten your mother's life.

Well given that their system, as many others do, will give a message caller does not accept with held number. It is a simple case of them changing their system to show the number.

The answer is 100% simple. Put the pigging phone down

In reply to a post by JohnR:

The answer is 100% simple. Put the pigging phone down

That doesn't always work, especially for elderly folk who were brought up to be polite and wouldn't dream of hanging up on an active call.

I think this is why scammers seem to target the elderly.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

That doesn't always work, especially for elderly folk who were brought up to be polite and wouldn't dream of hanging up on an active call.

I think this is why scammers seem to target the elderly.

And just how do they find the age of the line holder?

Well it's time they learnt too. Something their family should be advising them too.

In reply to a post by JohnR:

And just how do they find the age of the line holder?

Exactly, they don't. It's just that younger people hang up - the elderly wouldn't.

Most that I get recently show a spoofed number anyway, and rarely one I recall seeing before. I don't remember ever having spam/scam/phishing calls on "withheld". Only on International and Unavailable.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Most that I get recently show a spoofed number anyway

We have had a spam call in the past and it was showing our number on the caller display, I was like [censored].

Paul

I have had scam calls from several numbers, the BT scamers use several numbers which are probably spoofed numbers, hence why you are unable to ring them back
I had one were if i answered no one spoke several seconds of silence then call dropped, so i started to answer but replace handset within 1second they rang back almost straight away, they got the very same response from me, my next plan of action was to call them something derogatory in Hindi that starts with the word mother,
And i have never been a BT broadband customer so they are using a random number generator

Edited by tommy45 (Sun 11-Sep-16 20:19:51)

I'm really not sure what you're trying to get at. None of the scammers who have previously called because 'there was a problem with the computer' or for 'an accident claim' etc. uses a legitimate number. They're not using presentation numbers.

Why would I add a presentation number to TrueCall? The numbers which get put on the zap list are confirmed scammers. Numbers added to the star list (calls allowed) are numbers which have called, been screened and turned out to be legitimate.

Legitimate callers such as NHS clinics which withhold their number have no difficulty getting through, I can assure you.

Sarah

I was simply pointing out that there are circumstances, where depending upon the exact settings etc, a less-knowledgeable user may unwittingly block legitimate and/or urgent calls.

This has happened with ourselves - as my lady-wife tends to get to our phones first - "Number Withheld" - so simply puts the phone back down, ignoring the call.

We dispensed with Call Blocking several years back, it really was a growing nuisance.

--------------

Why this kindly-intended reminder should cause such a furore to some TBB participants is beyond my understanding.

-----------


I wonder how many of the general public are aware of Presentation Numbers; and that call blocking has no effect on them?

In what way are the NHS Clinics getting through - is there some special coding or such-like?

I was in discussions with the local NHS Trust when it started to introduce "Number Withheld" etc; and its IT/Communications Department was unable to find a solution.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

I was in discussions with the local NHS Trust when it started to introduce "Number Withheld" etc; and its IT/Communications Department was unable to find a solution.

Must be rubbish staff then. As ll these types of call systems should have a means to adjust it so you can make a call listing the number. They might have to change settings on a adhok basis for each extension and then change back (guess that is too much like hard work for them) But that is how our system works, and its a old one as well.....

The answer is simple. Answer phone and then screen from there. Mine is on 4 rings and then to answerphone.
You can still pick up the call after it kicks in, if it's important.

You seem to be fixated on this " withheld numbers is dangerous".

Any genuine caller in a " life or death" situation getting the "we don't accept calls from withheld numbers " message will simply phone from another line , or their mobile phone.

It is clear from your comments that you have no idea what a trueCall unit is or how it works.

I have been using trueCall since they first came available and it is a 99.9999999% perfect answer to the problem of unwanted calls.

Set correctly all unknown callers (or those from withheld numbers) are asked for their name and are told to wait while the unit tries to connect them.

Anyone you want to speak to you allow through , otherwise you can send them to answerphone or block them permanently.

Blocked numbers can then be set to hear a message, a permanent dial tone or best of all the line unobtainable tone and that results in your number being removed from the scammers phone lists as a dead number.

The phone never rings unless it is a starred caller or the trueCall unit handing a call to you where the person has stated their name.

You can issue family / contacts with pass codes and even assign different ring tones to people.

I deal with police, social services, hospitals and a special needs college and never once have I had any issue.

