Can someone explain why my neighbours line is 3 x faster?

I live in a row of terraced cottages over 2 miles from the exchange. On one side my neighbour gets 7Mb, on the other side they get 9Mb while I get 2Mb. According to various ISPs (Plusnet, Sky and Vodafone) and Openreach the maximum speed for my line is 2Mb due to the distance from the exchange. I have a problem believing that for the following reasons:
1. There is a single surface laid cable running from the cabinet to a telegraph pole at the end of the cottages.
2. From the pole individual drop cables supply each cottage.
3. Both my immediate neighbours are on standard broadband as am I.
4. The difference in distance between my master socket and each of my neighbours is approx 20ft.

The above points show (to me at least) that there is no appreciable difference in the distance to the exchange for me and my neighbours (with one of them actually being 20ft further). That negates the reason supplied by all the ISPs and Openreach.

Openreach agreed in early October last year that there was a fault on the line and that a section of cable needed to be replaced which they completed earlier this week. My speed dropped from 2.3Mb to 2Mb.

I really want to know why this is happening and who knows, I might even be willing to accept it but just getting told that's just the way it is doesn't cut it for me.

Dave The Frustrated

Maybe you are the one on the one bad line in the bundle, which does happen.

Another more common reason is impact of telephone wiring in your home.

What are the connection speed, attenuation and noise margin figures for both downstream and upstream from your connection?

Compare those to what the neighbours have too.

How do I get those figures?
As for the wiring in my house, the cable comes in through the wall into the master socket (recently replaced with a MasterSocket 5C) and the router & phone are plugged into that. No extensions of any kind in the house.

Log into the router you have and you should find the figures under something like ADSL status.

If you name make and model of router someone might be able to say specifically where the page is

I looked at the TBB Map at speedtests and saw my neighbour a street away is getting 66 max compared to my max 64. Can you delete his tests

No

Don't forget the part of the line before the cabinet (the E side)

Some cabinets can be fed by 3 or 4 E side cables, and these cables generally aren't of identical makeup.

Your line could be on an E side cable which consists of aluminium and/or 0.4mm copper whilst the neighbours could be on E side cable which is 0.5mm or 0.63mm copper for its entire length.

Edited by troublegum (Thu 04-May-17 23:01:36)

Put your postcode in here https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/postcode-search

May show speedtest and ofcom data; spot on when I enter my postcode.

Ian

Finally found those figures

Downstream
Connection Speed 2082 Kbps
Attenuation 38.5dB
Noise Margin 19dB

Upstream
Connection Speed 724 Kbps
Attenuation 17.8dB
Noise Margin 11.3dB

I'm waiting on the neighbours getting back from work to see what their figures are.

I've had various explanations for the difference between me and my neighbours from the Openreach engineers that have visited including electric fences in the area causing interference (we all use the same multi pair cable) and the latest was that I'm on a fibre circuit up to the cabinet but am too far from it for this to work. On a whim I called BT yesterday to talk about switching and they offered me exactly the same setup that Openreach said was the cause of the problem and said I would have a guaranteed min speed of 3Mb. They also claimed that they got 'special treatment' from Openreach on faults saying they can have an engineer out the next day while the other ISPs will have to wait a few days.

I'd just like to say thanks to those who have been offering advice - if I could I'd buy you a beer

Also, since joining Vodafone in late September 2016 they have been working to try and find out why this is happening. They gave me a minimum guaranteed speed of 4.13Mb when I signed up and have said all along that I can leave at any time with no penalty but that they are willing to continue trying to get this sorted.

The noise margin is the reason your connection rate is so low. It may be high due to a noisy line but it sure isn't normal.

Does the router show which modulation type your connection is?

Which ISP are you with?

Have they carried out a DLM/SNR reset?

Openreach cannot give special treatment to BT. It would be against a Ofcom rules and even a sniff of that happening would have Sky and TalkTalk screaming blue murder.

