New build strangeness

We're in the process of buying a new build house in a large village/small town. The development is being built behind an older one, and around half of it (including our house) will be on a continuation of an existing street - therefore the same postcode will cover both brand new houses and some built probably in the 1970s/80s. All the addresses have now been added to the relevant databases, so I can check product availability by address on both the availability checker and ISPs' ordering pages. There are some slightly puzzling inconsistencies.

Ignoring availability checkers and looking only at what ISPs will offer, I appear to be able to get Infinity 1 equivalent with ca 40Mbps expected, and to be able to order Infinity 2 equivalent but with only ca 44Mbps expected. Not ideal, but perfectly adequate.

The TBB availability checker is interesting in comparison to this:
LS25 6LT - Broadband Availability
Exchange Name South Milford Ate (MYSML)
Exchange Distance 3.08km
Classification Market B
Virgin Media Cable No not enabled
BT IPStream Max Yes enabled
BT WBC Yes enabled (estimated speed: 5 to 10 Mbps)
Openreach FTTC No not enabled
Openreach FTTP Yes enabled (estimated speed: over 200 Mbps)
Openreach G.fast No not enabled
TalkTalk LLU Yes enabled
Sky LLU Yes enabled

It appears not to be FTTC enabled at all. I assumed this might be down to outdated info, though it shows it as FTTP enabled which must have been more recent, but the BT availability checkers are also weird. I've compared the lowest and highest numbered houses on the street - no. 1 is an older house, no. 71 is a new build (and shows the same results as ours).

Address 1 FAIRFIELD LINK, SHERBURN IN ELMET, LEEDS, LS25 6LT on Exchange SOUTH MILFORD

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) WBC FTTP Availability Date FTTP Install Process
WBC FTTP Up to 330 Up to 50 -- Available 2 Stage

Apologies for the formatting. As expected this shows FTTP as available, but no FTTC.

Address 71 FAIRFIELD LINK, SHERBURN IN ELMET, LEEDS, LS25 6LT on Exchange SOUTH MILFORD is served by Cabinet 12

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps) WBC FTTC Availability Date WBC SOGEA Availability Date
VDSL Range A (Clean) 64.8 44 17.3 11.5 39.8 Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 52.2 32.4 14.7 7.9 27.1 Available --

Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps) Upstream Line Rate(Mbps) Downstream Range(Mbps) WBC FTTP Availability Date

FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --

This shows FTTC as available, but only FTTPoD unfortunately. I haven't seen a new cabinet anywhere for the new houses, and the existing cabinet is probably only around 20m from no. 1, but I assume from these results that there must be one.

A few questions.
- Am I correct that there must be a new cab hidden somewhere?
- Is it usual for FTTP to be deployed in an area where (some of) the cabs apparently aren't enabled for FTTC?
- How do OR FTTP rollouts work? I assume that because the rollout was done before the new development was completed that we've effectively missed that boat and FTTPoD is likely to be the only way forward. Or will OR potentially come back to complete the 'missed' area once development's complete?
- If they are likely to come back in the near future, what's BT's approach to contract tie-ins where a customer has FTTC through them and wants to upgrade to FTTP?
- In a situation where FTTP is available nearby, and OR have themselves recently installed cables to the new houses, presumably including the appropriate ducting etc, is an FTTPoD install likely to be relatively affordable?

Thanks for any enlightenment!

It seems the FTTP stops at numbers 17 on the odd side and 14 on the evens. As a pure guess Cabinet 12 will probably be nearer to No.1 than No. 17.

The FTTC cabinet will be close to (PCP) cabinet 12 and is not normally numbered. It is usually within 50 metres of its PCP and almost certainly within 80 metres. AIUI the maximum cable run between them including any spare length is 100 metres.

FTTC cabinets have louvres in the door.

Re:-

- Am I correct that there must be a new cab hidden somewhere?

Yes, the FTTC one as just stated.

- Is it usual for FTTP to be deployed in an area where (some of) the cabs apparently aren't enabled for FTTC?

In situations like yours, yes. Openreach would seem to have done a native FTTP installation in the first place for the existing houses, (which only had ADSLx or no broadband), but the developer of the new ones hasn't installed the infrastructure for it to be extended to them. Only copper. Though maybe he has provided FTTP-capable infrastructure but not paid for the fibre to be laid.

- How do OR FTTP rollouts work? I assume that because the rollout was done before the new development was completed that we've effectively missed that boat and FTTPoD is likely to be the only way forward. Or will OR potentially come back to complete the 'missed' area once development's complete?

First question - yes. Second question only when copper is finally retired unless someone pays for the FTTP extension before then.

- If they are likely to come back in the near future, what's BT's approach to contract tie-ins where a customer has FTTC through them and wants to upgrade to FTTP?

No idea sorry.

- In a situation where FTTP is available nearby, and OR have themselves recently installed cables to the new houses, presumably including the appropriate ducting etc, is an FTTPoD install likely to be relatively affordable?

I think it is the developer installs the ducting. Whether or not that can be used for FTTP I don't know, see above. I would guess not. It may depend on how the FTTP was supplied to the existing ones.

FTTP and FTTPoD are not deployed from the PCP, whereas the copper is. So the ducting for the FTTP doesn't start at the PCP, unlike the copper.

The FTTP on ours was for a smaller number of premises, so probably before your new build was added, so just bumped the number of premises in the postcode and turned off FTTP flag as that is not the majority anymore. This fix will roll in later tonight. If the new homes around Braeburn Road are same developer my money is on developer part funding, when they started back in 2016

PCP (Cabinet 12) https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.794521,-1.2475562,...

Cabinet went live with VDSL2 in June, possibly builder or community funded

Is it usual for FTTP to be deployed in an area where (some of) the cabs apparently aren't enabled for FTTC?
Define usual, have seen all sorts of combinations.

How do OR FTTP rollouts work?
If you want FTTP your current course is FoD and costs are variable.

They may come back between now and 2033 or someone else will to deliver FTTP given the ambition for 100% FTTP across UK

Only way to know on FoD is to get a quote, but honestly so many have asked for a quote that system is pretty broke.

Looking at the introduction date for postcodes in area, the developer was probably talking with Openreach 2015/2016 ahead of all the big push for FTTP, so went for the fashion as it was at the time

Developers usually install the ducting/chambers since its private land and then handed over to Openreach once checked as meeting spec

Agreed. It's also possible the new houses haven't been built by the same developer, so less likely to consider it.

Thank you both, you've cleared things up a lot. It figures that the builder's discussions with OR would have been in 2015 and FTTP wouldn't have been an obvious concern.

I may enquire about FTTPoD, potentially as a group or community request if there's enough interest, but it's not a huge priority for me. My bigger concern would have been not missing out on it if it was likely to become available.

I will go hunting for cabs next time I'm there though, I assume there must be a copper cab (12?) I've not seen with connected fibre cab. I also hadn't ever put two and two together about separate fibre cabs, despite walking past the pair near my current home most days.

Thanks again!

In his first post Mr Saffron posted a link to a 2009 still of the Cabinet 12 in question. At the top corner of Fairfield Link. The FTTC cab will be close, as I described.