The trueCall unit works perfectly, it is also an answer machine and call recorder.

Scammers and call bots instantly drop the connection to my number , they don't come back.

Cold callers do the same, they know from the first challenge message that their call is logged and that many truCall users have the call record facility available.

They know they will be recorded and the evidence can see them heavily fined by the courts.

I went from having multiple unwanted calls every day ( especially the overseas calls late at night) to never getting a call I don't want.

Not much point in having the number withheld centrally and letting staff override it. Particularly medical staff from top level to reception.

Thank you for your descriptions of the operations of Truecall - as I have no direct experience of that type as you suspect; but I wonder how many others on the forum are in that situation.

It's nice to get sensible information etc about any device.

On the Call Blocker we had, it could be set to either two Ring Pairs or six Ring Pairs.

The 2RP were far too short for conventional answering; whilst most would not wait 6RP, about 20 seconds, to hear such announcements. "Far too long!"

---------

Fortunately we get few scamming calls; and with the most recent about two years back, I asked the caller which of the five PCs in the house was she referring to.

In fact, I am amazed that we get so few "nuisance" calls, compared with the general publicity given to such.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not much point in having the number withheld centrally and letting staff override it. Particularly medical staff from top level to reception.

Indeed. Healthcare organisations deliberately make all calls with unavailable or withheld caller ID, as the knowledge a call was made to a number might compromise confidentiality. Take, for example, a sexual health clinic trying to call a teenager, or a gynaecology unit trying to call a woman in an abusive relationship about an abortion. In an admittedly worst case, the disclosure of the involvement of medical services to someone else with access to the phone in these situations could endanger the patient's life.

Like some other posters in this thread, I have a lot of dealing with healthcare organisations. I'm chronically ill and looked after by teams at three hospitals, my partner is chronically ill and looked after by another hospital (she spent over two months in hospital last year) and my parents both have health problems. Many healthcare organisations prefer calling on mobiles, as they are more likely to be personal to the patient - even so, calls are always unavailable or withheld.

I would have lost a lot of important calls if I blocked calls with unavailable or withheld caller ID, including some when my partner nearly died in Intensive Care last year. There isn't an obvious way to single out calls from legitimate healthcare organisations without risking some loss of confidentiality in sensitive situations.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Why this kindly-intended reminder should cause such a furore to some TBB participants is beyond my understanding.

I share your puzzlement and I shall not continue this discussion beyond hoping that those keeping it going (whoops - almost wrote smartarses) never find themselves in such a situation. The same goes for their families: may they never dash for the phone call they dread only to answer some spurious caller.

Truecall may or may not solve the problem of unwanted calls but not everyone can afford £120 to pay for it, plus monthly caller display charges. Particularly the pensioner/vulnerable person who loses various allowances when in hospital; I didn't know about this until I saw the distress it caused to a patient during my own lengthy sojourn.

Be thankful for your blessings, while you have them.

I'm not sure where you're getting your prices from but a BT 8600 with Truecall is £40 and caller display is free.

£33.99, if you are a share holder Order placed, thank you BB !

+1 my phone has never been quieter. No International calls, no sales/marketing calls, no recorded messages.

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

None of the scammers who have previously called because 'there was a problem with the computer' or for 'an accident claim' etc. uses a legitimate number. They're not using presentation numbers.

I'm not so lucky, the last tech support scammers who called me were using Skype presenting 020 numbers on caller id.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

... a BT 8600 with Truecall is £40 and caller display is free.

How come caller display is free? What if your phone service doesn't provide it for free, like my CP?

Although I had free caller display most of the time my phone line was with BT, (through signing up to their Privacy Service or whatever it was that gave you TPS), I was shocked when I checked my bill for the first time in ages and found it was being charged at some absurd price. (Like all BT line prices).

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

In what way are the NHS Clinics getting through - is there some special coding or such-like?

I've set up TrueCall so that it uses call screening rather than call bocking unless numbers are explicitly added to the zap list.

A caller from an unknown number is asked to say who they are and this message is then played back to the recipient while the caller is placed on hold. The recipient then decides whether to accept or reject the call.

If the caller says "I'm calling from Microsoft about your computer", my mother rejects it. If the caller says "I'm calling from the surgery", she'll accept it.

It's really very straightforward.