What all ISPs can do is pay Openreach a bit more for higher service levels if they wish. In particular there are fixed prices for various fault response times. AIUI BT Consumer, which provides broadband to domestic users such as us, does pay for a business level of response times where many other ISPs just pay for the standard level.

Re your speeds, I suggest simple re-sync's or reboots of your modem/router are not sufficient at this stage. The kit can occasionally get in a real mess and need a Factory Reset. You need to try one.

There should be a small hole probably in the back of the modem, labelled Reset. To do a factory reset, while it is running normally you firmly but gently press and hold for several seconds something like an opened up paper clip into that hole, to depress the hidden microswitch. Hold until the lights go out or start flashing, then release.

It will then reboot to exactly how it was when you received it, except any firmware updates that have been applied will still be present. You will probably need to re-enter your broadband login details if you had to when you first got it. If when you got it, it did an auto setup, then that should happen again.

DSL Mode:
VDSL G.993.5(VDSL)
DSL Status Information
Line Status - Show Time
Link Type - Fast path
Error Counter:
FEC Corrections 28 Downstream, 75 Upstream
CRC Errors 0 in both directions.

ISP is Vodafone and they have done resets in the past but not since the cable was repaired. I'm currently waiting on a call from the tech support (probably not till Monday now).

You need an Openreach visit to reset the line.

ISP's cannot reset VDSL connections.

What does http://dslchecker.bt.com show for your phone number, or address if the phone number doesn't work.

Hi RobertoS,
I took the comment about 'Special Treatment' as a sales ploy but your explanation makes more sense - thanks.

Vodafone have asked me not to do any resets on the router while they are investigating the problem although I have done them in the past. On this particular router you need to keep the micro switch depressed for 30 seconds to get the Factory Reset. When I get the call from the tech support team I'll talk with them about it.

Seems like I'm in a permanent 'hurry up and wait' situation...

You need a DLM reset done by an Openreach engineer.

Hi lee111s,
Rather than typing all those numbers in (and making lots of mistakes) I've done a screen grab which I've linked below.

Broadband Availability Results

Being the numpty that I am I don't have a clue what alot of those figures mean but since I know I'm on a VDSL connection it seems to be saying that I should expect speeds in the range 2 to 7.9 depending if I'm impacted (probably due to distance) or clean and if you look at the high or low figures.

To be honest I'll be happy if I can get the 4 that I'm supposed to getting now.

Blimey, those must be the lowest estimates I have ever seen!

I've seen lower.

Now that your line has been changed, you need the noise margin reset.

With a margin of 6db you should get somewhere close to the higher end of the A range.

At one point (about 9 months ago) with Sky I was getting 0.5Mbps. They said everything was fine so I left.

Just to clarify, I've highlighted two lines - which, in your case, are highly significant.

In reply to a post by dewt:

Finally found those figures

Downstream
Connection Speed 2082 Kbps
Attenuation 38.5dB
Noise Margin 19dB

Upstream
Connection Speed 724 Kbps
Attenuation 17.8dB
Noise Margin 11.3dB

On VDSL2 (ie FTTC) lines, the target "Noise Margin" (aka SNRM) starts out as 6dB. At every resync, the modem will then attempt to set a new speed in order to get the Noise Margin to 6dB.

If the modem displays an SNRM that is significantly higher than 6dB, like yours, then it is running slower than it theoretically could.

Why might it be running at such a high SNRM value?
1) You are synced at the maximum speed for your package (eg 40 down, 10 up)
2) The line was noisier, but it has gone away now.
3) DLM has intervened, and artificially set a slower speed limit.

You obviously haven't reached (1).
If the modem syncs to the same low speed every time you power cycle, then it isn't (2).

That leaves (3). DLM would likely intervene because it has seen lots of disconnections in a day, or lots of bit-errors.

And, unfortunately, things like electric fences can interfere with long-line rural broadband hugely. Especially if they are badly maintained. That kind of failure might happen to the neighbours, but your line might have a fault that makes it more susceptible too.

