Silly FTTC question?

Hi, After waiting many years, our local cabinet has finally been upgraded to fibre. All the surrounding cabinets had been changed some time ago and I was happy to see my cabinet change.

Now my question is, since a fibre line now runs to my local cabinet, why doesn't my speed increase? I realise I have not signed up for a high speed fibre contract, but I was expecting some increase - sadly not!

Does my ADSL connection still go to the exchange over the original copper wires? Do I only get to use fibre optic lines if I switch? It seems odd that BT still want to maintain copper lines.

Nothing has changed on your ADSL connection - it is identical to what it was before. You have to sign up to FTTC to be able to get the benefit. At present the voice path still uses the old copper line to the exchange so couldn't be removed for anyone that also wants phone.

Does this mean that even if I sign up for a fibre contract my voice will still go over copper?

Yes the actual phone line does not change at all.

Yes, al that�s happened is a fibre fed DSLAM capable of higher speeds is now available for you to order service via IF you do wish. If you don�t order, you won�t get ...

We had fibre come into our village a few years back. If I'd stayed on ADSL even now I'd still be on about 1mb/s. Fibre is a totally different can of worms. If you're sat on top of the cabinet (or near to it) you can expect about 70mb/s plus.

But you do need to sign up for it.

Yes, fibre all the way would still be my preferred option (that copper wire is a pain for getting the max) but at the current pricing. Maybe in a decade or so.

BT are forced to keep the copper lines. Sky and TalkTalk need to make money from their ADSL equipment in the exchange.

Even if you are happy to swap to fibre, some future resident of your property may prefer a cheap-as-chips ADSL service, and Ofcom wants them to have the choice.

In reply to a post by WWWombat:

BT are forced to keep the copper lines. Sky and TalkTalk need to make money from their ADSL equipment in the exchange.

Even if you are happy to swap to fibre, some future resident of your property may prefer a cheap-as-chips ADSL service, and Ofcom wants them to have the choice.

While I agree with you, there is absolutely no reason why BTOR couldn't drop / remove the copper from the cab to the exchange.

For the phone they could modify the cabs to include FVA and use the copper from the cab to the home.
And for ADSL They could drop that and provide a similar speed via FTTC at the same price.

So the only cables from the exchange to the cabs that would need to be maintained would be fibre.

So it is possible, but doesn't mean it will happen though.

Paul

They did trial ADSL2+ from the cabinet but didn't proceed with it , probably because it was to compromised and to the detriment of other advances e.g. vectoring and LR-ADSL.
Instead of trying to preserve legacy xDSL OFCOM should be trying to promote their retirement.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

They did trial ADSL2+ from the cabinet but didn't proceed with it , probably because it was to compromised and to the detriment of other advances e.g. vectoring and LR-ADSL.
Instead of trying to preserve legacy xDSL OFCOM should be trying to promote their retirement.

I wasn't referring to the actual tech, I was just referring to the actual speed.

Say the customer was able to get the full Infinity 2 speeds, but they didn't require that speed or the speed of Infinity 1, but the speed of ADSL2+ (i.e. 21 to 24 Mbits) was fine.

It would still be using the VDSL2 Tech, but just capped at 21 to 24 Mbits.

That's was I was referring to.

As for getting rid of xDSL that would be an issue for loads of people that are just that too far from their cabinet to either get FTTC or their FTTC speeds are slower than their ADSLx speeds.
So dropping xDSL would be a bad thing to do at the moment, But I do agree at some point it should be dropped.

Paul

All technically possible, but since the fibre bypasses many smaller exchanges will TalkTalk and Sky be happy to be left with a couple of thousand now redundant DSLAM, plus the contracts they have for backhaul networks from the exchanges the fibre avoids.

In short its not what Openreach can technically do, its what does selling voice over copper and LLU ADSL2+ are happy to do.

The FTTC 18/2 product is a sort of ADSL replacement that has never gained any traction.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

While I agree with you, there is absolutely no reason why BTOR couldn't drop / remove the copper from the cab to the exchange.

Line testing? Everyone seems to forget the O&M activities...

That seems to be the main reason given for why SOGEA still needs a copper E-side: that the way to perform a copper test on the D-side needs a physical connection through the E-side.

And what about LLU operators? They are worried enough about stranded assets that they won't let LR-VDSL go ahead, so there's no chance for a generic removal of the right to connect over copper to their exchange-based equipment.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

For the phone they could modify the cabs to include FVA and use the copper from the cab to the home. And for ADSL They could drop that and provide a similar speed via FTTC at the same price.

How about the issue of capacity?

Some FTTC DSLAMs would need to be 2x or 3x bigger, if every line was going to be forced onto them.

Oh, and with every line on VDSL2 on the FTTC DSLAM, you just increased the issue of crosstalk. That might require vectoring to be added to all these larger DSLAMs too.

In reply to a post by PaulKirby:

So it is possible, but doesn't mean it will happen though.

Absolutely, it is possible. But we're a long way off a concerted effort to do this.

I do see a gradual swap to SOGEA over the time to 2025, and rather than naked DSL, I see this as being offered with FVA. Doing this allows BT to gradually degrade the capacity of their System-X and System-Y exchanges, as failures happen (they'll essentially fill their own "spares" store).

In the same timespan, we'll see an increase in capacity in the access network, either through G.Fast nodes, or through some gradual FTTP rollouts. Eventually, there'll be enough capacity out there, and (eventually too) Sky/TalkTalk will figure the need to decommission their ADSL kit. *Then* we'll see a shift.