Surely though if the NHS are withholding their numbers so that people other than the recipient don't know they were in contact then they also wouldn't say who they are when challenged by the TrueCall system?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like an interesting system but doesn't solve that problem. Personally I don't answer any number I don't recognise and just let it trip to answerphone. The TrueCall does sound interesting though as it means I wouldn't even need to check the caller display to decide on whether I will answer.

The TrueCall does sound interesting though

Mine is on its way, I'll let you know how it goes.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Surely though if the NHS are withholding their numbers so that people other than the recipient don't know they were in contact then they also wouldn't say who they are when challenged by the TrueCall system?

They do say who they are.

In which case the earlier argument in this thread for them withholding numbers doesn't hold. When they say who they are they have no idea who is at the other end of the phone and so give away at least as much information as if the phone number was being provided.

My suspicion is that withholding numbers is more for when they phone people at their place of work. Having a caller id showing, for example, a call to a particular employee from the local STI clinic may not be ideal.

Also bear in mind that a caller id may be visible on a telephone long after the call. The message the caller gives on TrueCall only persists until that call is either accepted or rejected. It can't be retrieved later.

Clinics do also leave messages on home and mobile voicemail.

Doctors and NHS do say who they are because by that time they know from the message that they are connected to the correct household.

You can use the generic messages supplied or customise as you wish.

So a caller hears " you have reached the "insert name" family, please state your name and I will try to connect you." the trueCall then calls you and plays the recording of the person stating their name, at that point you choose to accept the call or otherwise.

If people give their name the phone rings, if not the caller hangs up and you are never disturbed.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I'm not sure where you're getting your prices from but a BT 8600 with Truecall is £40 and caller display is free.

You are obviously an expert in today's tech world but for once, imagine you're a doddery old person like me. The first thing you do is to Google for Truecall, and right at the top is Truecall UK which lists various gadgets priced £100-£120 plus carriage plus a £20 annual fee after the first year.

The maximum State pension is £119.30 per week, just enough for Truecall Secure less carriage. Oddly enough, some pensioners may prefer to use this fine sum for their food, rent, heating etc.

It is sites like this where you can ask for and receive advice, rather than dishing out insults.

But if old and doddery like me you google BT 8600, finding the "Twin" option for £38 at Tesco and £49.99 at Argos.

£119.30pw isn't the Maximum State pension either.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 12-Sep-16 19:05:24)

It is sites like this where you can ask for and receive advice, rather than dishing out insults.

I'm not old, but I am doddery .... thank you young man.

In reply to a post by ian72:

In which case the earlier argument in this thread for them withholding numbers doesn't hold. When they say who they are they have no idea who is at the other end of the phone and so give away at least as much information as if the phone number was being provided.

"It's the clinic calling for David" is potentially much less inflammatory and confidentiality breaking than caller ID which, when Googled, turns out to be the local sexual health clinic.

My experience is that health service callers are pretty vague about exactly who is calling and from which department unless they have established the identity of who they are speaking to, they know, from personal experience, that they are on safe ground or (edit to add) the potential urgency of the situation requires concerns about loss of confidentiality to be ignored. For example, the receptionists at the pain management service who look after me know that I am comfortable with them leaving messages on my voicemail that contain potentially confidential details.

It's a balancing act for all involved, but my understanding is that everyone involved in healthcare is trained to think about confidentiality whenever they use electronic communications. Another example is that unencrypted confidential patient information is not supposed to be sent over the public Internet - it must be sent from an NHSnet address to an NHSnet address or faxed. I had a consultant (now sadly retired) who would happily deal with medical queries of mine via her university e-mail address because she knew that I understood and accepted the potential risks to confidentiality, but this was an unusual exception (especially as she would deal directly with me rather than following the usual protocol of requiring all requests to go via her NHS medical secretary).

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Sep-16 20:00:29)

There is no way to stop cold callers the only way is to use the answer phone message system.
You will hear the phone ring but ignore it, if it is an important caller they will leave a message, then you can just call them back.
Any other caller who does not leave a message is a time waster.

If a mobile is used then the call will be listed as a missed call for you to delete or try to call.
On a land line you will not know the number to dial because using 1471 will simply state that the caller did not leave a number.

I know it can be annoying if you are waiting for a certain call but there is really no other way unless I am missing the point.?

I am 80 years young, so I guess I am really old and should not ride a motorbike or build PC systems, using some PC`s the callers could probably be traced but imo it`s just not worth the bother.

Edited by deleted (Mon 12-Sep-16 23:36:44)

In reply to a post by ironman12345:

On a land line you will not know the number to dial because using 1471 will simply state that the caller did not leave a number.