If the source of the problems has permanently disappeared, then a DLM reset could restore better speed. But if the problem still exists, or is turned on again after an absence, a DLM reset will only provide 48 hours of respite, before it starts to intervene again.

There is nothing you can do to trigger a DLM reset, nor Vodafone. It needs an Openreach engineer to attend.

However, if you've had lots of Openreach engineers attend, it is hard to believe that none of them has ever done a reset.

For you to do any analysis yourself, you need to monitor how the noise margin changes day-in, day-out, as much as possible. There are programs to do this, but I don't know they'd work with the Vodafone modem/router. Manually, you might want to check whether it changes significantly (by more than 1dB).

Likewise, you probably need to monitor the error rates; the brief snapshot you provided shows few faults in total, but it is important to know what happens to the counts over 24-hour periods.

Doh!!!! Turns out its VDSL2 if modem is reporting correctly

Stats look so ADSL2+ like though

Edited by MrSaffron (Fri 05-May-17 15:17:01)

Issue if you leave is that other providers will walk into the same scenario too, i.e. VDSL2 on very long lines is more hit and miss than ADSL2+

No idea what chipset the Vodafone modem uses, but another providers modem/router might perform better i.e. general rule is a Broadcom chipset works best for the majority of people on VDSL2

Man I've got acronyms coming out my ears...

If someone as knowledgeable as you is getting confused Andrew I don't feel quite so bad

I haven't been able to find out what chipset is in it, all I can find is that it is a Huawei HHG2500 with custom hardware. I've been trying to find some method of recording the SNR values but the only thing I've found so far is RouterStats and I can't get that to work so I suppose I'm going to have to fall back on the spreadsheet solution. If anyone knows of a different program that might work I'm all ears

Looks to be Broadcom based

That flagged up with me as soon as he said he was with Vodafone. I've never seen a new customer of theirs on ADSL2+, they all seem to be VDSL2. Seems they do still sell ADSL2+ but don't advertise it or make it an attractive option.

Edited by deleted (Fri 05-May-17 23:20:37)

I've been trying to get SNR values from my neighbours but neither of them have any idea what the password is to their router so a bit stuck on that.

In the meantime I've been monitoring it and it doesn't seem to be changing by more than 0.1 so I'd class that as stable. I've continued my search for some method of being able to log the values without having to manually log in to the router but no joy. I did however get a bit inspired by RouterStats and by a blog post from one of the team working on the new engine for FireFox. In that he creates his own 'toy' web browser which can only access local files and is absolutely minimal. I've decided to have a go at making my own which will only be able to access the IP for my router and use that to gather the data and log it. No doubt I will be into my second century of living before I get it to work but at least it will keep me occupied while waiting for a solution to my problem to be found.

For RouterStats or RouterStatsLite to work you need to enable telnet client in your internet options if you haven't already done so.

Rather than the full RouterStats I recommend RouterStatsLite and try the two Huawei entries in the selection list. Far simpler than the full version for most purposes.

Off top of head its around 80% on vdsl2 and 20% on adsl2+ based on what we see

Tried that as well RobertoS, no data. On the full version I get as far as trying to get the page but it only displays a couple of inputs which makes me think it is not managing to log me in. I've checked and Telnet is enabled.

I'd just like to say thanks to those who have been offering advice - if I could I'd buy you a beer

Just the one between them ?? Seems a little stingy.

Have you tried telnetting in from a command line prompt?

I assume you can see what the LAN address of your router is. If not, a command lin ipconfig /all will tell you it. (Gateway). 192.168... something.

telnet to that address, and log into the router just as you would the GUI.

I expect on the Huawei the stats command is

xdslctl info --stats

Possibly xdslcmd info --stats.

Or telnet may be blocked . Which you would find out immediately if it doesn't let you log in.

If you can get the stats this way then for ongoing use DSLStats should work for ongoing monitoring. Many of us use it for FTTC.