At least if you had caller ID on your landline (often free, though you might have to go through the loops) you would be able to see the calling number and decide whether to answer or not.

I am not convinced on the Truecall type systems and it is an extra hurdle for genuine callers. I let 'International', 'Unavailable' and dodgey looking caller IDs go through to the answer machine. I normally answer 'Withheld' as most, but not all, are genuine, and certainly did so when I was expecting hospital calls. Particularly annoying are the recorded message calls that don't realise they are talking to an answer machine and you get half a message telling you about bank charge refunds or whatever. I had a most amusing one of those recently allegedly telling me there was a fault on the system that was being looked into and I could find out more information 'on their website' - from an 'Unavailable' number and the name of whoever was ringing was cut off from the beginning of the message...

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

I am not convinced on the Truecall type systems and it is an extra hurdle for genuine callers. I let 'International', 'Unavailable' and dodgey looking caller IDs go through to the answer machine.

How isn't that an 'extra hurdle' for these callers, some of whom may be genuine, particularly the unavailable number ones? TrueCall can be set to do that for those calls automatically too.

TrueCall gives very fine control over how to handle different types of call. You can also have separate day and night settings so that calls received between certain times (of your choosing) are handled differently.

Calling numbers are categorized as follows;

• Caller not recognised - callers which have a caller ID displayed which aren't on the star or zap list
• Star list caller - callers you have added which are known good numbers. You can add a name to their number and the name will be displayed on the handset when they call.
• Zap list caller - numbers you have added to a blacklist
• Withheld number caller - caller ID was blocked by the caller
• International caller
• Mobile phone caller
• Business caller - calls from numbers starting 08 or 09
• Number unavailable - caller ID isn't available but wasn't blocked
• Payphone
• Charity/Public sector

Call handling options available for each call category are;

Accept call
trueCall rings your phone immediately, and if you don't answer it asks the caller to leave a message.

Ask for Callers Code
trueCall answers the phone and ask the caller to enter a code. If they enter the correct code your phone will ring. By default your Callers Code is the last two digits of your trueCall unit's serial number.

Ask caller to say their name & press '#'
trueCall answers the call for you and asks the caller to say their name then press the hash key. If they say nothing it rejects their call, otherwise it rings your phone and announces them, giving you the choice of accepting the call, asking the caller to leave a message, or Starring/Zapping the caller.

Block with Zap message
trueCall answers the call and plays a message telling the caller to hang up and not call again.

Ask caller to say their name (Whisper)
trueCall answers the call for you and asks the caller to say their name. If they say nothing it rejects their call, otherwise it rings your phone and announces them, giving you the choice of accepting the call, asking the caller to leave a message, or Starring/Zapping the caller. This is called the Whisper process. [Note - the caller can enter the callers code to get straight through]

Block with ringing
trueCall doesn't answer the call or ring your phone, but the caller hears ringing and believes that you are not at home. [Warning - recommend that you do not use this feature if you have network voicemail on your line as it will pick up these callers]

Ask caller to press a button (Shield)
trueCall asks the caller to press a key on their telephone keypad. If they don�t press the correct key they don�t get through. This blocks recorded messages and fax calls. This is called the Shield process. [Note - the caller can enter the callers code to get straight through]

Block with unobtainable tone
trueCall answers the call for you and plays an unobtainable tone to the caller so they think that your phone line is disconnected. This can be effective against telemarketers (who may take your number off their list), and malicious callers (who think you have changed your number).[Note - the caller can enter the callers code to get through]

Shield & Whisper
This asks the caller to press a button then asks them to say their name, combining both the Shield and the Whisper features.

Urgent callers only
trueCall answers the phone for you and tells the caller that you are asleep. It gives the caller the choice of leaving a message or pressing the hash key (#) to ring your phone.

Ask caller to leave message
trueCall answers the call for you and asks the caller to leave a message.

Edited by caffn8me (Tue 13-Sep-16 08:12:49)

I don't know if the BT 8600 has all these features.

Edited by deleted (Tue 13-Sep-16 08:12:57)

It won't have if it doesn't have an online control panel.