Just tried telnetting in and got told 'Could not open connection to the host on port 23; connect failed'

I've tried it specifying the user name as well with the same results. I'm assuming that means telnet is blocked by the router...

I've been waiting on a call from tech support at Vodafone but nothing. I'm now starting to get depressed by it all so I will probably have to drop it for a few days. Once again, thanks everyone for all the help and suggestions. You have been a solitary ray of brightness

Looks that way then . You'll only get more info by using a router of your own. IIRC there has been some discussion on these forums, the main problem being to get your internet login username and password from Vodafone.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

the main problem being to get your internet login username and password from Vodafone.

So there will be a choice...

1) A modem (or router/modem) that can sync, and tell us lots of statistics, but can't connect to Vodafone ... so there's no internet; or
2) The existing router/modem, which can connect to Vodafone, but can't tell us what is happening with the line.

That's a very limited use-case

In reply to a post by dewt:

3. Both my immediate neighbours are on standard broadband as am I.

Something doesn't add up here!

• OP says "standard" BB.
• Stats look ADSL BB.
• Yet Mode reported VDSL2 (G.993.5).

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 07-May-17 00:12:13)

First I apologise if I've misread your post but it sounds like you are accusing me of deliberately misleading the folks here. I'm not.
Some facts for you:
1. I'm not a broadband expert just a normal punter.
2. When I signed up with Vodafone I was given 2 choices - standard broadband or fibre broadband. I chose standard broadband. Vodafone decided to put me on fibre at the same cost as standard (I only found this out recently).
3. All the info I've given here has been at the request of other members using the methods suggested by them and is exactly the information that my router gave me.

I'm just trying to find out if I'm getting shafted or not. If that is not something the people here are willing to help with then just say so.

Edited by deleted (Sun 07-May-17 00:09:13)

What are the equivalent BT Broadband Availability Checker estimates for your neighbours? If you don't know their phone numbers, use the Address Checker, not the Postcode Checker.

1st Neighbour stats
2nd Neighbour

My advice is to just keep up complaining about this. Eventually, you will get the 'right' engineer who can fix it for you. When I moved to Plusnet fibre in February last year, it took six months and eighteen (yes 18!) Openreach visits, each from different 'engineers', to finally find the bad joint at the foot of the pole just across from the house. All sorts of other things had been done first, some of them multiple times. My connection is now moderately clean and stable (29Mbs), although it resets at random intervals which takes me off line for up to 10 minutes. These are often days or weeks apart.
Good luck with it.

Vodafone don't seem to do ADSL, at least not from my 20CN rural exchange.

http://oi64.tinypic.com/1zlaz2b.jpg

That'll be because it would have to be IPStream Connect, which means a whole new set of kit to rent from BTW at a node on top of the ADSL2+ (WBMC) links. For relatively few customers.

From the stats posted by the OP it seems (to me at least) that ADSL2 is available to the two neighbours.

Equally there is no sign of decent connection speeds for these addresses.

Is the issue that the neighbours are on ADSL2 whereas the OP is on VDSL2 ( a "fibre" FTTC connection) and the distance to the CAB is too large? The distance to the exchange is irrelevant for FTTC.

OP - do you believe that you are on a fibre FTTC connection? Are you paying for FTTC? The data from the router would indicate FTTC.

Are the neighbours also on FTTC? If not you cannot compare your connection with theirs.

Update on the situation:

I finally got a call from Vodafone Tech Support this evening. They were unaware that Openreach had replaced the faulty piece of cable last tuesday. Despite it being done in response to a ticket opened by them they had not been informed. I told the engineer at Vodafone that the concensus here was that I needed a reset done on the line by an Openreach engineer but he said he had to wait until he got official word from Openreach that the work had been done. He is not back in work until 09 Maywhen he will try to contact Openreach to find out what the situation is. I was right when I said I was in 'hurry up and wait' mode.

What a very confusing post. Note that my post you replied to was to Apprentice about what Vodafone do or do not supply at 20CN (non-WBC-enabled) exchanges.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

From the stats posted by the OP it seems (to me at least) that ADSL2 is available to the two neighbours.

Equally there is no sign of decent connection speeds for these addresses.

You mean the BT Wholesale estimates show ADSL2+ is available both to the OP and neighbours. ADSL2 and ADSL2+ are very different beasties. However, if ADSL2+ is available both ADSL2 and ADSL are also available.

Yes, the estimates are poor for all three of them, but the neighbours get a far higher speed.

Is the issue that the neighbours are on ADSL2 whereas the OP is on VDSL2 ( a "fibre" FTTC connection) and the distance to the CAB is too large?

That's a thought .

The distance to the exchange is irrelevant for FTTC.

I think I have been advising on FTTC for long enough to have demonstrated I know that. In fact I have posted such a high number of times.

OP - do you believe that you are on a fibre FTTC connection? Are you paying for FTTC? The data from the router would indicate FTTC.

Are the neighbours also on FTTC? If not you cannot compare your connection with theirs.

Asking the OP a question like that at the end of a post to me isn't a good idea. The "OP -" is easily missed. I certainly did on three or four rereads because of the way the human brain works. The data doesn't "indicate" it. It states it. And again, the point you make in your final paragraph is valid as an adjunct to your previous question.

Edit: I forgot to include - although your idea was good, the OP's noise margin of 19dB and attenuation of 38.5dB rule it out. The attenuation would be higher, and the noise margin around the normal 6dB.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 08-May-17 00:11:06)

Hmmm. They should have been notified, more likely that just got lost. Or the detail of what Openreach said doesn't get fed through to the screen that rep gets to see.

Also the DLM reset needs to be done at the time by the engineer fixing the fault. But the cable replacers were probably the wrong sort of engineer for doing that.

Messy. But fingers crossed for you.

Edited by RobertoS (Mon 08-May-17 00:12:09)

I have 2 fibre lines and my home, both from the same cabinet and one line is consistently 8-10Mbps faster than the other line regardless of routers and was the same before fibre was enabled!

In reply to a post by dewt:

Finally found those figures

Downstream
Connection Speed 2082 Kbps
Attenuation 38.5dB
Noise Margin 19dB

Upstream
Connection Speed 724 Kbps
Attenuation 17.8dB
Noise Margin 11.3dB

Do you by any chance turn your modem off at night/when you are out/etc?

If so don't, leave it on all the time. Turning it off makes DLM think it is unstable, which can cause issues.

In reply to a post by nemeth782:

Do you by any chance turn your modem off at night/when you are out/etc?

No, the router stays on at all times unless there is a power cut or a re-boot/reset is requested by tech support.

In reply to a post by greenglide:

From the stats posted by the OP it seems (to me at least) that ADSL2 is available to the two neighbours.

Equally there is no sign of decent connection speeds for these addresses.

Is the issue that the neighbours are on ADSL2 whereas the OP is on VDSL2 ( a "fibre" FTTC connection) and the distance to the CAB is too large? The distance to the exchange is irrelevant for FTTC.

OP - do you believe that you are on a fibre FTTC connection? Are you paying for FTTC? The data from the router would indicate FTTC.

Are the neighbours also on FTTC? If not you cannot compare your connection with theirs.

Prior to signing up with Vodafone I was with Sky and NOT on a fibre circuit. My speeds then were close to the same as now apart from the final few months when it dropped to around 0.5-1.0Mbps. They said everything was fine and that was the maximum my line could handle so I left.

When I signed up with Vodafone I signed up for their 'Standard' broadband not fibre and that is what I pay for. However I recently found out that from day one Vodafone had put me on fibre. Support staff at Vodafone told me they only have fibre capability in my area so that is what I got put on.