TrueCall looks ok, but what a lot of hassle just to find out if a caller is calling you to waste your time or if they are calling to actually speak to you about something important.
Maybe I am just old fashioned but if they are polite enough they could just leave a message and/or a real number for you to contact.
But cold callers are not polite and never leave a number to contact.
My wife is in a care home and I have instructed the home and all others who might be concerned to leave a text message on my mobile, land lines are out of date anyway.?
The OP has stated that the BT calls are fraudulent is that not enough, ? . imo they are a modern curse that we have to live with as there are thousands of ways to cold call any number, but unfortunately no real way to stop them.

Edited by deleted (Tue 13-Sep-16 23:17:35)

As has been explained many times now, Truecall is a real way to stop them.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Not much point in having the number withheld centrally and letting staff override it. Particularly medical staff from top level to reception.

Why. As has been said. Many people block these types of call. If it it's a important message, then removing the one thing that is stopping the call from getting through is not a problem.

As to people not wanting other people to know what is going on. Then do not give that number out. Tell them they need to write to them.... Still I guess someone may open the letter

As usual TBB comes up with the solutions, I had not heard of Truecall and Sarah's clear explanation shows it seems to be the answer. However, I am not convinced that vulnerable/non-tech users will be able to manage it.

Looking back on this thread, it seems that the real problem with 'number withheld' calls is when they are health related, especially when a relative is very ill in hospital. Our local health centre has three levels of contact: 1, emergency, dial 999. 2. Make appointment by phone or online, current delay three to four weeks. 3. If patient can't wait that long, ask doctor for a call back, usually following triage by the practice nurse.

I stress this is a simplified outline of the system. Patients seeking telephone advice must ring reception before 1030 and are advised that a doctor will call back within that time during which answering machines etc must be turned off to accept the doctor's call.

The doctor may have 30-40 calls to make and can only afford one minute to clear busy lines, answering machines used as screening systems etc after which he/she goes on to the next call. Mobiles pose few problems but older people tend to use landlines, staff do their best to facilitate patients but like any GP practice they are overloaded. Despite this the system works well and the practice says they will accept Truecall provided the patient can operate it.

Many doctors say their real internet problems arise from social media and messaging used for cyberbullying, leading to body image issues, self-harm and even suicide. The GP is usually first port of call for young people with mental problems but the upsurge in psychological referrals in the five years since smartphones came into widespread use has been matched by cutbacks in support services. Boys are less affected but across the UK one in three girls feel they have some form of mental stress or illness.

My apologies if I have ventured way outside TBB territory but this aspect of the internet came as a shock, and perhaps other readers will wonder where all this technology is going to end up.

You can use it with default settings and it will still stop the vast majority of nuisance calls.

The trueCall Secure model is specifically designed to be very easy for elderly users.

Have a look at the video at http://www.truecall.co.uk/product-p/tcs.htm

You can try making a call to a trueCall Secure unit, which has two basic operating modes (Filter and Trusted Callers only) as folows;

• Dial 03330 115567 (standard rate call) to see how trueCall Secure treats unrecognised callers using the Filter option
• Dial 03330 115870 to see how the more secure �Trusted Callers Only� option works (the callers code is �99�)

I've opted for the standard model and check the calls my mother receives several times a week. I can see all calls she has made and received and if I need to add a number to the whitelist, I can do it remotely. Ditto the blacklist.

It gives me peace of mind that my mother won't get a call from 'the bank' because 'there's been a problem with her credit card' - and subsequently find her accounts emptied.

Disclaimer: I'm just a happy customer. I've got no connection with trueCall but it really does solve the problem of nuisance calls. My mother was receiving several a day some times. Now she gets absolutely zero. She also has no problems receiving legitimate calls.

It really does what it says on the tin.

Edited by caffn8me (Thu 15-Sep-16 20:39:05)

+1 Totally agree.

If you are a wizzard with running a VM ect then maybe scam /bait the scamers like this person (who is one of many ) does Lewis's Tech

+ 2

On Batboy's advice I got that BT8600 advanced call blocker phone with True call Works a treat, easy to use, and easy to set up.

Thank you Sarah, this is very helpful. As you may guess I'm in an association which helps vulnerable people; the BB advice and hints I have gained from this site in recent years have in turn been used to help others. Our 'customers' are now reasonably alert to internet scams, we have good AV packages on all their computers, but these clever phone calls are becoming a worry as bank branches close down and more are being forced online � which is one reason we started up.

Please could I ask you about two of your comments:
�I've set up TrueCall so that it uses call screening ...�
� � if I need to add a number to the whitelist, I can do it remotely. Ditto the blacklist.�

If you were not available, do you think your mother could set up and update the Truecall herself? Not everyone is blessed with a dutiful daughter and as I've stated previously not everyone is comfortable with technology. Most of our association are retired but we can't spend every day running around helping people. Having said that your posts are much appreciated and we'll probably have a whipround to buy a Truecall and let our friends try it.

There has been mention of BT8600 at £40 or so: does anyone know if it is a practical alternative to Truecall and above all, is it easy to use? None of our friends can afford a week's pension for Truecall, indeed some are more acquainted with the local food bank than the electrical shops.

The way I've set things up is that all callers from numbers which aren't on the 'star list' are prompted to press a number on their telephone keypad and then say who they are.

This is what trueCall describes as 'Shield and Whisper'.

The caller gives their name, my mother decides whether to accept or not, and that's it.

Originally, it was set up with only the 'Whisper' function which just asked the caller to say their name but there were so many calls with automated recorded messages which cause the phone to ring because trueCall interpreted the message as someone saying their name, that I added the requirement to press a button.

I need to go through how to add numbers to the whitelist with my mother but it's very straightforward from the online control panel - although this does require an additional subscription after the first year. It's worth it as it has completely stopped nusiance calls. If an unknown caller does ring and passes screening, that number can be added to the star list so that it gets straight through next time, just by pressing the star button on the handset.

Logging into the control panel, you click on the "My Calls" link see a full list of all calls made and received.

There's a screenshot here.

Note: If you're using Firefox, this may come up with a warning that states "The website tried to negotiate an inadequate level of security." You can safely ignore that and click the link again and it will load. See below for technical details *

The second number on the list is one I've checked and found to be a scammer. I've labelled it 'Scam" and added it to the blacklist. The next time this number calls, it will recieve a number unobtainable tone.

You can see the caller edit screen here.

trueCall is very straightforward and anyone with basic web surfing skills should be able to manage it. The trueCall Secure will probably screen out almost all calls without any web skills being needed, using the automated setup (voice prompts) when it is first plugged in.

The BT 8600 has some of the trueCall technology embedded and will likely stop the vast majority of nuisance calls. It can't be configured in the same way as the full trueCall units but it should still be a huge improvement over no call screening.

* this is to do with the server being HTTP/2 enabled and having only 256 rather than 128 bit keys. Firefox tries to negotiate TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA, 256 bit keys, TLS 1.2, but the HTTP/2 protocol specifies only TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA, 128 bit keys, TLS 1.2 should be used. The connection then falls back to HTTP/1.1

Edited by caffn8me (Fri 16-Sep-16 20:12:30)

We got a BT 8610 system earlier this year. The number of nuisance calls that cause the phone to ring is zero. And we've not missed any important calls. The caller just has to give their name, the phone calls us, we listen to the caller's name and then can accept, reject, divert to answer phone. In an evening it can be interesting to see the list of blocked calls that day. Occasionally none, sometimes several.

The only customisation I've done, apart from storing all the required numbers in the phone book, has been to set up a personal answer phone message and a personal "please give your name" type message. Other than that it's default settings.

Thanks again to everyone for their advice which I sent around our association. We have decided to try BT8600 Truecall with a few people but others are incapable of using it, they become confused. Of course they cannot operate online banking, but scam calls can upset them although most now know to put the phone down. The dodgy builders who call at the door to tarmac the drive or replace slates for only £50k are a bigger problem.

I also found that a couple of patients are being monitored over the internet as part of a pilot scheme which so far is working well. These systems are quite simple (I'm told!) but rely on a reliable connection, ADSL is fine. Thanks to TBB advice we have been able to maintain this so far. In fairness to BT they have a vulnerable customer scheme which brought a very swift response on the one occasion we used it.

Wife received one of these calls today from "John" with strong Indian accent. He seemed unable to accept that we ceased using BT in 2008 and have never had a BT Broadband contract!

Eventually he rang off.

In reply to a post by arthur256:

Wife received one of these calls today from "John" with strong Indian accent. He seemed unable to accept that we ceased using BT in 2008 and have never had a BT Broadband contract!

Eventually he rang off.

Just like their counterparts in the real BT support, they don't deviate from their scripts

I think the NHS are well aware of Truecall and call guardian. We have had several calls from them on Call guardian and they just say their name and wait for you to press the button to answer.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

There has been mention of BT8600 at £40 or so: does anyone know if it is a practical alternative to Truecall and above all, is it easy to use? None of our friends can afford a week's pension for Truecall, indeed some are more acquainted with the local food bank than the electrical shops.