Regarding the distance from the cabinet being to large for a fibre connection - that is what an Openreach engineer said on one of the many visits I've had however when I spoke to BT to find what they would currently offer me they said my line was suitable for 'Faster Broadband' (ie FTTC) even after I had pointed out what the engineer had told me. They also offered a minimum speed of 3Mbps. That would indicate to me that BT at least believe that the distance to the cabinet is not too great for fibre and that I should be getting faster than I currently am.

'Faster Broadband' (ie FTTC) is what BT offer to lines where they expect sync speed to be less than 15 Meg. So, yes, BT at least do believe that the distance to the cabinet is not too great for fibre but they also believe it is too great for good fibre.

As XRaySpeX says, with a bit added.

BT sell two ranges of FTTC products. Infinity 1,2,3,4 and Faster Broadband with Fibre.

This is a marketing ploy, in fact a minor deception.

ASA rules are that the top speed advertised for a product has to be achieved by at least 10% of the users of that product. Which is why on FTTC all ISPs stopped advertising 80/20 when this rule was introduced. They all changed to 78/19.5, or 76/19, and 38/9.5. That sort of figure.

By removing all users with an estimate of below 15Mbps from the customer base it is easier to achieve a higher percentage reaching the headline speed. As far as I know all other ISPs include all FTTC customers in their average for advertising.

They can also put out TV ads saying Infinity is faster than all competitors. What they don't say in the adverts is "because we don't call the slow lines Infinity users". Bah!

I requested the neighbours' BT estimates expecting to see that the neighbours were more likely to be on ADSL but that hasn't proved to be the case.

The neighbours & OP all have similar Fibre estimates of upto 7 Meg, which fits with what the neighbours are reported as getting.

The neighbours are only estimated to get upto 3.5 Meg on ADSL, so they couldn't be on that.

The interesting thing is that the OP is estinated to get upto 6.5 Meg on ADSL, faster than is getting on fibre.

I can't see why Voda can't put OP on ADSL. They still resale BT lines, don't they?

Are the neighbours also on Voda?

P.S. BT knows the state of the cabling to the house; what they don't know is the state of the wiring within the house. So, from my own experience, I interpret BT estimates as the top of the Down Range as the expected speed with perfect house wiring & the Down Rate as the statistical average over all possible expected house wriring states.

I got a text from the tech support guy at Vodafone who is looking after this - he still hasn't heard from Openreach so is going to get in touch with them tomorrow. I also haven't received my copy of the letter from Openreach about the work being completed via my MP. Been over a week now since the work was done - time for another phone call later today.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

ASA rules are that the top speed advertised for a product has to be achieved by at least 10% of the users of that product. Which is why on FTTC all ISPs stopped advertising 80/20 when this rule was introduced. They all changed to 78/19.5, or 76/19, and 38/9.5. That sort of figure.

Just to show how bad I am at using search engines...what does 80/20 mean? Common sense would say something along the lines of 80Mbps downstream and 20Mbps upstream but that seems too simple.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

The interesting thing is that the OP is estinated to get upto 6.5 Meg on ADSL, faster than is getting on fibre.

I can't see why Voda can't put OP on ADSL. They still resale BT lines, don't they?

Are the neighbours also on Voda?

P.S. BT knows the state of the cabling to the house; what they don't know is the state of the wiring within the house. So, from my own experience, I interpret BT estimates as the top of the Down Range as the expected speed with perfect house wiring & the Down Rate as the statistical average over all possible expected house wriring states.

Both neighbours are with BT which is why I contacted them about possibly moving to them.

In reply to a post by dewt:

what does 80/20 mean? Common sense would say something along the lines of 80Mbps downstream and 20Mbps upstream but that seems too simple.

That's exactly what it means. These are the maximum sync speeds as measured by the router (not throughput by speedtests) that the BT FTTC product will achieve, subject to line distence from cab.

In reply to a post by RobertoS:

Hmmm. They should have been notified, more likely that just got lost. Or the detail of what Openreach said doesn't get fed through to the screen that rep gets to see.