Further to my previous post , the sentence in the quote proves what I was saying.
Truecall and other apps cost money, so in effect the party receiving the cold calls is paying to try to stop them.
In my book that is a scam too because it is costing the phone user money ,if it was free then no problem , but it is not.
The cold caller is trying [maybe] to get info to sell or to run a survey to get info on what products the user likes , money again!.
The whole thing is to get info or sell you something , at 80 I have lived enough years to know that money is what we all want.?
Cold callers hardly ever contact a mobile because it costs more , hence the landline calls.

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Sep-16 21:58:13)

I don't know which sentence proves what, but a new phone costs money, as does new anything else.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I don't know which sentence proves what, but a new phone costs money, as does new anything else.

That is the point, everything costs money and the cold callers are just trying to get more of it from you.
And like AV software and maybe Truecall etc they are just companies trying to get more money.
Companies spend more trying to get there products to last through the guarantee period than probably on the device. In the TV industry we called it the "drop off resistor" because after the guarantee had run out the resistor would drop of so that the user had to pay for the repair.

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Sep-16 22:40:21)

I'm sorry but if you want to buy something new then that's going to cost money.

I'm sorry but if you want to buy something new then that's going to cost money.

Agreed.

The only legitimate free way to stop cold callers would be to only plug ones phone in when you wished to make an outgoing call .... not entirely helpful, but it would work.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I'm sorry but if you want to buy something new then that's going to cost money.

I agree , but why should the user have to resort to buying something new [like a phone] just to try to stop cold callers.?

How else can they be stopped?

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

How else can they be stopped?

Depends on how many cold calls I guess , but if they get ignored enough they might just give up [Joking!].
They never leave a message so I guess as long as you don`t answer the call unless they do and don`t mind the ring tone, ignore them.
All I was trying to point out is that if you spend money to try to stop them , I guess they win.
IMO it`s like email spam , we can`t stop it so we just delete it.

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Sep-16 23:08:38)

I don't think you realise that elderly people have to answer the call and won't hang up.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

I don't think you realise that elderly people have to answer the call and won't hang up.

I am 80 years old so they will just have to learn to live in a modern world like I did.
I know that some elderly folk find it hard to break the habits of a lifetime , but I guess they have to because times change.

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Sep-16 23:17:33)

It's just the same old call screening. Truecall is a device that does it for you or you can do it yourself. Truecall costs money, but doing it yourself is free.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

How else can they be stopped?

By confiscating the assets of the assets of those responsible. Something which our useless MPS failed to include in the present laws. The person responsible for many of the calls just lets the companies go bankrupt when they get caught whilst he pockets the money. He recently had a posh wedding at a Park Lane hotel (IIRC)

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

It's just the same old call screening. Truecall is a device that does it for you or you can do it yourself. Truecall costs money, but doing it yourself is free.

True BatBoy , And I agree that not all older people are interested in the modern world and find to hard to change.
I guess I am just lucky to be able to handle it all myself.
Great discussing it with you though , even though we have different views.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

How else can they be stopped?

By confiscating the assets of the assets of those responsible. Something which our useless MPS failed to include in the present laws. The person responsible for many of the calls just lets the companies go bankrupt when they get caught whilst he pockets the money. He recently had a posh wedding at a Park Lane hotel (IIRC)

Surely only one person is not behind all the cold calls from offshore call centres.?
This thread has really got big now is the OP still around.?

Edited by deleted (Wed 21-Sep-16 23:42:57)

Look, if you want to stop posting in this thread, feel free.

In reply to a post by BatBoy:

Look, if you want to stop posting in this thread, feel free.

You took that the wrong way , I just wondered if the OP was still here is all.

He's a regular

In reply to a post by ironman12345:

They never leave a message so I guess as long as you don`t answer the call unless they do and don`t mind the ring tone, ignore them.

..and if you were to have a method of recording messages, that would be free, would it?

How would that work, given that most of these scammers are calling from overseas? Who would confiscate their assets?

Presumably not the foreign calls. The story was in the press earlier this year, and who ever issues the fines did complain.

This? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/21/fraudster...

Just got another call from "BT technical department".

I wonder whether its time for BT to move to a whitelist instead of the blacklist?