Also the DLM reset needs to be done at the time by the engineer fixing the fault. But the cable replacers were probably the wrong sort of engineer for doing that.

Messy. But fingers crossed for you.

Text message from Vodafone tech support last night. They still haven't been notified and are going to try to get some info today.

In the meantime I got emailed a copy of the letter from Opemreach the body of which is below:

Dear Mr Rennie
 
I am very pleased to confirm that all work to replace the underground cable to Rhynd Farm Cottages has been completed.
 
I am very sorry that it has taken so long to resolve. Remedial work of this nature is normally completed quickly. Sadly in this case the complexity of the work, coupled with the issues over land ownership have delayed us.
 
Once again thank you for your patience during this period, and I trust that the matter is now concluded for you. If I have missed anything please let me know.

My MSP (Willie Rennie) has also said that if I want he will draft a letter to Vodafone to query what is happening - don't know if that is worth doing yet. In the meantime I've forwarded the email to the 2nd tier tech support at Vodafone.

Just had my line reset by Openreach. New stats from the router:


DSL Mode
VDSL G.993.5 (VDSL)
DSL status information
Line status Show Time
Link type Interleaved path
Bit rate
Downstream Upstream
Actual data rate 5301 (Kbps.) 1187 (Kbps.)
Operating data
Downstream Upstream
SNR Margin 7.4 dB 6.5 dB
Loop Attenuation 38.6 dB 17.9 dB
Error counter
Indicator name Downstream Upstream
FEC Corrections 0 1921380
CRC Error 0 0
Statistics
Transmitted Frames Received Frames
Frame Counter 44356 77230

The engineer that came this time had been here back in October last year and his jaw literally dropped when I told him that the repair had only just been done.

Now as long as I don't get too many drops I'm good Once again a serious amount of thanks to everyone here for the help, support, advice and just generally letting me blow of some steam.

you using the vodafone hhg2500 or whatever its called?

There is a discussion on kitz about this where the device is really unstable and has me thinking its why you syncing so low, maybe due to DLM intervention.

One user was stable on EE no problem, switched to vodafone, line got in a mess on DLM due to instability, he switched back to EE and all is good again.

Post deleted by XRaySpeX

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Oh, why didn't you show those full stats before? Now we can see the Loop Attenuation which shows you have a v. long line.

They were in here:
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/general/t/4544569-r...

Duh! Ah, OK! OP used 2 diff routers with diff terminology & I searched for "Loop Attenuation" .

Yeah, it gets a real slating on the Vodafone forum as well. Several people complaining about not being able to get their usernames and passwords so they can use their own kit and the response was that doing so would stop them from carrying out routine maintenance of the router by applying updates to firmware etc.

Surely if someone is using their own equipment then Vodafone are no longer responsible for maintaining the router so that doesn't come into play.

At the moment I'm getting 5.3Mbps download and 1.1Mbps upload but I've got a feeling that is going to start dropping - the last 30 mins has seen 6 dropped connections so I'm assuming that the DLM is going to start kicking in again.

The most recent call from the tech2 support said that it now seemed to be all good but that if the DLM cuts in again then there is nothing more they can do and my only option will be to terminate my contract early.

Well the dropped connections have continued and my speed has halved to 2.5Mbps with SNR Margin increasing to 10.6/11.1 so I'm now looking for a new ISP.


Quotes I've had so far are:
EE
Fibre 3.2Mbps (1.36 guaranteed)
ADSL2+ 4.0Mbps (1.0 guaranteed)

TalkTalk
Fibre Not available
ADSL2+ 2 - 6Mbps (1.8Mbps guaranteed)

Sky
Fibre 3.2 - 8Mbps (No guaranteed minimum)
ADSL2+ Not available

PlusNet
Fibre & ADSL2+ 3 - 7Mbps (1.5Mbps guaranteed)

BT
Fibre Not available
ADSL2+ 1 - 3.5Mbps (512k guaranteed)

Up until yesterday I was getting much better figures from BT (3Mbps guaranteed) so it looks like something is causing a problem. To be honest I don't know if it is worth all the hassle - I might just scap the internet completely. Only problem is that I do all my shopping and banking online (no transport) so that would mean a move into a town

What about a mobile dongle 4g?