It would take longer to implement and is probably technically very complicated. But at the moment we have effectively hackers hacking the phone network.

All they're doing is picking up the phone and dialling a number. There's no way to stop that because that's how the phone system works. Hopefully you just hung up?

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

A caller from an unknown number is asked to say who they are and this message is then played back to the recipient while the caller is placed on hold.

In my Area ALL of the local/main Hospitals present as "Number Withheld - Out of Area".

Furthermore, until they have confirmed that they are speaking to their actual Patient, they won't acknowledge that they are from the NHS (apparently this is because some Patients may not have let their own family know that they are seeking Medical Assistance)!!

But at the moment we have effectively hackers hacking the phone network.

So go get a BT8600 with True call

As I've said before, callers from the GP surgery and the hospital do actually say who they are and their calls are accepted. I'm not making this up.

In reply to a post by johnjburness:

In my Area ALL of the local/main Hospitals present as "Number Withheld - Out of Area".

Yet here. They show as the XXX Doctor Ward xx. But the number, which is displayed, from does not take incoming calls.....

Edited by deleted (Thu 22-Sep-16 19:06:21)

Right paper, wrong article! I have struggled to find the correct one.

In reply to a post by caffn8me:

As I've said before, callers from the GP surgery and the hospital do actually say who they are and their calls are accepted. I'm not making this up.

Don't think you are Sarah. I've just had a msg from the local hospital (number withheld) to tell me they have a couple of dates for my op. They said who they were and the department, that they had a couple of dates for me and would I ring back.

Lately I've been answering number withheld calls knowing that one may well be from the Hospital. The previous one was someone trying to sell me burglar alarms.

Edited by Tacitus (Fri 23-Sep-16 18:40:06)

I had one of these today, after about 20 minutes of conversation they eventually figured out I was not following their instructions correctly at each step and proceeded to get very angry about me wasting *their* time.

When trying to get me to install teamviewer to be able to get access to my machine, I was pretending to find it hard to follow their instructions about how to install it, they clicked I was playing with them.

At which, they proceeded to shout at me with a barrage of racists comments about British people, I will not repeat it here, much of it was very graphic, from this point I was pretty certain this was not a person from BT I was speaking to.

My parents have been called about the same thing, but claiming to be from Microsoft.

In reply to a post by godsell4:

I had one of these today, after about 20 minutes of conversation they eventually figured out I was not following their instructions correctly at each step and proceeded to get very angry about me wasting *their* time.

When trying to get me to install teamviewer to be able to get access to my machine, I was pretending to find it hard to follow their instructions about how to install it, they clicked I was playing with them.

At which, they proceeded to shout at me with a barrage of racists comments about British people, I will not repeat it here, much of it was very graphic, from this point I was pretty certain this was not a person from BT I was speaking to.

My parents have been called about the same thing, but claiming to be from Microsoft.

Hope you threw some insults back at him in Hindi as most of them are of that race
Also if you had set up a VM on your PC running a copy of windows, you could of allowed him access and played a game of Scammer bingo scammer bingo which is full of phrases most of them use in their scripted scam as well as some instructions they give and windows utilities they will run in order to scam those who aren't computer literate

Edited by tommy45 (Tue 27-Sep-16 18:12:35)

These days, if I get to take the call rather than my wife, I respond to "I'm calling from Microsoft ..." with "rubbish" or "no you aren't", and to "you have errors on your machine" with "no,I havent", "which machine?" or "no, I haven't", and wait to see how long they keep going - I never bother to time the session. I should add that I'm retired, and often nowhere near any of the systems on my local network, nearly all of which are linux based.

Edited by dandnsmith (Wed 28-Sep-16 08:48:06)

In reply to a post by dandnsmith:

These days, if I get to take the call rather than my wife, I respond to "I'm calling from Microsoft ..." with "rubbish" or "no you aren't", and to "you have errors on your machine" with "no,I havent", "which machine?" or "no, I haven't", and wait to see how long they keep going - I never bother to time the session. I should add that I'm retired, and often nowhere near any of the systems on my local network, nearly all of which are linux based.

If I bother to answer the call my favourite return to their "I am calling from whoever" is "You have reached the security office UK and are being traced for location etc you have 30 seconds. Do not call this number again or the trace will be complete"
It works as they cut off as soon as they hear it.
This message will destruct in 30 seconds [Mission Impossible) LOL!

Edited by deleted (Thu 29-Sep-16 15:22:00)