Virtually no 4g (and not much better 3g) coverage in my area so unless I have my device sitting outside I've got no chance of that. Even voice calls on 2g can be highly variable depending on the weather.

The ranges from the suppliers are pretty much irrelevant - you will get whatever your line is capable of (with very small differences at those speeds dependent on which settings the supplier uses). Essentially it is not the ISP that defines your speeds and they have little control over it - it is down to what your line provided by Openreach can do and that doesn't change much between ISPs.

If you want faster you either need a change to the physical line (ie Openreach replacing parts of it, which they probably won't) or you would need to change technology.

Considered 2 lines and bonding/load balancing them?

Waste of time looking at estimates from individual ISPs. It'll be the same line from all of them, except Virgin. Might as well just rely on BT Availability Checker, which they all base on & then put their own spin on.

Only consideration can be price & reputation of support,

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Waste of time looking at estimates from individual ISPs. It'll be the same line from all of them, except Virgin. Might as well just rely on BT Availability Checker, which they all base on & then put their own spin on.

Only consideration can be price & reputation of support,

I agree that the line is the same for all of them but there are two other pieces of useful info that I got from those visits.
1. Exactly what packages they are willing to offer me.
2. What speed they are willing to guarantee.

After looking at the offerings/speeds I normally phone the company so I can get at least an indication of how they regard me. I make sure to fully explain to them the situation with the difference in speed between me and my neighbours so they can then adjust their offerings if they wish.

So far the only company that I've ruled out completely was Sky and that was because the person I spoke to said it was 'not Sky's policy to offer a guaranteed minimum speed' despite repeated requests from me - if I don't have a minimum value how can I (or anyone) determine if the contract is being met.

Had Vodafone been able to give me a stable speed of 3.5Mbps I would have been willing to accept that despite it being below the 4.16Mbps they initially stated.

I have considered getting a second line put in just to see if I get the same speed on that as on my current line or if I get similar to my neighbours. I'd never heard of 'load balancing' or bonding but having looked at it the costs put it out of my price range. I've also looked at satellite but again ruled it out on the basis of cost.

Just want to check you know that the "guaranteed speed" is not a guarantee that you will get that speed but could potentially be used to get out of the contract if you don't get it.

In reality you will get pretty much the same speed from all of them so if it isn't fast enough moving ISP won't resolve it.

Yeah, I know that bit - one of the few bits I fully understand about broadband

Any guaranteed min. speed will be so low as to be pointless. They don't want you to get outta contract.

Having spoken to Vodafone again they did a test of my router and confirmed that it was 'operating as expected' and there was nothing else they could do and I would be free to leave without penalty. They also told me that my line was showing I could get FTTP but only through BT. Gave them a call and was told (in no uncertain terms) that FTTP wasn't available to me from them - probably wouldn't have been able to afford it anyway

After a brief sulk and a spot of throwing my teddy bear in the corner I got back in touch with BT to chat about what they could offer me. Seems like I must have a bad effect on the sales reps there because it was a case of 'this is what you can have now either sign up or go away'. I went away - if that's the attitude of the sales staff I'm not sure I want to speak to the support staff.

More sulking and a spot of thumb sucking and I decided to check my speed results (JackDinns app running permanently on the laptop) and at 11:52 on 23/5/2017 my speed jumped from 2.5/0.857Mbps to 4.76/0.752Mbps. Picking myself up off the floor I called Vodafone again to see if they had done anything - nope. Since the jump in speed I've had 8 dropped connections most of which happened between 8-9pm on 23/5/2017. So I'm going to stay with Vodafone for the moment and keep monitoring it - hopefully it'll stay up there this time.